14 ms·

Learning to code at 56

296 points by sconxu 10y ago

hd4 10y ago
As long as you still have a working memory, you can learn anything at any age, I don't go along with this 'old-dog-can't-learn-new-tricks' thinking. Though obviously when you're younger it's markedly easier to pick up a new skill.
- johansch 10y ago
  It does take longer for many people to learn new things when they are 50-60 though. I do think we have to be realistic about the issue that many people who learned and performed complex intellectual skills in their 20s/30s no longer perform this kind of ability to pivot in their 50s/60s; to learn a new craft that depends on learning a lot of new information/skills. Of course this doesn't mean that all people in their 50s/60s are like this. Like this post illustrates.
  - Baeocystin 10y ago
    Speaking as a 43-year old, while I do have some health issues that I didn't have in my 20's, perhaps somewhat surprisingly, I find learning new things as easy as it's ever been. And I honestly don't think I am unusual in that regard. I have a much wider framework of accumulated knowledge than I did 20 years ago, and leveraging that, I can see how wider parts of systems interrelate with a clarity that I never came close to touching in my youth. Perhaps this too will fade in another 20 years, but so far I'm actually enjoying having a middle-aged mind. I can accomplish so much more than I could before.
    - BatFastard 10y ago
      As a person in the 50-60 year range, I can say that learning new things is a mixed bag for me. When I was young I was like Velcro, throw information at me and it stuck. Now only the important information stays with me. I wish I could have learned that in my twenties. I would not have a head full of useless information... One advantage of being older is I tend to have a more seasoned perspective of what's important and whats not important in the long run.
      - pc86 10y ago
        Whose definition of important? :)
        BatFastard 10y ago
        Everyone has their own definition of important. I would like to think that after writing software for 30 years I have a decent knowledge of what my customers value. So for me, reliability, scalability, and ease of use are more important than whether a language supports tail recursion and dynamic typing.
        Baeocystin 10y ago
        I certainly agree with you there. Cutting the Gordian Knot of overly-complex software salad, and deploying only what my customer needs, while keeping it simple and robust, is how I pay my bills.
    - pier25 10y ago
      I'm 37 and I find that I'm smarter and wiser now than I was in my 20s which makes learning much easier even if my brain is almost double the age.
      - johansch 10y ago
        Please report back in 20 years from now. :)
        pier25 10y ago
        RemindMe! Twenty Years
      - jharger 10y ago
        I'm about the same age and feel the same way. In my 20's I would actually avoid learning something because "I know that stuff already" (Spoiler: I didn't) Now I'm thirsty for new knowledge, and much more willing to admit when I don't know something.
      - Brockenstein 10y ago
        Well 37 isn't really that old. The difference between you and a 20 year old might be measurable, but negligible, when it comes to pure learning. IE you're both learning a task, subject, skill neither of you has knowledge or experience about. Clearly experience and knowledge has great value, and coupled with any normal sort of learning ability is a solid combination that is superior to increased learning alone. After all small children can learn amazingly fast compared to adults. But without knowledge and experience to see how to use what they learn or how to combine it to get new ideas they're at a disadvantage. I mean as a software developer at 35 I know a lot more than I did at 20. I was able to learn pretty quick back then, starting from scratch. I can learn pretty quick now. But with the advantage of knowledge and experience, I'm really only learning a couple of new things at a time to add to an already immense store of knowledge, so yeah it's easy. One new thing and I can see right where it fits into my existing knowledge. It's kind of a different ballgame now compared to when I was 20 when I was still getting a handle on the basics.
    - epalmer 10y ago
      Baeocystin - I fit that bill. I am 63. I can learn still but my ability grasp really complex random info has fallen off. My ability to learn info that I am passionate about not so much. I have learned what I can learn and how to learn. In college I could retain a lot for a little time period. Today my short term memory for syntax is not so good. In the book dyslexic advantage[1] they state that dyslexic's short term memory is not as good as the general population but our conceptual memory / ability to visualize is heightened. I am dyslexic and find this to be true. So I learn concepts and thank google every day for syntax. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Dyslexic-Advantage-Unlocking-Hidden-Potential/dp/0452297923/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483634103&sr=8-1&keywords=dyslexic+advantage https://www.amazon.com/Dyslexic-Advantage-Unlocking-Hidden-P... Also Baeocystin I like your HN handle. Edit: Typo Added link to dyslexic advantage
      - Baeocystin 10y ago
        Cheers, my fun guy friend! :D I think the 'learning how to learn' skill is possibly the most important one a person can possess, but by its very nature, it isn't something that comes without long practice. I know I can think of how I approached study in my late teens/early 20's with a shiver at my poor choices. I do IT work for small business owners. One of the things that I've noticed over the years is that the number of successful small businesses that are run by dyslexics is much higher than you would expect from the %/population numbers. And it is clear to me that it is their ability to conceptualize what the business needs, visualize how to move forward, and (perhaps most importantly) comfort in delegating tasks that plays a large role in their success. Which works well for me, too. I may not be dyslexic, but I quite enjoy their work style.
        epalmer 10y ago
        Yes. Turns out I founded, ran and sold two small businesses. I've seen alot of dyslexics in small businesses. Edit: typo
    - Brockenstein 10y ago
      I'm not saying you're wrong and 43 is still fairly young (I'm only 35) so it's possible even if there was a difference that it could still be negligible and there's all sorts variables that go into how well people learn as they get older. But you could be wrong. Can you really accurately track how well you learn on a day to day basis over a lifetime? Doubtful. Even if you could really only learn 85% as well as you did when you were 20 it would be a measurable difference objectively. But subjectively that decline would be so minimal from one day to the next you would have a hard time noticing the decline. And since you still feel sharp at 43, and you felt sharp at 20, well nothing has changed, even though it clearly has. Also some people just lie to themselves about how capable they (still) are. If you've ever dealt with an aging relative who was losing their vision but resistant to giving up driving. Or in the beginning stages of dementia but was in denial about it. Human beings will generally do anything to avoid admitting declining abilities of any sort. Or they will temper an admission with a but of some sort. It's just part of the experience. You bring up a point about experience. Knowledge and experience have value too, obviously. After all young children can learn faster than adults period, but they don't know anything yet, and that's a disadvantage. And being able to learn a little bit better isn't so attractive that you'd be willing to give up all your accumulated experience. I wouldn't either. But I am sure I can share that experience with a 20 something with no knowledge about software development and they'll pick it up much faster than my 60 something mother with no knowledge and software development. And that's where the learning bit comes in. And learning one more thing in a subject you're already an expert in, isn't really a tall order. Starting from scratch, like most children or young adults have to do is a greater feat and put on the same playing field, in a subject where you really have no experience or expertise, you might find the competition a little stiffer than you remember it being than when you were a kid. Still at 43 you're still young, but at 53? 63? 73? At some point there will probably be some obvious differences in your abilities that just become more stark as you age, even if you fare amazingly well against your peers in the same age group. Research that seems to support that people who spend a lot of energy on learning and thinking and doing mentally demanding activities do better cognitively in their old age. I hope it's true, and specifically I hope it's true in my case. If age hasn't proven to be an impediment for learning yet I just wouldn't worry about it. And even if things get tougher to learn as you get older it's not boolean, you can still learn things if you put the effort in, if you still want to learn it. Being less capable != incapable. This isn't a scenario where any position other than #1 is tied with last place, or first place loser, or any other sort of trope you want.
    - geoelectric 10y ago
      44. My memory is definitely a little worse than when young, and I think I've probably slowed down somewhat in the absolute sense. But I also have 21 years of experience to build on, which is quite the accelerator. New tech is frequently old concepts applied in a new way. Once you recognize those core concepts and can find older analogies, you're way ahead. In the end it's a net gain.
  - lordnacho 10y ago
    How much of it is age, and how much of it is having kids along with an established routine? I find it pretty easy to learn things, just not when I'm interrupted by the kids. There's no reason why at 36 I can't listen to lectures about philosophy or read a bit about some new tech. What's hard is getting focused time to do a proper project, because my time outside of work hours is taken up by parenting.
    - Dotnaught 10y ago
      Lack of uninterrupted time for learning and experimentation is a real issue if you have a family. I ended up paying to attend a General Assembly JavaScript class recently because while I could easily have learned the material on my own for free, I couldn't guarantee having regular blocks of time to engage with the material otherwise.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    "I think we have to be realistic about" is, whether you intend it or not, an attempt to reframe the discussion around your particular set of priors. We need to be careful about language like that. There are many reasons to challenge the assumption that it's difficult for older people to learn to code: * It's may not be valid to extrapolate from more general neuroplasticity findings to programming * It may be that changes in neuroplasticity affect the effectiveness of different modalities of learning, so that it's not so much that it's harder for older people to learn coding, but that they might need to use different strategies to learn --- for instance, 20 year olds might be able to get away with rote memorization as a crutch, and older adults might need to use more authentic learning strategies * It's also possible that for large numbers of adults, learning to code is easier, because their brains have been trained through work they've done throughout their careers * It's also the case that there isn't one "programming", but rather a whole constellation of different skills, some of which reward an orientation towards organization and careful planning, some of which reward tenacity, some of which reward creative and intuitive thinking, some of which reward numeracy, and so on We should be very careful about generalizing, because one thing we do know is that human brains have incredibly powerful cognitive biases that are working constantly to fill in the blanks in our knowledge --- particularly about our models of the behavior and capabilities of other humans --- and much of what it fills in is accurate only up to the point where it allows us to effectively collect berries and hunt gazelles and stuff. For whatever it's worth: I'm 40, not 50, but the tempo at which I've been learning new things is accelerating, not decelerating: I work in more languages now, I work in more problem domains (for instance, I never used to do any front-end work), and in particular my math --- which has always been awful --- has been improving by leaps and bounds. Maybe things will suddenly suck for me when I turn 50, but the current trends are not worrying me.
    - conistonwater 10y ago
      I'm skeptical of arguments based on neuroplasticity or learning styles for the following reason. Given how good people are at learning in general (it is the evolutionary advantage that humans have), it would in fact be extremely surprising if there was anything short of an illness that shut down somebody's ability to learn things. Thus ability to learn things, even when one is older, doesn't need an explanation, whereas inability to learn things does.
- facepalm 10y ago
  I think programming is comparatively easy to learn. I sometimes wish I had become a physician, but I don't think trying to learn that by myself (or in 21 days or whatever) would be a good idea. With coding, a single good programming book for about 30$ can get you a long way...
  - superplussed 10y ago
    I agree, programming is easier to learn than so many other things because of the short feedback loop, the available resources, and the willingness of those who are experienced to talk about what they've learned.
- wvenable 10y ago
  A big issue I have now is simply time; I think I could easily pick up new things (probably faster) but I no longer have the idle time to do it. You can learn anything but at some point you start prioritizing.
the_jp 10y ago
Great attitude, someone hire this guy. :)
johansch 10y ago
Well, that plan does sound plausible. Seems smart and social enough to get a good job in development. And on top of that he is quite good at writing. Maybe that's something - in combination with programming skills - he could focus on, career-wise...
mfukar 10y ago
bootcamps - the best way of driving both wages and software quality down
- gravypod 10y ago
  I don't think bootcamps turn out lower quality developers and I don't think they will drive wages down. Currently they are web focused but I think the bootcamp style is far better at teaching programming/computer information then the current university enviroment. We might well see a bootcamp one day that does cover a different spectrum of computing then currently dominated by such schools (Realtime/Trading/Firmware/Embeded/DSP).
  - cholantesh 10y ago
    >We might well see a bootcamp one day that does cover a different spectrum of computing then currently dominated by such schools (Realtime/Trading/Firmware/Embeded/DSP). Most of those fields seem pretty advanced (can't speak for DSP or trading, but realtime and embedded software both seem fairly intimidating to me). Do you feel that someone totally green to software would be able to ramp up in the time advertised by the average bootcamp (2-3 months)?
- JackFr 10y ago
  credentialism - the best way of inflating wages with artificial scarcity,
  - treehau5 10y ago
    why is it artificial? Credentials are everywhere. You need credentials to be an account, a physician, a teacher, a lawyer, a dentist, a chiropractor, a (insert various iteration of crazy welding techniques) welder, a steel fabricator (AISC), a child services worker, heavy machinery operator, if you are an engineer and want to work for the public, you have to get licensed, and the list can go on and on. And I am really, really thankful that the above jobs require credentials.
    - 10y ago
webwanderings 10y ago
This appears to be an Ad for free code camp (not that there's anything wrong with that). Just ten years younger in a similar boat, I'm neither taking a boot camp, nor writing about my "CIS". To each their own. Learning is a life long activity. It shouldn't matter what one learns at any age.
- jameskegel 10y ago
  Maybe I'm having trouble parsing your comment, but it is not readily apparent if you're critical or in support of the post. Could you clarify your statement?
  - dualogy 10y ago
    Maybe he's just sharing first-thoughts.. not everyone feels compelled to immediately decide on their lightning-quick "critical/supportive" judgment as a top priority. Especially our seasoned "best-agers"!! =)
- grok2 10y ago
  Perhaps it really is an ad, but if it is real, I am impressed that the person thinks at 56, he has enough runway in life to make a serious contribution by coding :-)...I like that attitude.
  - mgkimsal 10y ago
    why wouldn't he? plenty of folks much younger than me have made 'serious contributions' in far less time than I have.
    - grok2 10y ago
      I'm growing old too and I find it hard to motivate myself to take up new things that are very long term -- somedays I wonder what is the point in learning a new programming language or framework and I am nowhere as old as him. Which is why I liked his attitude. It's refreshing and inspiring.
superplussed 10y ago
Obviously things are going to be tough as a 50s junior developer, but it sounds like you are up for the challenge. And hey, we all have to do something with the time we are here. It might as well be something you enjoy, challenges be damned.
- counterplex 10y ago
  I'd imagine by your 50s you'd have already learned the right attitude to succeed at anything: do the best you can, ask for help often and speak up right away when scope explodes! This makes things easier, not more difficult.
  - kbart 10y ago
    Attitude is not the problem here, getting a job is. Few acquaintances of mine in their thirties also try to jump this developer bandwagon and it's very hard to get a junior position for them, because they are "too old" (of course, nobody says that directly). Actually, they started to get interviews only after had hidden years in their CVs (as per mine advice).
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      Which is quite funny when you consider many of us are using technology that is only a few years old and we are constantly told we shouldn't stop learning to have a career in programming.
weakeyesforit 10y ago
At my age the main problem is that I read a lot in a computer screen and my eyes get tired. Recently I read in the last weak several books for learning Erlang and Elixir and one for refreshing ruby. Last month I learned java by doing several projects with netbeans. Initially I programmwd only with gedit and googling stack overflow. I was programming feom six pm to five am to help my son with a java project. Honestly helping him is not doing any good but not helping is not any better. Were my eyes and health stronger I think I could learng anything in little time. I learned the hard way failing one and again. You couldn't believe that I stumpled with all the walls before continuing along, bit what don't kill you make you stronger. Get ready for the next battle, we will win.
- treehau5 10y ago
  Have you tried flux? https://justgetflux.com/ https://justgetflux.com/ It helps me with the eye strain. Also I am starting to find myself returning to good ole paperback books for reading. Try printing out some code bases when ever you start getting more advanced you can actually learn a lot from studying code.
  - nkristoffersen 10y ago
    I'm always preaching the holy word of flux to everyone I meet. Even family members who don't code :-)
  - beachstartup 10y ago
    flux is awesome. i can't use it during the day though, because it puts me to sleep! it works too well.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - stakent 10y ago
    Or redhshift for Linux.
- 10y ago
innocentoldguy 10y ago
After many years of trying, I finally convinced my wife to learn Ruby and Javascript a couple of years ago (we're both almost 50). She complained about many of the same negatives that the author mentions in his article (which is why it took so long to convince her to try), so I think he's on point with his internal criticisms. I think he's also on point with his rebuttals. In my wife's case, a large tech company hired her as a junior developer, and she's been doing great. In an industry where it is fairly common for employees to leave after two or three years (if not sooner), I don't think any employer is overly concerned that they'll only get a handful of years out of an employee. They'll most likely get less than that out of a 20-year-old.
jaclaz 10y ago
Well, if it is not an ad, at least is some astroturfing, how come the BIG photo is not that of the actual guy? The image on the article is this one: https://i2.wp.com/tobecomeateacher.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/ctlghjilmue-jake-barford.jpg https://i2.wp.com/tobecomeateacher.org/wp-content/uploads/20... "Stock photo" by Jake Barford: https://unsplash.com/@jakebarford https://unsplash.com/@jakebarford The photo of Mr. Vaughn, (from his "profile"): https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/fit/c/100/100/1*Lu4bKAqf2SxmV2--PHLy7A.jpeg https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/fit/c/100/100/1*Lu4bKAqf2Sxm...
- epalmer 10y ago
  jaclaz - nice detective work. Photo seemed a little too perfect.
  - jaclaz 10y ago
    Just very basic looking for it with Google Image Search, nothing to be much proud of, it is IMHO more interesting that you will find it also here: http://bobdoesdev.com/ http://bobdoesdev.com/ as the image referencing a testimonial "Jordan Blum, EIC, The Bookends Review" whose looks are also slightly different: http://thebookendsreview.com/about-us/ http://thebookendsreview.com/about-us/ As a rule of thumb, when it looks too good to be true, it isn't. ;)
- jansenv 10y ago
  Looks a bit like Jeff Daniels in dumb & dumber aged 10 years. Good find though. This is really fishy.
  - wyldfire 10y ago
    I think you all are misunderstanding the article. It's extremely common on medium articles to use stock photo at the top of your article. This probably also serves as an article thumbnail in article summaries/indexes. The author clearly uses a photo of what is ostensibly themselves as their profile pic. Nothing in the article indicates "this is me." More important: there is little if anything to be gained by this deception. The article includes self promotion, including "Connect with me on twitter" in the author byline. But this is IMO a par for the course quid-pro-quo in nearly every blog article ever written.
beat 10y ago
At 51, I've noticed there are really two kinds of people at my age... people who are completely beaten, and people who are winning. Once you hit 40 or so, the scope of mortality really hits you. You realize that you've probably already had half your productive life, maybe half a career. You start seeing peers die of "old age" - heart attacks and strokes and stuff. For most, they're beaten, defeated. They decide this is all there is, and they're going to ride out their remaining years doing as little as possible other than wallowing in regret and yelling at kids to get off their damn lawn. It's sad and terrible. I can hardly bear to be around a lot of people who were so vital when they were young. The others, though... they see the clock on the wall. They know that, at best, life is more than half over for them already. They have a limited amount of time. They're the ones ticking things off their bucket list. They understand their priorities. Now, you may not understand just how important it is to them to start a new business, or grow the perfect tomato, or travel through China, but they get it in a deep way, much deeper than most 20-somethings can imagine. You really, really want to work with people like this if you can. They're brilliant.
- adam12 10y ago
  I think it's more complicated than that. I often feel beaten and defeated. That doesn't stop me from being a life long learner. I'm sure there are people who are perfectly content with their lives and they just don't feel the need to learn new things.
  - beat 10y ago
    Well, sure, it's an oversimplification. But I think it's a pretty valid one. It's not just about learning new things (you don't even need to learn to be on the winning side - I know artists who are driven to create, who have already refined their technique and are focused on creativity now).
    - adamredwoods 10y ago
      Let's try not to oversimplify other people's problems. The "beaten and defeated" could be dealing with issues we know nothing about.
DrNuke 10y ago
Admirable as a life example, not sure that starting coding at 56 guarantees higher ROI and market than sql/excel for data analysis though?
rayboy1995 10y ago
I can relate with the fitting in part, though my situation is the complete opposite. I am a self-taught developer that skipped college and I have been a professional software engineer since 18, I am now 21 and have been programming for at least 8 years. At the company I am now working for as a senior engineer I am the youngest here by a large margin. I am the most experienced and youngest and it has caused a bit of hostility towards me. I can understand why though but luckily it has died down since I have been here a few months.
kordless 10y ago
I submitted this yesterday around Noon and got 3 votes. Today, here it is in another submission. Take a look at the URL. HN apparently uses the entire URL, including hashes, which means this is considered a separate submission. Interesting.
- melling 10y ago
  HN is a hit or miss. If you don't get upvoted quickly, you'll get missed. Several weeks ago, 3 of 4 stories that i submitted within two days were completely passed over, only to be resubmitted by other people, which ended up on the front page. One story was even #1 for several hours.
  - johansch 10y ago
    I have noticed this. I have also noticed that reddit is a lot better in this regard - good stories tend to get picked up - e.g. in subreddits that have a comparable new post volume. Here it often seems quite random what does get picked up.
  - cookiecaper 10y ago
    Yes, on HN and reddit properly timing submissions is critical to visibility.
thght 10y ago
Please don't go the web developer (javascript) path; node, react, webpack, etc.. It will drive you nuts, things keep changing radically in a very high pace and can take quite some time before you feel comfortable in this crazy field. I would choose python, ruby(or crystal), c++, c#, etc.. and stay away from the browser, unless you have a very good reason to write for that.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- soneca 10y ago
  I am not the author, but I'm in the exact same situation (except I'm 37). And I am following the javascript path. It seems employable, interesting and, not hard. I know it is a bet, I'm betting in React and if in two years it is old news, I will have to move on. But until then, I am employable. I am very early in my learning path (started from scracth last November), but I have a very clear impression that it is easier to learn Javascript than any of the languages you mentioned. Would you care to elaborate more your point? It would help me a lot. thanks!
  - wccrawford 10y ago
    I wouldn't necessarily say that JS is easier to learn than those other languages, but I think it's easier to be productive in it. If you use one of those other languages with the web, people are going to want you to use Javascript anyhow. So you have to learn both, unless you only do very, very basic things. If you use one of those languages without doing web-stuff... Ugh. Maybe some phone apps line Swift or Java might be do-able, but I dunno about productivity for a long time. On the other hand, it's not that hard to get good enough with Javascript to build some nice usable websites and get paid. IMO it's by far the shortest path to a programming career, and that will help get good enough to learn other languages and spread out while earning income.
  - thght 10y ago
    https://hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in-2016-d3a717dd577f#.arj4bjpls https://hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in-2...
iblaine 10y ago
On one hand, it's warming to hear about someone trying to better themselves. People should never stop learning. On the other, entering a career "to make money" rubs me the wrong way.
- duderific 10y ago
  Many people come from backgrounds where their access to money was extremely limited. Maybe not this guy. But many people look to new careers such as programming as a way to help themselves and their families have a better life. Those people should not be frowned upon IMO.
justinzollars 10y ago
When I was an undergraduate, my major professor said that the average man dies at 22 and is buried at 65. Congratulations on never stopping to learn.
nngrey 10y ago
After a long career in public health, I began learning to code at age 50. I took a couple computer science courses at a local university and then attended a bootcamp focused on Rails. The bootcamp got me an internship, and after the internship, I was hired on a junior dev. Three years later, I am still at the same company (although it has been acquired) and have received one promotion. Most of what I learned, I learned on the job, and there was a long period where I just googled, cut and pasted, but with time, things began to make more sense. I really enjoy what I do today and can imagine doing it for many years to come.
- test6554 10y ago
  Congratulations! This made my day.
brudgers 10y ago
Jeff Meyerson's 2015 interview with Quincy Larson of Free Code Camp provides a good overview of the project. https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2015/10/28/free-code-camp-with-quincy-larson/ https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2015/10/28/free-code-ca...
ready_to_roll 10y ago
How can I email direct? Not interested in Twitter anymore. Too much trolling going on.
jahaja 10y ago
I really wish that life-long learning would be assumed and encouraged on a societal level. Even if it's something that is currently not seen as "productive". I wonder what my older relatives and acquaintances would've want to learn, or work with, without the chains of economical reality.
peter_retief 10y ago
I think I may be 56, hmm, still learning and producing I started coding at 36, that means I have 20 years of experience, thats cool hey!
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
chadrs 10y ago
My father (63, I think?) is starting to learn to code. I chose a decent beginner book for him (Python) and spent some time trying to figure out IDE situation would work best. But the places he stumbled were a total surprise to me. He's never learned to type, imagine coding with hunt-and-peck. Characters like ()[]. he had no idea where to find. He didn't have much understanding of file systems; so things like saving and renaming were tricky. Anyway, he was pretty thrilled with getting a "hello world" example and one that asks your name and prints out a greeting.
- godshatter 10y ago
  I always find it strange when programmers where I work copy+paste everything they can to avoid typing. If you program for a living, typing is your bread and butter. The better you are at it, the more you can get done and the faster your thoughts get dumped to the source file before you forget what the hell you started typing in the first place :) I envy your father. It will be fun watching him have "a-ha" moments as the pieces start to fit together.
eggman 10y ago
Regarding a quote from Dan Bunten "No developer, on their deathbed, hopes for more time alone at a computer screen". Perhaps a quote from an expert, or perhaps not, either way this quote resonates with me. I have some contempt for "certified experts" anyway. The carrot at the end of the obstacle course is this: helping people become better may exponentially increase your reward while tinkering in front of a screen is risky business.
eggman 10y ago
learn arabic, learn japanese, learn chemistry. "coding" is dense and every craft has its skilled practitioners. will anyone read your code in two hundred years?

296 points by sconxu 10y ago

hd4 10y ago

As long as you still have a working memory, you can learn anything at any age, I don't go along with this 'old-dog-can't-learn-new-tricks' thinking. Though obviously when you're younger it's markedly easier to pick up a new skill.

johansch 10y ago
It does take longer for many people to learn new things when they are 50-60 though. I do think we have to be realistic about the issue that many people who learned and performed complex intellectual skills in their 20s/30s no longer perform this kind of ability to pivot in their 50s/60s; to learn a new craft that depends on learning a lot of new information/skills. Of course this doesn't mean that all people in their 50s/60s are like this. Like this post illustrates.
- Baeocystin 10y ago
  Speaking as a 43-year old, while I do have some health issues that I didn't have in my 20's, perhaps somewhat surprisingly, I find learning new things as easy as it's ever been. And I honestly don't think I am unusual in that regard. I have a much wider framework of accumulated knowledge than I did 20 years ago, and leveraging that, I can see how wider parts of systems interrelate with a clarity that I never came close to touching in my youth. Perhaps this too will fade in another 20 years, but so far I'm actually enjoying having a middle-aged mind. I can accomplish so much more than I could before.
  - BatFastard 10y ago
    As a person in the 50-60 year range, I can say that learning new things is a mixed bag for me. When I was young I was like Velcro, throw information at me and it stuck. Now only the important information stays with me. I wish I could have learned that in my twenties. I would not have a head full of useless information... One advantage of being older is I tend to have a more seasoned perspective of what's important and whats not important in the long run.
    - pc86 10y ago
      Whose definition of important? :)
      - BatFastard 10y ago
        Everyone has their own definition of important. I would like to think that after writing software for 30 years I have a decent knowledge of what my customers value. So for me, reliability, scalability, and ease of use are more important than whether a language supports tail recursion and dynamic typing.
        Baeocystin 10y ago
        I certainly agree with you there. Cutting the Gordian Knot of overly-complex software salad, and deploying only what my customer needs, while keeping it simple and robust, is how I pay my bills.
  - pier25 10y ago
    I'm 37 and I find that I'm smarter and wiser now than I was in my 20s which makes learning much easier even if my brain is almost double the age.
    - johansch 10y ago
      Please report back in 20 years from now. :)
      - pier25 10y ago
        RemindMe! Twenty Years
    - jharger 10y ago
      I'm about the same age and feel the same way. In my 20's I would actually avoid learning something because "I know that stuff already" (Spoiler: I didn't) Now I'm thirsty for new knowledge, and much more willing to admit when I don't know something.
    - Brockenstein 10y ago
      Well 37 isn't really that old. The difference between you and a 20 year old might be measurable, but negligible, when it comes to pure learning. IE you're both learning a task, subject, skill neither of you has knowledge or experience about. Clearly experience and knowledge has great value, and coupled with any normal sort of learning ability is a solid combination that is superior to increased learning alone. After all small children can learn amazingly fast compared to adults. But without knowledge and experience to see how to use what they learn or how to combine it to get new ideas they're at a disadvantage. I mean as a software developer at 35 I know a lot more than I did at 20. I was able to learn pretty quick back then, starting from scratch. I can learn pretty quick now. But with the advantage of knowledge and experience, I'm really only learning a couple of new things at a time to add to an already immense store of knowledge, so yeah it's easy. One new thing and I can see right where it fits into my existing knowledge. It's kind of a different ballgame now compared to when I was 20 when I was still getting a handle on the basics.
  - epalmer 10y ago
    Baeocystin - I fit that bill. I am 63. I can learn still but my ability grasp really complex random info has fallen off. My ability to learn info that I am passionate about not so much. I have learned what I can learn and how to learn. In college I could retain a lot for a little time period. Today my short term memory for syntax is not so good. In the book dyslexic advantage[1] they state that dyslexic's short term memory is not as good as the general population but our conceptual memory / ability to visualize is heightened. I am dyslexic and find this to be true. So I learn concepts and thank google every day for syntax. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Dyslexic-Advantage-Unlocking-Hidden-Potential/dp/0452297923/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483634103&sr=8-1&keywords=dyslexic+advantage https://www.amazon.com/Dyslexic-Advantage-Unlocking-Hidden-P... Also Baeocystin I like your HN handle. Edit: Typo Added link to dyslexic advantage
    - Baeocystin 10y ago
      Cheers, my fun guy friend! :D I think the 'learning how to learn' skill is possibly the most important one a person can possess, but by its very nature, it isn't something that comes without long practice. I know I can think of how I approached study in my late teens/early 20's with a shiver at my poor choices. I do IT work for small business owners. One of the things that I've noticed over the years is that the number of successful small businesses that are run by dyslexics is much higher than you would expect from the %/population numbers. And it is clear to me that it is their ability to conceptualize what the business needs, visualize how to move forward, and (perhaps most importantly) comfort in delegating tasks that plays a large role in their success. Which works well for me, too. I may not be dyslexic, but I quite enjoy their work style.
      - epalmer 10y ago
        Yes. Turns out I founded, ran and sold two small businesses. I've seen alot of dyslexics in small businesses. Edit: typo
  - Brockenstein 10y ago
    I'm not saying you're wrong and 43 is still fairly young (I'm only 35) so it's possible even if there was a difference that it could still be negligible and there's all sorts variables that go into how well people learn as they get older. But you could be wrong. Can you really accurately track how well you learn on a day to day basis over a lifetime? Doubtful. Even if you could really only learn 85% as well as you did when you were 20 it would be a measurable difference objectively. But subjectively that decline would be so minimal from one day to the next you would have a hard time noticing the decline. And since you still feel sharp at 43, and you felt sharp at 20, well nothing has changed, even though it clearly has. Also some people just lie to themselves about how capable they (still) are. If you've ever dealt with an aging relative who was losing their vision but resistant to giving up driving. Or in the beginning stages of dementia but was in denial about it. Human beings will generally do anything to avoid admitting declining abilities of any sort. Or they will temper an admission with a but of some sort. It's just part of the experience. You bring up a point about experience. Knowledge and experience have value too, obviously. After all young children can learn faster than adults period, but they don't know anything yet, and that's a disadvantage. And being able to learn a little bit better isn't so attractive that you'd be willing to give up all your accumulated experience. I wouldn't either. But I am sure I can share that experience with a 20 something with no knowledge about software development and they'll pick it up much faster than my 60 something mother with no knowledge and software development. And that's where the learning bit comes in. And learning one more thing in a subject you're already an expert in, isn't really a tall order. Starting from scratch, like most children or young adults have to do is a greater feat and put on the same playing field, in a subject where you really have no experience or expertise, you might find the competition a little stiffer than you remember it being than when you were a kid. Still at 43 you're still young, but at 53? 63? 73? At some point there will probably be some obvious differences in your abilities that just become more stark as you age, even if you fare amazingly well against your peers in the same age group. Research that seems to support that people who spend a lot of energy on learning and thinking and doing mentally demanding activities do better cognitively in their old age. I hope it's true, and specifically I hope it's true in my case. If age hasn't proven to be an impediment for learning yet I just wouldn't worry about it. And even if things get tougher to learn as you get older it's not boolean, you can still learn things if you put the effort in, if you still want to learn it. Being less capable != incapable. This isn't a scenario where any position other than #1 is tied with last place, or first place loser, or any other sort of trope you want.
  - geoelectric 10y ago
    44. My memory is definitely a little worse than when young, and I think I've probably slowed down somewhat in the absolute sense. But I also have 21 years of experience to build on, which is quite the accelerator. New tech is frequently old concepts applied in a new way. Once you recognize those core concepts and can find older analogies, you're way ahead. In the end it's a net gain.
- lordnacho 10y ago
  How much of it is age, and how much of it is having kids along with an established routine? I find it pretty easy to learn things, just not when I'm interrupted by the kids. There's no reason why at 36 I can't listen to lectures about philosophy or read a bit about some new tech. What's hard is getting focused time to do a proper project, because my time outside of work hours is taken up by parenting.
  - Dotnaught 10y ago
    Lack of uninterrupted time for learning and experimentation is a real issue if you have a family. I ended up paying to attend a General Assembly JavaScript class recently because while I could easily have learned the material on my own for free, I couldn't guarantee having regular blocks of time to engage with the material otherwise.
- tptacek 10y ago
  "I think we have to be realistic about" is, whether you intend it or not, an attempt to reframe the discussion around your particular set of priors. We need to be careful about language like that. There are many reasons to challenge the assumption that it's difficult for older people to learn to code: * It's may not be valid to extrapolate from more general neuroplasticity findings to programming * It may be that changes in neuroplasticity affect the effectiveness of different modalities of learning, so that it's not so much that it's harder for older people to learn coding, but that they might need to use different strategies to learn --- for instance, 20 year olds might be able to get away with rote memorization as a crutch, and older adults might need to use more authentic learning strategies * It's also possible that for large numbers of adults, learning to code is easier, because their brains have been trained through work they've done throughout their careers * It's also the case that there isn't one "programming", but rather a whole constellation of different skills, some of which reward an orientation towards organization and careful planning, some of which reward tenacity, some of which reward creative and intuitive thinking, some of which reward numeracy, and so on We should be very careful about generalizing, because one thing we do know is that human brains have incredibly powerful cognitive biases that are working constantly to fill in the blanks in our knowledge --- particularly about our models of the behavior and capabilities of other humans --- and much of what it fills in is accurate only up to the point where it allows us to effectively collect berries and hunt gazelles and stuff. For whatever it's worth: I'm 40, not 50, but the tempo at which I've been learning new things is accelerating, not decelerating: I work in more languages now, I work in more problem domains (for instance, I never used to do any front-end work), and in particular my math --- which has always been awful --- has been improving by leaps and bounds. Maybe things will suddenly suck for me when I turn 50, but the current trends are not worrying me.
  - conistonwater 10y ago
    I'm skeptical of arguments based on neuroplasticity or learning styles for the following reason. Given how good people are at learning in general (it is the evolutionary advantage that humans have), it would in fact be extremely surprising if there was anything short of an illness that shut down somebody's ability to learn things. Thus ability to learn things, even when one is older, doesn't need an explanation, whereas inability to learn things does.
facepalm 10y ago
I think programming is comparatively easy to learn. I sometimes wish I had become a physician, but I don't think trying to learn that by myself (or in 21 days or whatever) would be a good idea. With coding, a single good programming book for about 30$ can get you a long way...
- superplussed 10y ago
  I agree, programming is easier to learn than so many other things because of the short feedback loop, the available resources, and the willingness of those who are experienced to talk about what they've learned.
wvenable 10y ago
A big issue I have now is simply time; I think I could easily pick up new things (probably faster) but I no longer have the idle time to do it. You can learn anything but at some point you start prioritizing.

the_jp 10y ago

Great attitude, someone hire this guy. :)

johansch 10y ago

Well, that plan does sound plausible. Seems smart and social enough to get a good job in development. And on top of that he is quite good at writing. Maybe that's something - in combination with programming skills - he could focus on, career-wise...

mfukar 10y ago

bootcamps - the best way of driving both wages and software quality down

gravypod 10y ago
I don't think bootcamps turn out lower quality developers and I don't think they will drive wages down. Currently they are web focused but I think the bootcamp style is far better at teaching programming/computer information then the current university enviroment. We might well see a bootcamp one day that does cover a different spectrum of computing then currently dominated by such schools (Realtime/Trading/Firmware/Embeded/DSP).
- cholantesh 10y ago
  >We might well see a bootcamp one day that does cover a different spectrum of computing then currently dominated by such schools (Realtime/Trading/Firmware/Embeded/DSP). Most of those fields seem pretty advanced (can't speak for DSP or trading, but realtime and embedded software both seem fairly intimidating to me). Do you feel that someone totally green to software would be able to ramp up in the time advertised by the average bootcamp (2-3 months)?
JackFr 10y ago
credentialism - the best way of inflating wages with artificial scarcity,
- treehau5 10y ago
  why is it artificial? Credentials are everywhere. You need credentials to be an account, a physician, a teacher, a lawyer, a dentist, a chiropractor, a (insert various iteration of crazy welding techniques) welder, a steel fabricator (AISC), a child services worker, heavy machinery operator, if you are an engineer and want to work for the public, you have to get licensed, and the list can go on and on. And I am really, really thankful that the above jobs require credentials.
  - 10y ago

webwanderings 10y ago

This appears to be an Ad for free code camp (not that there's anything wrong with that). Just ten years younger in a similar boat, I'm neither taking a boot camp, nor writing about my "CIS". To each their own. Learning is a life long activity. It shouldn't matter what one learns at any age.

jameskegel 10y ago
Maybe I'm having trouble parsing your comment, but it is not readily apparent if you're critical or in support of the post. Could you clarify your statement?
- dualogy 10y ago
  Maybe he's just sharing first-thoughts.. not everyone feels compelled to immediately decide on their lightning-quick "critical/supportive" judgment as a top priority. Especially our seasoned "best-agers"!! =)
grok2 10y ago
Perhaps it really is an ad, but if it is real, I am impressed that the person thinks at 56, he has enough runway in life to make a serious contribution by coding :-)...I like that attitude.
- mgkimsal 10y ago
  why wouldn't he? plenty of folks much younger than me have made 'serious contributions' in far less time than I have.
  - grok2 10y ago
    I'm growing old too and I find it hard to motivate myself to take up new things that are very long term -- somedays I wonder what is the point in learning a new programming language or framework and I am nowhere as old as him. Which is why I liked his attitude. It's refreshing and inspiring.

superplussed 10y ago

Obviously things are going to be tough as a 50s junior developer, but it sounds like you are up for the challenge. And hey, we all have to do something with the time we are here. It might as well be something you enjoy, challenges be damned.

counterplex 10y ago
I'd imagine by your 50s you'd have already learned the right attitude to succeed at anything: do the best you can, ask for help often and speak up right away when scope explodes! This makes things easier, not more difficult.
- kbart 10y ago
  Attitude is not the problem here, getting a job is. Few acquaintances of mine in their thirties also try to jump this developer bandwagon and it's very hard to get a junior position for them, because they are "too old" (of course, nobody says that directly). Actually, they started to get interviews only after had hidden years in their CVs (as per mine advice).
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    Which is quite funny when you consider many of us are using technology that is only a few years old and we are constantly told we shouldn't stop learning to have a career in programming.

weakeyesforit 10y ago

At my age the main problem is that I read a lot in a computer screen and my eyes get tired. Recently I read in the last weak several books for learning Erlang and Elixir and one for refreshing ruby. Last month I learned java by doing several projects with netbeans. Initially I programmwd only with gedit and googling stack overflow. I was programming feom six pm to five am to help my son with a java project. Honestly helping him is not doing any good but not helping is not any better. Were my eyes and health stronger I think I could learng anything in little time. I learned the hard way failing one and again. You couldn't believe that I stumpled with all the walls before continuing along, bit what don't kill you make you stronger. Get ready for the next battle, we will win.

treehau5 10y ago
Have you tried flux? https://justgetflux.com/ https://justgetflux.com/ It helps me with the eye strain. Also I am starting to find myself returning to good ole paperback books for reading. Try printing out some code bases when ever you start getting more advanced you can actually learn a lot from studying code.
- nkristoffersen 10y ago
  I'm always preaching the holy word of flux to everyone I meet. Even family members who don't code :-)
- beachstartup 10y ago
  flux is awesome. i can't use it during the day though, because it puts me to sleep! it works too well.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- stakent 10y ago
  Or redhshift for Linux.
10y ago

innocentoldguy 10y ago

After many years of trying, I finally convinced my wife to learn Ruby and Javascript a couple of years ago (we're both almost 50). She complained about many of the same negatives that the author mentions in his article (which is why it took so long to convince her to try), so I think he's on point with his internal criticisms. I think he's also on point with his rebuttals. In my wife's case, a large tech company hired her as a junior developer, and she's been doing great. In an industry where it is fairly common for employees to leave after two or three years (if not sooner), I don't think any employer is overly concerned that they'll only get a handful of years out of an employee. They'll most likely get less than that out of a 20-year-old.

jaclaz 10y ago

Well, if it is not an ad, at least is some astroturfing, how come the BIG photo is not that of the actual guy? The image on the article is this one: https://i2.wp.com/tobecomeateacher.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/ctlghjilmue-jake-barford.jpg https://i2.wp.com/tobecomeateacher.org/wp-content/uploads/20... "Stock photo" by Jake Barford: https://unsplash.com/@jakebarford https://unsplash.com/@jakebarford The photo of Mr. Vaughn, (from his "profile"): https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/fit/c/100/100/1*Lu4bKAqf2SxmV2--PHLy7A.jpeg https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/fit/c/100/100/1*Lu4bKAqf2Sxm...

epalmer 10y ago
jaclaz - nice detective work. Photo seemed a little too perfect.
- jaclaz 10y ago
  Just very basic looking for it with Google Image Search, nothing to be much proud of, it is IMHO more interesting that you will find it also here: http://bobdoesdev.com/ http://bobdoesdev.com/ as the image referencing a testimonial "Jordan Blum, EIC, The Bookends Review" whose looks are also slightly different: http://thebookendsreview.com/about-us/ http://thebookendsreview.com/about-us/ As a rule of thumb, when it looks too good to be true, it isn't. ;)
jansenv 10y ago
Looks a bit like Jeff Daniels in dumb & dumber aged 10 years. Good find though. This is really fishy.
- wyldfire 10y ago
  I think you all are misunderstanding the article. It's extremely common on medium articles to use stock photo at the top of your article. This probably also serves as an article thumbnail in article summaries/indexes. The author clearly uses a photo of what is ostensibly themselves as their profile pic. Nothing in the article indicates "this is me." More important: there is little if anything to be gained by this deception. The article includes self promotion, including "Connect with me on twitter" in the author byline. But this is IMO a par for the course quid-pro-quo in nearly every blog article ever written.

beat 10y ago

At 51, I've noticed there are really two kinds of people at my age... people who are completely beaten, and people who are winning. Once you hit 40 or so, the scope of mortality really hits you. You realize that you've probably already had half your productive life, maybe half a career. You start seeing peers die of "old age" - heart attacks and strokes and stuff. For most, they're beaten, defeated. They decide this is all there is, and they're going to ride out their remaining years doing as little as possible other than wallowing in regret and yelling at kids to get off their damn lawn. It's sad and terrible. I can hardly bear to be around a lot of people who were so vital when they were young. The others, though... they see the clock on the wall. They know that, at best, life is more than half over for them already. They have a limited amount of time. They're the ones ticking things off their bucket list. They understand their priorities. Now, you may not understand just how important it is to them to start a new business, or grow the perfect tomato, or travel through China, but they get it in a deep way, much deeper than most 20-somethings can imagine. You really, really want to work with people like this if you can. They're brilliant.

adam12 10y ago
I think it's more complicated than that. I often feel beaten and defeated. That doesn't stop me from being a life long learner. I'm sure there are people who are perfectly content with their lives and they just don't feel the need to learn new things.
- beat 10y ago
  Well, sure, it's an oversimplification. But I think it's a pretty valid one. It's not just about learning new things (you don't even need to learn to be on the winning side - I know artists who are driven to create, who have already refined their technique and are focused on creativity now).
  - adamredwoods 10y ago
    Let's try not to oversimplify other people's problems. The "beaten and defeated" could be dealing with issues we know nothing about.

DrNuke 10y ago

Admirable as a life example, not sure that starting coding at 56 guarantees higher ROI and market than sql/excel for data analysis though?

rayboy1995 10y ago

I can relate with the fitting in part, though my situation is the complete opposite. I am a self-taught developer that skipped college and I have been a professional software engineer since 18, I am now 21 and have been programming for at least 8 years. At the company I am now working for as a senior engineer I am the youngest here by a large margin. I am the most experienced and youngest and it has caused a bit of hostility towards me. I can understand why though but luckily it has died down since I have been here a few months.

kordless 10y ago

I submitted this yesterday around Noon and got 3 votes. Today, here it is in another submission. Take a look at the URL. HN apparently uses the entire URL, including hashes, which means this is considered a separate submission. Interesting.

melling 10y ago
HN is a hit or miss. If you don't get upvoted quickly, you'll get missed. Several weeks ago, 3 of 4 stories that i submitted within two days were completely passed over, only to be resubmitted by other people, which ended up on the front page. One story was even #1 for several hours.
- johansch 10y ago
  I have noticed this. I have also noticed that reddit is a lot better in this regard - good stories tend to get picked up - e.g. in subreddits that have a comparable new post volume. Here it often seems quite random what does get picked up.
- cookiecaper 10y ago
  Yes, on HN and reddit properly timing submissions is critical to visibility.

thght 10y ago

Please don't go the web developer (javascript) path; node, react, webpack, etc.. It will drive you nuts, things keep changing radically in a very high pace and can take quite some time before you feel comfortable in this crazy field. I would choose python, ruby(or crystal), c++, c#, etc.. and stay away from the browser, unless you have a very good reason to write for that.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
soneca 10y ago
I am not the author, but I'm in the exact same situation (except I'm 37). And I am following the javascript path. It seems employable, interesting and, not hard. I know it is a bet, I'm betting in React and if in two years it is old news, I will have to move on. But until then, I am employable. I am very early in my learning path (started from scracth last November), but I have a very clear impression that it is easier to learn Javascript than any of the languages you mentioned. Would you care to elaborate more your point? It would help me a lot. thanks!
- wccrawford 10y ago
  I wouldn't necessarily say that JS is easier to learn than those other languages, but I think it's easier to be productive in it. If you use one of those other languages with the web, people are going to want you to use Javascript anyhow. So you have to learn both, unless you only do very, very basic things. If you use one of those languages without doing web-stuff... Ugh. Maybe some phone apps line Swift or Java might be do-able, but I dunno about productivity for a long time. On the other hand, it's not that hard to get good enough with Javascript to build some nice usable websites and get paid. IMO it's by far the shortest path to a programming career, and that will help get good enough to learn other languages and spread out while earning income.
- thght 10y ago
  https://hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in-2016-d3a717dd577f#.arj4bjpls https://hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in-2...

iblaine 10y ago

On one hand, it's warming to hear about someone trying to better themselves. People should never stop learning. On the other, entering a career "to make money" rubs me the wrong way.

duderific 10y ago
Many people come from backgrounds where their access to money was extremely limited. Maybe not this guy. But many people look to new careers such as programming as a way to help themselves and their families have a better life. Those people should not be frowned upon IMO.

justinzollars 10y ago

When I was an undergraduate, my major professor said that the average man dies at 22 and is buried at 65. Congratulations on never stopping to learn.

nngrey 10y ago

After a long career in public health, I began learning to code at age 50. I took a couple computer science courses at a local university and then attended a bootcamp focused on Rails. The bootcamp got me an internship, and after the internship, I was hired on a junior dev. Three years later, I am still at the same company (although it has been acquired) and have received one promotion. Most of what I learned, I learned on the job, and there was a long period where I just googled, cut and pasted, but with time, things began to make more sense. I really enjoy what I do today and can imagine doing it for many years to come.

test6554 10y ago
Congratulations! This made my day.

brudgers 10y ago

Jeff Meyerson's 2015 interview with Quincy Larson of Free Code Camp provides a good overview of the project. https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2015/10/28/free-code-camp-with-quincy-larson/ https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2015/10/28/free-code-ca...

ready_to_roll 10y ago

How can I email direct? Not interested in Twitter anymore. Too much trolling going on.

jahaja 10y ago

I really wish that life-long learning would be assumed and encouraged on a societal level. Even if it's something that is currently not seen as "productive". I wonder what my older relatives and acquaintances would've want to learn, or work with, without the chains of economical reality.

peter_retief 10y ago

I think I may be 56, hmm, still learning and producing I started coding at 36, that means I have 20 years of experience, thats cool hey!

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

chadrs 10y ago

My father (63, I think?) is starting to learn to code. I chose a decent beginner book for him (Python) and spent some time trying to figure out IDE situation would work best. But the places he stumbled were a total surprise to me. He's never learned to type, imagine coding with hunt-and-peck. Characters like ()[]. he had no idea where to find. He didn't have much understanding of file systems; so things like saving and renaming were tricky. Anyway, he was pretty thrilled with getting a "hello world" example and one that asks your name and prints out a greeting.

godshatter 10y ago
I always find it strange when programmers where I work copy+paste everything they can to avoid typing. If you program for a living, typing is your bread and butter. The better you are at it, the more you can get done and the faster your thoughts get dumped to the source file before you forget what the hell you started typing in the first place :) I envy your father. It will be fun watching him have "a-ha" moments as the pieces start to fit together.

eggman 10y ago

Regarding a quote from Dan Bunten "No developer, on their deathbed, hopes for more time alone at a computer screen". Perhaps a quote from an expert, or perhaps not, either way this quote resonates with me. I have some contempt for "certified experts" anyway. The carrot at the end of the obstacle course is this: helping people become better may exponentially increase your reward while tinkering in front of a screen is risky business.

eggman 10y ago

learn arabic, learn japanese, learn chemistry. "coding" is dense and every craft has its skilled practitioners. will anyone read your code in two hundred years?