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This seems like a much more advanced version of EOMA68, a compute card project re-using old PCMCIA connectors. I feel like USB-C gives much more flexibility: i

This seems like a much more advanced version of EOMA68, a compute card project re-using old PCMCIA connectors. I feel like USB-C gives much more flexibility: it has a well-defined configuration enumeration protocol that's already supported everywhere. There's a lot more options for extensibility and future-proofing with USB-C. With the onboard storage this is one step closer to my dream: the ability to plug a phone's compute module into a desktop to give me access to a more powerful GPU, extra storage, etc. My big question: will this card format be an open standard, or will Intel be locking it down?

zkms 10y ago
> re-using old PCI-express connectors. actually it's PCMCIA connectors (which have nothing to do with PCI express)
- mmastrac 10y ago
  Oops, typo - will fix.
nextos 10y ago
And less waste / nonsense. If you have an appliance, you'd typically like to upgrade it's computing module much more frequently than the envelope. A nice side-effect might be that interfaces become more open, and you can run e.g. whatever OS you like inside your smart cheese grater.
astrodust 10y ago
I'm starting to wonder if next-generation blade systems might not just have a bunch of USB-C connectors to act as a backplane. They provide power, data connectivity, external storage links and anything more. Small, self-contained modules like this could contain the CPU and whatever other components are best to have locally, like a small local SSD and memory.
- detaro 10y ago
  For blades I would expect mostly PCIe lanes to the outside. USB-C IMHO adds a lot of extras that are not needed for that use case.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    USB-C/TB can carry PCIe lanes, so it's mostly a matter of latency due to protocol overhead more than bandwidth.
    - detaro 10y ago
      Sure, but why would you add that overhead (both in latency and electronics needed) to transport e.g. 16 PCIe lanes over 4 USB connections just to then direct it to PCIe devices anyways, especially if those devices partially need more than 4 lanes? USB-C is a really cool solution, but a solution for the needs of laptops/other personal devices, not servers.
      - astrodust 10y ago
        Why would you add the overhead? * Dead simple design. * Easily hot-swappable without expensive proprietary connectors. * Low cost solution that provides adequate bandwidth. This isn't something that will perform better than a proper server with actual PCIe lanes, but it will perform better than a blade from two generations ago that didn't have that kind of backplane bandwidth and it will cost less to manufacture.
pfarnsworth 10y ago
I had the same idea about the phone years ago. I don't know why we can't just take our iPhone or (more likely) Android, plug it into a docking station and use that at work as a desktop, pick it up and use it as a smartphone, or dock it to something at home.
- sowpati 10y ago
  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the idea behind continuum in Windows 10?
  - cylo 10y ago
    That is indeed what continuum is. Right now it's limited by the fact that you can only run Universal Windows Apps (UWP) that support ARM. This is exactly why x86-emulation-on-ARM (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/x86-emulation-rumored-to-be-coming-to-windows-for-arm-in-late-2017/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/x86-em...) is a very exciting project from Microsoft. As mobile chips continue to improve, emulating x86 becomes a viable way of tapping into the huge Windows ecosystem of applications when not running on battery power. I think this is Microsoft's last shot of becoming relevant in the mobile space.
    - hyperpallium 10y ago
      Unfortunately, that ecosystem wasn't designed with small touchscreens in mind, nor battery efficiency...
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        Bring your own screen, keyboard, and power supply. Continuum is a weird beast, I'm not exactly sure who would get something out of it even if app support was good.
        shiftpgdn 10y ago
technofiend 10y ago
I like the idea of extensible and replaceable computers: I would be much less concerned about my fridge being an IOT device if the IOT component was an easily upgraded and replaced Intel atom or Qualcomm Snapdragon compute card. In terms of process migration I still think Google has missed a trick by not marrying Android and light-weight containers. If I could flick my wrist to send a phone process to my Chromebook, Android tablet, Andromeda device or smart TV life would be pretty interesting. Maybe one gesture for screen mirroring and another to move rather than mirror or copy the process. This would also open up new channels for malware sure but also cool things like trusted processes / data for authentication. You have an invitation to my party, you say? Dock it with my Google Home device which signed your invitation to prove it, then...
- hueving 10y ago
  >device which signed your invitation to prove it, then... Then you realize why nobody shows up to your parties. :P
  - technofiend 10y ago
    >>device which signed your invitation to prove it, then... >Then you realize why nobody shows up to your parties. :P Sure they do, but they're all hackers or cypherpunks. Listen all three of us had a great time. :-) :-) But seriously, wouldn't it be fun to host a party where everyone had to hack an invitation?
    - hueving 10y ago
      IIRC defcon does this with their badges.
- pveierland 10y ago
  We designed an architecture for replaceability during the summer for our UAV project. Our current architecture has been based on the Zynq-7000 which is a two ARM-core + FPGA SoC. Here we had custom logic for doing things such as controlling signals to the servos in the FPGA and then software drivers communicating with the FPGA through memory maps. This resulted in a tight coupling between the drivers on the compute platform and the IO hardware. Our next hardware generation will have a dedicated FPGA handling the communication with the GPS, IMU, servos. The compute platform will communicate with the FPGA over Ethernet. This means that all hardware drivers can be written against a network based interface, resulting in a loose coupling between the compute and IO. This means that both the IO hardware and compute hardware can be replaced individually without breaking the setup, and without having to rewrite any drivers. It also results in high transparency for debugging IO, with the possibility of easily recording and playing back a scenario. You can also test the full flight software on a developer's desktop machine during development without the embedded compute platform. As embedded compute platforms get better all the time, while the IO stays more stable, this will make it easy to replace the compute every 2-3 years.
djsumdog 10y ago
Unless I missed it, I don't see any info on how it boots. Does it have UEFI? Is it a standard PC? Where Intel can win is if a standard x86 Linux distribution could boot off of this with little modification. Right now in the ARM world, unless your device supports device tree configuration, kernels are highly customized per device.
digi_owl 10y ago
EOMA68 gets me thinking about those Compaq Ipaqs that could be fitted with a sleeve (i think Compaq referred to them as jackets) with a PCMCIA slot. One use of all this was to turn the Ipaq PDA into a mobile phone.

zkms 10y ago

> re-using old PCI-express connectors. actually it's PCMCIA connectors (which have nothing to do with PCI express)

mmastrac 10y ago
Oops, typo - will fix.

nextos 10y ago

And less waste / nonsense. If you have an appliance, you'd typically like to upgrade it's computing module much more frequently than the envelope. A nice side-effect might be that interfaces become more open, and you can run e.g. whatever OS you like inside your smart cheese grater.

astrodust 10y ago

I'm starting to wonder if next-generation blade systems might not just have a bunch of USB-C connectors to act as a backplane. They provide power, data connectivity, external storage links and anything more. Small, self-contained modules like this could contain the CPU and whatever other components are best to have locally, like a small local SSD and memory.

detaro 10y ago
For blades I would expect mostly PCIe lanes to the outside. USB-C IMHO adds a lot of extras that are not needed for that use case.
- astrodust 10y ago
  USB-C/TB can carry PCIe lanes, so it's mostly a matter of latency due to protocol overhead more than bandwidth.
  - detaro 10y ago
    Sure, but why would you add that overhead (both in latency and electronics needed) to transport e.g. 16 PCIe lanes over 4 USB connections just to then direct it to PCIe devices anyways, especially if those devices partially need more than 4 lanes? USB-C is a really cool solution, but a solution for the needs of laptops/other personal devices, not servers.
    - astrodust 10y ago
      Why would you add the overhead? * Dead simple design. * Easily hot-swappable without expensive proprietary connectors. * Low cost solution that provides adequate bandwidth. This isn't something that will perform better than a proper server with actual PCIe lanes, but it will perform better than a blade from two generations ago that didn't have that kind of backplane bandwidth and it will cost less to manufacture.

pfarnsworth 10y ago

I had the same idea about the phone years ago. I don't know why we can't just take our iPhone or (more likely) Android, plug it into a docking station and use that at work as a desktop, pick it up and use it as a smartphone, or dock it to something at home.

sowpati 10y ago
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the idea behind continuum in Windows 10?
- cylo 10y ago
  That is indeed what continuum is. Right now it's limited by the fact that you can only run Universal Windows Apps (UWP) that support ARM. This is exactly why x86-emulation-on-ARM (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/x86-emulation-rumored-to-be-coming-to-windows-for-arm-in-late-2017/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/x86-em...) is a very exciting project from Microsoft. As mobile chips continue to improve, emulating x86 becomes a viable way of tapping into the huge Windows ecosystem of applications when not running on battery power. I think this is Microsoft's last shot of becoming relevant in the mobile space.
  - hyperpallium 10y ago
    Unfortunately, that ecosystem wasn't designed with small touchscreens in mind, nor battery efficiency...
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      Bring your own screen, keyboard, and power supply. Continuum is a weird beast, I'm not exactly sure who would get something out of it even if app support was good.
      - shiftpgdn 10y ago

technofiend 10y ago

I like the idea of extensible and replaceable computers: I would be much less concerned about my fridge being an IOT device if the IOT component was an easily upgraded and replaced Intel atom or Qualcomm Snapdragon compute card. In terms of process migration I still think Google has missed a trick by not marrying Android and light-weight containers. If I could flick my wrist to send a phone process to my Chromebook, Android tablet, Andromeda device or smart TV life would be pretty interesting. Maybe one gesture for screen mirroring and another to move rather than mirror or copy the process. This would also open up new channels for malware sure but also cool things like trusted processes / data for authentication. You have an invitation to my party, you say? Dock it with my Google Home device which signed your invitation to prove it, then...

hueving 10y ago
>device which signed your invitation to prove it, then... Then you realize why nobody shows up to your parties. :P
- technofiend 10y ago
  >>device which signed your invitation to prove it, then... >Then you realize why nobody shows up to your parties. :P Sure they do, but they're all hackers or cypherpunks. Listen all three of us had a great time. :-) :-) But seriously, wouldn't it be fun to host a party where everyone had to hack an invitation?
  - hueving 10y ago
    IIRC defcon does this with their badges.
pveierland 10y ago
We designed an architecture for replaceability during the summer for our UAV project. Our current architecture has been based on the Zynq-7000 which is a two ARM-core + FPGA SoC. Here we had custom logic for doing things such as controlling signals to the servos in the FPGA and then software drivers communicating with the FPGA through memory maps. This resulted in a tight coupling between the drivers on the compute platform and the IO hardware. Our next hardware generation will have a dedicated FPGA handling the communication with the GPS, IMU, servos. The compute platform will communicate with the FPGA over Ethernet. This means that all hardware drivers can be written against a network based interface, resulting in a loose coupling between the compute and IO. This means that both the IO hardware and compute hardware can be replaced individually without breaking the setup, and without having to rewrite any drivers. It also results in high transparency for debugging IO, with the possibility of easily recording and playing back a scenario. You can also test the full flight software on a developer's desktop machine during development without the embedded compute platform. As embedded compute platforms get better all the time, while the IO stays more stable, this will make it easy to replace the compute every 2-3 years.

djsumdog 10y ago

Unless I missed it, I don't see any info on how it boots. Does it have UEFI? Is it a standard PC? Where Intel can win is if a standard x86 Linux distribution could boot off of this with little modification. Right now in the ARM world, unless your device supports device tree configuration, kernels are highly customized per device.

digi_owl 10y ago

EOMA68 gets me thinking about those Compaq Ipaqs that could be fitted with a sleeve (i think Compaq referred to them as jackets) with a PCMCIA slot. One use of all this was to turn the Ipaq PDA into a mobile phone.