4 ms·

Emirates may have the best wine selection for those who want to spend thousands getting from A to B, but I find the longer Ukraine International Airlines flight

Emirates may have the best wine selection for those who want to spend thousands getting from A to B, but I find the longer Ukraine International Airlines flights have the best drinks for the average person. I've taken several in the past few months, and the flights are not only inexpensive but the drinks on board are very cheap or free. Of course, some of this is owing to the depressed hryvnia. For those that wish to spend a little more, but not anywhere near Emirates levels (and for those who are scared by flying over Iraq, which was definitely an experience) KLM often has inexpensive flights with fantastic service, even in economy. Not as good as Emirates of course, but still somewhat inexpensive.

df3 10y ago
All of my KLM flights have been a great experience. Very friendly staff, awesome service, and free drinks. After doing a lot of flying the last two years I've realized what a difference a friendly crew makes.
kirykl 10y ago
which flights are over Iraq?
- owenversteeg 10y ago
  I flew Kyiv Borispol (Ukraine, KBP) to Tehran (Iran, IKA) recently, and our flight went over the northeast tip of Iraq. Normally the flight (Ukraine 751) flies close, but not over, Iraq - around 33 miles from the border [0]. In my case, however, because of harsh weather we went over Iraq for a bit, which was definitely interesting. I know Iraqi airspace isn't the same as Syrian airspace, but it's definitely pretty damn scary being a few minutes' flying time from ISIS strongholds. [0] https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AUI751/history/20170104/1750Z/UKBB/OIIE https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AUI751/history/20170104/...
  - smcl 10y ago
    I flew London -> Dubai with Emirates flew years back and I was pretty pleased to see that we over pretty much the length of Iraq. You're a few dozen thousand feet up on a route that's followed many times per day - I don't think it's particularly dangerous.
    - owenversteeg 10y ago
      Unfortunately Iraq's situation tends to go from bad (but acceptable to fly over) to very bad (when you don't want to fly over it.) Currently, Emirates does not fly over Iraq for Emirates 30 (LHR-DXB), instead choosing to pay the higher fees of the Iranian government and fly over Iranian airspace. The vast majority of airlines have stopped flying over Iran, and nobody is crazy enough to fly over Mosul, which is ISIS controlled, which was a few minutes' flight time from where I was. Interestingly, Emirates delayed switching most flights from flying over Iraq to flying over Iran until 2015 because of the higher costs for flying over Iran, which is why you get a lot of people (like you) that flew over Iraq. Flying is a lot more complex than most people realize.
      - smcl 10y ago
        Ah yes - my flight would be definitely have been pre-ISIS. I distinctly remember seeing Mosul, Baghdad and Basra "nearby" on the in-flight map
dgudkov 10y ago
Among European airlines it's hard to beat Air France in terms of food and wine quality. They are head and shoulders above anyone else when it comes to catering, even in the economy class. Although, my experience with Ukrainian Airlines and KLM is similar to yours -- meals and wine are surprisingly good.
kylehotchkiss 10y ago
My understanding is that they currently deliberately avoid Iraq (my dc-dubai flight in sept did), in favor of flying over Iran for many western flights. Airlines do this often (look up tel aviv to mumbai on flightaware for a fun flight path... or any flights from azeribaijan enclave to capital, or dubai-yerevan, these routes are loaded with geopolitics)
- owenversteeg 10y ago
  Yep - even Eastern carriers are doing that now. My comment downthread has more on my personal experience [0]. El Al 73, 50% longer than it "should" be because of a detour around Saudi Arabia: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ELY73/history/20161230/0315Z/LLBG/VABB https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ELY73/history/20161230/0... Azerbaijan Airlines J2261 doesn't seem to be that much longer, even though it has to avoid the Karabakh region. (At first I thought you were referencing the Ստեփանակերտի Օդանավակայան/Stepanakert Airport, which interestingly has no IATA code.) Dubai to Yerevan doesn't seem that geopolitically complicated though - seems to fly just over Iran mostly. I guess the end of the flight could get tricky though, with Armenia saying that Azerbaijan would shoot down Armenian planes that go over Azerbaijan. The flight I found is FDB715, https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDB715/history/20170103/0755Z/OMDB/UDYZ https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDB715/history/20170103/... [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13331458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13331458
  - kylehotchkiss 10y ago
    I'm surprised you can fly into Stepanakert! If I had to go there, I'd take a car Thanks for the data here, these are really interesting concepts because of how abstracted they are. I would think many passengers don't realize these types of choices are made by airlines on a daily basis.
    - owenversteeg 10y ago
      Hah, you actually can't. The airport is closed, since the chance of any flight there being shot down is very high (although the director of the airport said there would be flights in a matter of months... in 2011) And you're very welcome! I love looking at these maps. I fly a bunch and it's only in the past three months or so that I've really been considering the strange routes that people fly.
wodenokoto 10y ago
Economy class with emirates is quite cheap. I've flown with them several times from Europe to Asia on account of it being the cheapest ticket available. They offer free drinks and staff is very friendly. It is quite a detour though.

df3 10y ago

All of my KLM flights have been a great experience. Very friendly staff, awesome service, and free drinks. After doing a lot of flying the last two years I've realized what a difference a friendly crew makes.

kirykl 10y ago

which flights are over Iraq?

owenversteeg 10y ago
I flew Kyiv Borispol (Ukraine, KBP) to Tehran (Iran, IKA) recently, and our flight went over the northeast tip of Iraq. Normally the flight (Ukraine 751) flies close, but not over, Iraq - around 33 miles from the border [0]. In my case, however, because of harsh weather we went over Iraq for a bit, which was definitely interesting. I know Iraqi airspace isn't the same as Syrian airspace, but it's definitely pretty damn scary being a few minutes' flying time from ISIS strongholds. [0] https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AUI751/history/20170104/1750Z/UKBB/OIIE https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AUI751/history/20170104/...
- smcl 10y ago
  I flew London -> Dubai with Emirates flew years back and I was pretty pleased to see that we over pretty much the length of Iraq. You're a few dozen thousand feet up on a route that's followed many times per day - I don't think it's particularly dangerous.
  - owenversteeg 10y ago
    Unfortunately Iraq's situation tends to go from bad (but acceptable to fly over) to very bad (when you don't want to fly over it.) Currently, Emirates does not fly over Iraq for Emirates 30 (LHR-DXB), instead choosing to pay the higher fees of the Iranian government and fly over Iranian airspace. The vast majority of airlines have stopped flying over Iran, and nobody is crazy enough to fly over Mosul, which is ISIS controlled, which was a few minutes' flight time from where I was. Interestingly, Emirates delayed switching most flights from flying over Iraq to flying over Iran until 2015 because of the higher costs for flying over Iran, which is why you get a lot of people (like you) that flew over Iraq. Flying is a lot more complex than most people realize.
    - smcl 10y ago
      Ah yes - my flight would be definitely have been pre-ISIS. I distinctly remember seeing Mosul, Baghdad and Basra "nearby" on the in-flight map

dgudkov 10y ago

Among European airlines it's hard to beat Air France in terms of food and wine quality. They are head and shoulders above anyone else when it comes to catering, even in the economy class. Although, my experience with Ukrainian Airlines and KLM is similar to yours -- meals and wine are surprisingly good.

kylehotchkiss 10y ago

My understanding is that they currently deliberately avoid Iraq (my dc-dubai flight in sept did), in favor of flying over Iran for many western flights. Airlines do this often (look up tel aviv to mumbai on flightaware for a fun flight path... or any flights from azeribaijan enclave to capital, or dubai-yerevan, these routes are loaded with geopolitics)

owenversteeg 10y ago
Yep - even Eastern carriers are doing that now. My comment downthread has more on my personal experience [0]. El Al 73, 50% longer than it "should" be because of a detour around Saudi Arabia: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ELY73/history/20161230/0315Z/LLBG/VABB https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ELY73/history/20161230/0... Azerbaijan Airlines J2261 doesn't seem to be that much longer, even though it has to avoid the Karabakh region. (At first I thought you were referencing the Ստեփանակերտի Օդանավակայան/Stepanakert Airport, which interestingly has no IATA code.) Dubai to Yerevan doesn't seem that geopolitically complicated though - seems to fly just over Iran mostly. I guess the end of the flight could get tricky though, with Armenia saying that Azerbaijan would shoot down Armenian planes that go over Azerbaijan. The flight I found is FDB715, https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDB715/history/20170103/0755Z/OMDB/UDYZ https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDB715/history/20170103/... [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13331458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13331458
- kylehotchkiss 10y ago
  I'm surprised you can fly into Stepanakert! If I had to go there, I'd take a car Thanks for the data here, these are really interesting concepts because of how abstracted they are. I would think many passengers don't realize these types of choices are made by airlines on a daily basis.
  - owenversteeg 10y ago
    Hah, you actually can't. The airport is closed, since the chance of any flight there being shot down is very high (although the director of the airport said there would be flights in a matter of months... in 2011) And you're very welcome! I love looking at these maps. I fly a bunch and it's only in the past three months or so that I've really been considering the strange routes that people fly.

wodenokoto 10y ago

Economy class with emirates is quite cheap. I've flown with them several times from Europe to Asia on account of it being the cheapest ticket available. They offer free drinks and staff is very friendly. It is quite a detour though.