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China's been 'fact checking' far longer than the internet has existed.

WildUtah 10y ago
The internet started in 1969 and the Chinese Communist Party forced the legitimate government to retreat to Taipei in 1949. So China has been fact checking for twenty years longer than the internet has existed.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  What precisely makes Maoist China less legitimate than Nationalist China? I don't recall either of them winning any kind of fair and free elections.
  - unchocked 10y ago
    Your recollection is profoundly wrong. FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Taiwan https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2016/taiwan https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2016/taiwan
    - gohrt 10y ago
      That article says that Taiwan didn't have democratic elections in 1990. How is that responsive to a claim that Nationalist China was undemocratic?
      - unchocked 10y ago
        I'm under the impression that Taiwan is Nationalist China.
        mikeash 10y ago
        I think you missed the implied "as of 1949" in the claim you attempted to rebut.
        xiaoma 10y ago
        It's not. Taiwan is fully democratic, has elected a president from the Democratic Progressive Party and has very few people who self-identify as Chinese.
        xiaoma 10y ago
        Everything I wrote above is true. Here is more detail: Ruling party: Taiwan's president is indeed from the Democratic Progressive Party. [1] Self identification: More than 80 percent of respondents self-identified as Taiwanese, compared with 8.1 percent who identified themselves as Chinese and 7.6 percent who identified as both. [2] Fully democratic: Not only does Taiwan have open elections and tolerate political demonstrations even the US wouldn't, but people have had referendum powers since 2003. This power was used stop the building of casinos in Penghu despite the moneyed interests pushing for them: [3] 1) http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35336411 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35336411 2) http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2016/05/28/2003647291 http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2016/05/28/20... 3) https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-15/casinos-rejected-by-outlying-taiwan-islands-in-referendum-vote https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-15/casinos-r...
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      His recollection is not wrong, Taiwan didn't had a public election until the mid 90's, and even the 1996 one was a bit iffy, until 1987 Taiwan was under martial law, and until 86 you couldn't form political parties. The Republic of China was a unitary state before and during the "communist rebellion", it continued to be a unitary state after it until 1991 (and until 2000 technically the KMT still "ruled" Taiwan) when the National Assembly which hasn't been (re)elected since 1948 voted itself out of office finally after about 10 years of some liberalization. Today Taiwan has a ridiculous number of political parties (nearly 300) with 3-4 of them actually having seats in the house, tho effectively Taiwan is a 2 party country with sweeping swings in number of seats and leadership between the Democratic Progressive Party and the Chinese National Party.
  - elastic_church 10y ago
    Everyone that left or escaped Maoist China has an opinion of the mainland that is fixed in time, and is used to shape perception and policy towards the mainland that is completely incongruent with the sentiment on the mainland. Thats the only difference.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      Well, China reinforces its Maoist image from time to time with goose stepping military parades that seem archaic today; then there is the bizarre censorship, and have you ever seen the cult of personality news cast at 7PM on CCTV? China does itself no favors in trying to shape a more modern updated perception of itself on the outside.
      - elastic_church 10y ago
        The only people that care live in a SAR or America. Okay that was an exaggeration, I would say the mainland sentiment isn't greatly concerned with the game of nations and are content with the role the grand administrators have assumed. I think it is a preoccupation of western minds, more so than of the minds of the people that actually live there.
        seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        If they do care, they definitely are messing it up. But you are right: almost all of China's posturing is for domestic consumption and thye are probably very unconcerned with their international image. china presents an image that is almost North Korean to the rest of the world, even though this is far from the truth. The current leadership, which came of age during the cultural revolution, is even worse than the previous leaders in this regard, and they probably don't realize how bad they look (with the fake hair dye, but everything else also).

The internet started in 1969 and the Chinese Communist Party forced the legitimate government to retreat to Taipei in 1949. So China has been fact checking for twenty years longer than the internet has existed.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
What precisely makes Maoist China less legitimate than Nationalist China? I don't recall either of them winning any kind of fair and free elections.
- unchocked 10y ago
  Your recollection is profoundly wrong. FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Taiwan https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2016/taiwan https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2016/taiwan
  - gohrt 10y ago
    That article says that Taiwan didn't have democratic elections in 1990. How is that responsive to a claim that Nationalist China was undemocratic?
    - unchocked 10y ago
      I'm under the impression that Taiwan is Nationalist China.
      - mikeash 10y ago
        I think you missed the implied "as of 1949" in the claim you attempted to rebut.
      - xiaoma 10y ago
        It's not. Taiwan is fully democratic, has elected a president from the Democratic Progressive Party and has very few people who self-identify as Chinese.
        xiaoma 10y ago
        Everything I wrote above is true. Here is more detail: Ruling party: Taiwan's president is indeed from the Democratic Progressive Party. [1] Self identification: More than 80 percent of respondents self-identified as Taiwanese, compared with 8.1 percent who identified themselves as Chinese and 7.6 percent who identified as both. [2] Fully democratic: Not only does Taiwan have open elections and tolerate political demonstrations even the US wouldn't, but people have had referendum powers since 2003. This power was used stop the building of casinos in Penghu despite the moneyed interests pushing for them: [3] 1) http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35336411 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35336411 2) http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2016/05/28/2003647291 http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2016/05/28/20... 3) https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-15/casinos-rejected-by-outlying-taiwan-islands-in-referendum-vote https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-15/casinos-r...
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    His recollection is not wrong, Taiwan didn't had a public election until the mid 90's, and even the 1996 one was a bit iffy, until 1987 Taiwan was under martial law, and until 86 you couldn't form political parties. The Republic of China was a unitary state before and during the "communist rebellion", it continued to be a unitary state after it until 1991 (and until 2000 technically the KMT still "ruled" Taiwan) when the National Assembly which hasn't been (re)elected since 1948 voted itself out of office finally after about 10 years of some liberalization. Today Taiwan has a ridiculous number of political parties (nearly 300) with 3-4 of them actually having seats in the house, tho effectively Taiwan is a 2 party country with sweeping swings in number of seats and leadership between the Democratic Progressive Party and the Chinese National Party.
- elastic_church 10y ago
  Everyone that left or escaped Maoist China has an opinion of the mainland that is fixed in time, and is used to shape perception and policy towards the mainland that is completely incongruent with the sentiment on the mainland. Thats the only difference.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Well, China reinforces its Maoist image from time to time with goose stepping military parades that seem archaic today; then there is the bizarre censorship, and have you ever seen the cult of personality news cast at 7PM on CCTV? China does itself no favors in trying to shape a more modern updated perception of itself on the outside.
    - elastic_church 10y ago
      The only people that care live in a SAR or America. Okay that was an exaggeration, I would say the mainland sentiment isn't greatly concerned with the game of nations and are content with the role the grand administrators have assumed. I think it is a preoccupation of western minds, more so than of the minds of the people that actually live there.
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        If they do care, they definitely are messing it up. But you are right: almost all of China's posturing is for domestic consumption and thye are probably very unconcerned with their international image. china presents an image that is almost North Korean to the rest of the world, even though this is far from the truth. The current leadership, which came of age during the cultural revolution, is even worse than the previous leaders in this regard, and they probably don't realize how bad they look (with the fake hair dye, but everything else also).