7 ms·

Something that might be comparably shocking is the extent to which Chinese investors and government representatives influence the content of Hollywood movies th

by schoen 10y ago

Something that might be comparably shocking is the extent to which Chinese investors and government representatives influence the content of Hollywood movies that depict or refer to China. There were some news reports about this in the last couple of years; I sat next to a Hollywood studio executive on a flight last month and (rather than arguing about copyright policy) commiserated about this issue. He confirmed that there are organized systems in place with representatives sent to monitor film content to ensure Chinese market access and avoid upsetting investors. This has been reported quite a bit for several years; see, e.g., http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/05/18/407619652/how-chinas-censors-influence-hollywood http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/05/18/407619652/h... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/business/media/in-hollywood-movies-for-china-bureaucrats-want-a-say.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/business/media/in-hollywoo... http://origin.www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/Research/Directed%20by%20Hollywood%20Edited%20by%20China.pdf http://origin.www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/Research/Dire...

diogenescynic 10y ago
For example, Disney/Marvel changed the location from Tibet in the Doctor Strange movie so as not to offend China.
GuiA 10y ago
American investors and government influence the content of Hollywood movies that depict the US or US activity, so I'm not sure why that should be particularly shocking. This is what happens in a globalized economy.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Except a movie could be totally subversive of the American government (the CIA or military is the bad guy, a national/state/local government is corrupt, etc...) and the movie could still go into wide production and make millions of dollars. Heck, it even is super easy to find examples of that (you want to know the truth? You can't handle the truth!). Now try doing that in China. Make the PLA the enemy or portray a corrupt out of control official in Chongqing like Bo Xilai. Not allowed, because it is way too close to the truth for comfort, maybe.
  - throwaway122916 10y ago
    There are a lot of US movies that go the other way - praising the US military/portraying conflicts in good vs evil way. Example is Battle Los Angeles (2011) and American Sniper (2015). So such things are in effect "soft propaganda". In China, to protect themselves against such soft influence, they enact regulations. Letting people watch all US movies without a filter is effectively letting US set the cultural standards and values. I am not advocating for such a strategy, but since some other countries don't have the technological capability to make engaging soft cultural influence movies, I get where they're coming from.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      I really have no problem with that...I find these movies pretty boring myself. But the fact that a Chinese film maker cannot make a movie about china with critical social commentary is a huge problem for China's social development.
    - thelittleone 10y ago
      This is an important point. We're usually only tuned in to notice the propaganda of our "enemies", because to us they're evil and any attempt to appear otherwise is outrageous. Another film example is Act of Valor (2012). An enjoyable demonstration of real military hardware, accompanied by god mode special forces operators, jumping in to any country, saving the world from super villains. This film provides a sense of security to the US and it's allies whilst simultaneously instilling fear in it's enemies. All respect to the real heroes out there, military and otherwise.
    - rodgerd 10y ago
      Those are mild examples compared to the trend that started with, IIRC, Top Gun, where the US millitary trades use of millitary assets as props in return for the "right" spin being put on the movie.
    - int_19h 10y ago
      > Letting people watch all US movies without a filter is effectively letting US set the cultural standards and values. No, it's letting the people set the cultural standards and values, by deciding what to watch and what not to watch.
anigbrowl 10y ago
That third link is fascinating - not just for he insights into how Chinese censors indirectly guide producers, but also for the lack of ironic detachment and self-awareness shown by the American analysts, eg Red Dawn, a remake of a 1980s action movie about a Soviet invasion of the United States, was originally shot featuring China as the antagonist invading the United States. According to Mr. Shiao, however, the Chinese are “not interested in their country being perceived as a violent military threat to the lives of average Americans.” and A 'Captain Phillips' executive identified the tone of the film as a source of discomfort for censors, particularly “the big Military machine of the U.S. saving one U.S. citizen. China would never do the same and in no way would want to promote this idea.” While I think censorship an unwise and ultimately self-defeating policy, and also agree with the basic premise that a good many of the rules are just dressed up protectionism, I can't really blame China for declining to import overt propaganda. China makes lots of propagandistic films, but the propaganda is mainly about what China should be like. It'll be some time before they produce an overtly anti-American film like Brother 2 or Valley of the Wolves (as opposed to striaght-up propaganda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_8lSjcoSW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_8lSjcoSW8) and I doubt whether it would be well-received here if they did.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- PakG1 10y ago
  A 'Captain Phillips' executive identified the tone of the film as a source of discomfort for censors, particularly “the big Military machine of the U.S. saving one U.S. citizen. China would never do the same and in no way would want to promote this idea.” I was watching Argo on my Chinese IPTV streaming service in Shenzhen with my Chinese roommate and my roommate was blown away by the idea that the movie was based on a true story. He said that the Chinese government would never take such extreme steps to rescue its citizens from any such situation. I never really thought about his comment and his shock (it was a lot of shock) until reading this just now. Wow, interesting.
  - igravious 10y ago
Inconel 10y ago
I'm not a fan of this kind of government influence in filmmaking, but so long as the Chinese are at it maybe they could turn their attention to Hollywood's propensity to depict Asian males as undesirable emasculated nerds and Asian females as fetishized objects.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Like Big Hero 6?
  - Inconel 10y ago
    I've yet to see that film, although the reviews look pretty good so I'll have to give it a view when I get the chance.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      It has a very good portrayal of Asians, at least, though still nerdy (but the trope is subverted multiple times). Hollywood is getting better at it. Miraculous ladybug also defies the trope, but in a mixed race context (Chinese-French).
      - Inconel 10y ago
        I don't watch many major movie releases anymore so I could well be out of the loop and misinformed. If Hollywood is truly getting better at not using the kinds of ethnic, racial, and gender tropes that make for cheap laughs and storytelling then that is very good news to me. And thanks for the movie tips!
        seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        The first is a movie, the latter is a cartoon. Hollywood is huge, everyone has their own standards.
      - krapp 10y ago
gambiting 10y ago
I work in the games industry and we had to remove "Taiwan" as a country option if we wanted to release our game in China. There's a lot of push if you want to release anything on the market there.
- douche 10y ago
  The whole One China policy is incredibly dumb. Out of the last 120 years, Taiwan has actually been part of the mainland Chinese state for all of 4 years, 4 years in which they were in fact controlled by the same government as currently exercises sovereignty there today.
s_kilk 10y ago
It's also the only reason Donnie Yen's character exists in Rogue One.

by schoen 10y ago

diogenescynic 10y ago

For example, Disney/Marvel changed the location from Tibet in the Doctor Strange movie so as not to offend China.

GuiA 10y ago

American investors and government influence the content of Hollywood movies that depict the US or US activity, so I'm not sure why that should be particularly shocking. This is what happens in a globalized economy.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Except a movie could be totally subversive of the American government (the CIA or military is the bad guy, a national/state/local government is corrupt, etc...) and the movie could still go into wide production and make millions of dollars. Heck, it even is super easy to find examples of that (you want to know the truth? You can't handle the truth!). Now try doing that in China. Make the PLA the enemy or portray a corrupt out of control official in Chongqing like Bo Xilai. Not allowed, because it is way too close to the truth for comfort, maybe.
- throwaway122916 10y ago
  There are a lot of US movies that go the other way - praising the US military/portraying conflicts in good vs evil way. Example is Battle Los Angeles (2011) and American Sniper (2015). So such things are in effect "soft propaganda". In China, to protect themselves against such soft influence, they enact regulations. Letting people watch all US movies without a filter is effectively letting US set the cultural standards and values. I am not advocating for such a strategy, but since some other countries don't have the technological capability to make engaging soft cultural influence movies, I get where they're coming from.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    I really have no problem with that...I find these movies pretty boring myself. But the fact that a Chinese film maker cannot make a movie about china with critical social commentary is a huge problem for China's social development.
  - thelittleone 10y ago
    This is an important point. We're usually only tuned in to notice the propaganda of our "enemies", because to us they're evil and any attempt to appear otherwise is outrageous. Another film example is Act of Valor (2012). An enjoyable demonstration of real military hardware, accompanied by god mode special forces operators, jumping in to any country, saving the world from super villains. This film provides a sense of security to the US and it's allies whilst simultaneously instilling fear in it's enemies. All respect to the real heroes out there, military and otherwise.
  - rodgerd 10y ago
    Those are mild examples compared to the trend that started with, IIRC, Top Gun, where the US millitary trades use of millitary assets as props in return for the "right" spin being put on the movie.
  - int_19h 10y ago
    > Letting people watch all US movies without a filter is effectively letting US set the cultural standards and values. No, it's letting the people set the cultural standards and values, by deciding what to watch and what not to watch.

anigbrowl 10y ago

That third link is fascinating - not just for he insights into how Chinese censors indirectly guide producers, but also for the lack of ironic detachment and self-awareness shown by the American analysts, eg Red Dawn, a remake of a 1980s action movie about a Soviet invasion of the United States, was originally shot featuring China as the antagonist invading the United States. According to Mr. Shiao, however, the Chinese are “not interested in their country being perceived as a violent military threat to the lives of average Americans.” and A 'Captain Phillips' executive identified the tone of the film as a source of discomfort for censors, particularly “the big Military machine of the U.S. saving one U.S. citizen. China would never do the same and in no way would want to promote this idea.” While I think censorship an unwise and ultimately self-defeating policy, and also agree with the basic premise that a good many of the rules are just dressed up protectionism, I can't really blame China for declining to import overt propaganda. China makes lots of propagandistic films, but the propaganda is mainly about what China should be like. It'll be some time before they produce an overtly anti-American film like Brother 2 or Valley of the Wolves (as opposed to striaght-up propaganda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_8lSjcoSW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_8lSjcoSW8) and I doubt whether it would be well-received here if they did.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
PakG1 10y ago
A 'Captain Phillips' executive identified the tone of the film as a source of discomfort for censors, particularly “the big Military machine of the U.S. saving one U.S. citizen. China would never do the same and in no way would want to promote this idea.” I was watching Argo on my Chinese IPTV streaming service in Shenzhen with my Chinese roommate and my roommate was blown away by the idea that the movie was based on a true story. He said that the Chinese government would never take such extreme steps to rescue its citizens from any such situation. I never really thought about his comment and his shock (it was a lot of shock) until reading this just now. Wow, interesting.
- igravious 10y ago

Inconel 10y ago

I'm not a fan of this kind of government influence in filmmaking, but so long as the Chinese are at it maybe they could turn their attention to Hollywood's propensity to depict Asian males as undesirable emasculated nerds and Asian females as fetishized objects.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Like Big Hero 6?
- Inconel 10y ago
  I've yet to see that film, although the reviews look pretty good so I'll have to give it a view when I get the chance.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    It has a very good portrayal of Asians, at least, though still nerdy (but the trope is subverted multiple times). Hollywood is getting better at it. Miraculous ladybug also defies the trope, but in a mixed race context (Chinese-French).
    - Inconel 10y ago
      I don't watch many major movie releases anymore so I could well be out of the loop and misinformed. If Hollywood is truly getting better at not using the kinds of ethnic, racial, and gender tropes that make for cheap laughs and storytelling then that is very good news to me. And thanks for the movie tips!
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        The first is a movie, the latter is a cartoon. Hollywood is huge, everyone has their own standards.
    - krapp 10y ago

gambiting 10y ago

I work in the games industry and we had to remove "Taiwan" as a country option if we wanted to release our game in China. There's a lot of push if you want to release anything on the market there.

douche 10y ago
The whole One China policy is incredibly dumb. Out of the last 120 years, Taiwan has actually been part of the mainland Chinese state for all of 4 years, 4 years in which they were in fact controlled by the same government as currently exercises sovereignty there today.

s_kilk 10y ago

It's also the only reason Donnie Yen's character exists in Rogue One.