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Hate to tell you, but JavaScript implementations virtually all rely on C or C++ as well. And it's not limited to the VM itself: check out npm "native extension

Hate to tell you, but JavaScript implementations virtually all rely on C or C++ as well. And it's not limited to the VM itself: check out npm "native extensions" like `json`. Not to mention glibc, or the OSes themselves. By your definition, nothing is safe. And you're right ;)

MichaelBurge 10y ago
That's the old "formal proofs are useless because the proof checker might have a bug" argument. It's not very persuasive.
- scott_karana 10y ago
  It's MaulingMonkey's argument ad absurdum is what is is :P
MaulingMonkey 10y ago
I'm aware. I note that Firefox is using some Rust code now - so perhaps that will change at some point, for at least one of the common JavaScript implementations, in the not too distant future. I don't imagine we'll see it for the majority within the decade - but who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I have less hope for the widespread adoption of OS kernels written in safer languages - given the general unwillingness to even use C++ there (although plenty of toy/'research' kernels in safer languages do exist.) Although maybe we'll see one within the next century? Perhaps a microkernel for use in containers? Of course, that still leaves bugs in the JITs, compilers, hardware, 'legacy' native interop, unsafe{} blocks, ...
- rat87 10y ago
  > I note that Firefox is using some Rust code now - so perhaps that will change at some point, for at least one of the common JavaScript implementations, in the not too distant future. I don't imagine we'll see it for the majority within the decade - but who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. Maybe I think currently there's no plan for it. Maybe after they finish servo to the degree where it supports all modern html features
pjmlp 10y ago
Historical accident, given that the better alternatives, for various reasons lost their market share to C and C++, while Sun and Microsoft had the dumb idea of not supporting the same AOT compilation to native code on their new languages from day one.

MichaelBurge 10y ago

That's the old "formal proofs are useless because the proof checker might have a bug" argument. It's not very persuasive.

scott_karana 10y ago
It's MaulingMonkey's argument ad absurdum is what is is :P

MaulingMonkey 10y ago

I'm aware. I note that Firefox is using some Rust code now - so perhaps that will change at some point, for at least one of the common JavaScript implementations, in the not too distant future. I don't imagine we'll see it for the majority within the decade - but who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I have less hope for the widespread adoption of OS kernels written in safer languages - given the general unwillingness to even use C++ there (although plenty of toy/'research' kernels in safer languages do exist.) Although maybe we'll see one within the next century? Perhaps a microkernel for use in containers? Of course, that still leaves bugs in the JITs, compilers, hardware, 'legacy' native interop, unsafe{} blocks, ...

rat87 10y ago
> I note that Firefox is using some Rust code now - so perhaps that will change at some point, for at least one of the common JavaScript implementations, in the not too distant future. I don't imagine we'll see it for the majority within the decade - but who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. Maybe I think currently there's no plan for it. Maybe after they finish servo to the degree where it supports all modern html features

pjmlp 10y ago

Historical accident, given that the better alternatives, for various reasons lost their market share to C and C++, while Sun and Microsoft had the dumb idea of not supporting the same AOT compilation to native code on their new languages from day one.