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In 2009 I bought my first Apple product: an 8GB 13" MacBook Pro that cost $3000 ($1000 for the extra 4gb, like a dumbass). Quite soon after I got an iPhone 3GS.

In 2009 I bought my first Apple product: an 8GB 13" MacBook Pro that cost $3000 ($1000 for the extra 4gb, like a dumbass). Quite soon after I got an iPhone 3GS. Now every computer in the house (family of four) is an Apple. Every phone is an Apple. Even AirPlay was an influencing factor in selecting a hi-fi receiver (HTR7065). Apple TVs sit next to actual TVs. Yesterday I replaced our fleet of TimeCapsules and Airports with Lumas. Despite their problems they are still better than the Apple product. Rumor has it Apple isn't working on Airports any more. Today, I began looking for a replacement for the 2009 MBP, which my 11yo son now uses. I started by looking at Microsoft Surface. In the present, Apple doesn't meet my needs and as I look to the future, when I will need a new machine, the MacBook "Pro" is more like a MacBook "Bling". Apple used to be an ecosystem. Now its just incremental phone updates.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
If you think MBPs have problems, it's nothing compared to the issues I've had with Surface. Microsoft really needs to execute much better in addition to creating innovative experiences, firmware and driver meltdowns aren't fun. Heck, Apple has become the "conservative" choice for a computer that is boring but will work with fewer problems. How we got here I have no idea.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  > If you think MBPs have problems, it's nothing compared to the issues I've had with Surface. Microsoft really needs to execute much better in addition to creating innovative experiences, firmware and driver meltdowns aren't fun. See, I've had the exact opposite experience with my Surface. Most of the people I know much prefer MacBooks but are exploring the possibility of switching to something in the surface line. I know some of my friends had initial issues with the Surface Book but now they love it after much needed updates. I think sometimes Microsoft pushes hardware out a little too early but, at least in my experience, they always make it a great experience even if it comes after several updates. But like Apple products it's usually best to wait until after the initial kinks work themselves out anyway.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Has the Surface Book stabilized yet? I really want to buy one but I keep hearing about their issues. My S3 is probably an abandoned puppy now but works really well... when it is working at all. MBPs are still the best computer one can get for a rock solid Windows experience; even the surface book trackpad (supposedly precision?) seems to not really compare to what comes on a MBP, and touch doesn't often fill in the gap. Over the last years, I've always regretted my PC purchases (4), but have never regretted my MBP purchases (3). It is really hard to come up with the courage to try again.
    - origami777 10y ago
      That is my feeling as well. I walk past the Microsoft store and look at the slick surface hardware and daydream about it being a good device and me using it, then I remember the many years of windows pain that I suffered. I keep walking.
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        Just to be clear, I have no problem with windows, just that it seems to run best on Apple hardware via bootcamp.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - IBM 10y ago
      This might answer your question. Written by a Mac user attempting this switch. https://medium.com/@searls/warm-takes-on-microsofts-surface-pro-4-580f77634d2c#.a7r13uiwu https://medium.com/@searls/warm-takes-on-microsofts-surface-...
    - jasonlotito 10y ago
      Personally, my experience with my Surface Book has been nothing but pleasure. I have the latest SB, and it's the best laptop I've had in a long time. It's well crafted, feels good working on it, and quick. And the battery life is awesome. I cannot express how impressed I've been with the battery life. And this isn't browsing the web. This is with Unity and Visual Studio open and actively working with it. Going back to my rMBP for work feels limiting and slow. There are workflow changes and difference I'm having to work through. They are different systems, after all. But it's been a good experience so far.
lobster_johnson 10y ago
It's not a rumour -- Apple has dissolved their internal router/networking group.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  I mean they never made any sort of official announcement and they still sell them, right? So wouldn't it technically still be a rumor or did I miss something? I agree with your assessment though. Seems dead.
  - lobster_johnson 10y ago
    No announcement, but an anonymous "source close to the company" according to e.g. The Guardian [1]. I think that's a bit more solid than a rumour, though Apple is secretive enough that it could also mean that they're planning a replacement product similar to Alexa, for example. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/22/apple-stops-making-wireless-airport-routers-shuts-division https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/22/apple-sto...
- tomschlick 10y ago
  Some have pointed out that Apple may be moving from the Airport to some sort of all in one Alexa/Google Home type device that also is your wireless router... Has anyone debunked that rumor?
  - johnsmith21006 10y ago
    Do not know about the all in one. But do have the Google Mesh three pack and really like it. It is pretty cool how it moves around connections and you do not even know. Network is faster but the app is what I really like. Now just roll over grab my tablet and see if the proper kids are at home. Also allows you see if who they said went home actually went home. How long until they figure how I know?
wyager 10y ago
> Now its just incremental phone updates. And the software side of those updates is bad. Apple hardware is probably better than ever. The mechanical engineering and precision involved blows away anyone else in consumer electronics. The new MacBooks and iPhones are truly works of art compared to the cheap injection-molded stuff everyone else is pumping out. But the software just keeps getting worse and worse. My iPhone (and those belonging to my friend and family with iPhones) regularly has strange graphics glitches and Springboard crashes. MacOS is a clusterf*ck with tons of poorly-implemented useless "features" and UI glitches. My suspicion is that Apple is hitting a level of software complexity where the development and maintenance costs of correct code are too high. I believe writing correct software has a super-linear cost; if you have N components in your code, you can expect something like O(N^2) cross-component interactions in your code, because any given piece of existing code is likely to interact with some portion of new code. I suspect Apple will have to change their software engineering practices if they hope to go back to a good level of quality and usability with a reasonable temporal and financial engineering budget.
- erichocean 10y ago
  > My suspicion is that Apple is hitting a level of software complexity where the development and maintenance costs of correct code are too high. Nope, just a lack of solid engineers. Anyone worth anything bailed years ago, and they're left with a used car salesman running the show (Craig Federighi). Holy Jesus is that guy a tool.
  - picklesman 10y ago
    How is he a tool? I didn't get that impression based on his demos and interviews I've heard
- jannyfer 10y ago
  Even if Apple hardware is a feat of mechanical engineering and precision, I don't want to upgrade my Macbook Air or iPhone 6 with an Apple product right now because nothing fits my needs. I want a phone with a flat back that won't rock on a desk without a case. I want a desktop with modern specs. I want a laptop with great battery life.
sporkologist 10y ago
> Now its just incremental phone updates. Don't forget the watch, and the advances in dongle technology.
rimantas 10y ago
> Now its just incremental phone updates. Feel free to move to another manufacturer which makes revolutionary upgrades with each release. If you find one. Or one which matches Apple's phone CPU.
hellofunk 10y ago
Forgive my ignorance but what is a Luma? I tried googling it but seems to be a common term.
- jaimebuelta 10y ago
  I guess is this one: https://lumahome.com https://lumahome.com
- michelb 10y ago
  A device like Eero, https://lumahome.com https://lumahome.com
elcct 10y ago
By the way, contrary to the popular belief, the "Pro" in the MacBook stands for "Prostate" not "Professional.
- sctb 10y ago
  This account has been posting uncivilly and unsubstantively, and we've asked you to stop before. Please post within the guidelines or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
bluedino 10y ago
>> ($1000 for the extra 4gb, like a dumbass) I looked back at a review of the 2009 MacBook because I didn't believe RAM was that expensive back then, but I was wrong: * To upgrade the RAM in the 2.26GHz model, which comes with just 2GB of RAM in its standard configuration, Apple charges an extra $100 for 4GB (a pair of 2GB modules) and $1,100 for 8GB (a pair of 4GB modules). The 2.53GHz model, which ships with 4GB of RAM can be purchased with the optional 8GB of memory for an additional $1,000. * The last unibody MacBook Pros that I owned, I upgraded to 8GB and 16GB for $35 and $79, respectively.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

If you think MBPs have problems, it's nothing compared to the issues I've had with Surface. Microsoft really needs to execute much better in addition to creating innovative experiences, firmware and driver meltdowns aren't fun. Heck, Apple has become the "conservative" choice for a computer that is boring but will work with fewer problems. How we got here I have no idea.

BinaryIdiot 10y ago
> If you think MBPs have problems, it's nothing compared to the issues I've had with Surface. Microsoft really needs to execute much better in addition to creating innovative experiences, firmware and driver meltdowns aren't fun. See, I've had the exact opposite experience with my Surface. Most of the people I know much prefer MacBooks but are exploring the possibility of switching to something in the surface line. I know some of my friends had initial issues with the Surface Book but now they love it after much needed updates. I think sometimes Microsoft pushes hardware out a little too early but, at least in my experience, they always make it a great experience even if it comes after several updates. But like Apple products it's usually best to wait until after the initial kinks work themselves out anyway.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Has the Surface Book stabilized yet? I really want to buy one but I keep hearing about their issues. My S3 is probably an abandoned puppy now but works really well... when it is working at all. MBPs are still the best computer one can get for a rock solid Windows experience; even the surface book trackpad (supposedly precision?) seems to not really compare to what comes on a MBP, and touch doesn't often fill in the gap. Over the last years, I've always regretted my PC purchases (4), but have never regretted my MBP purchases (3). It is really hard to come up with the courage to try again.
  - origami777 10y ago
    That is my feeling as well. I walk past the Microsoft store and look at the slick surface hardware and daydream about it being a good device and me using it, then I remember the many years of windows pain that I suffered. I keep walking.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      Just to be clear, I have no problem with windows, just that it seems to run best on Apple hardware via bootcamp.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - IBM 10y ago
    This might answer your question. Written by a Mac user attempting this switch. https://medium.com/@searls/warm-takes-on-microsofts-surface-pro-4-580f77634d2c#.a7r13uiwu https://medium.com/@searls/warm-takes-on-microsofts-surface-...
  - jasonlotito 10y ago
    Personally, my experience with my Surface Book has been nothing but pleasure. I have the latest SB, and it's the best laptop I've had in a long time. It's well crafted, feels good working on it, and quick. And the battery life is awesome. I cannot express how impressed I've been with the battery life. And this isn't browsing the web. This is with Unity and Visual Studio open and actively working with it. Going back to my rMBP for work feels limiting and slow. There are workflow changes and difference I'm having to work through. They are different systems, after all. But it's been a good experience so far.

lobster_johnson 10y ago

It's not a rumour -- Apple has dissolved their internal router/networking group.

BinaryIdiot 10y ago
I mean they never made any sort of official announcement and they still sell them, right? So wouldn't it technically still be a rumor or did I miss something? I agree with your assessment though. Seems dead.
- lobster_johnson 10y ago
  No announcement, but an anonymous "source close to the company" according to e.g. The Guardian [1]. I think that's a bit more solid than a rumour, though Apple is secretive enough that it could also mean that they're planning a replacement product similar to Alexa, for example. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/22/apple-stops-making-wireless-airport-routers-shuts-division https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/22/apple-sto...
tomschlick 10y ago
Some have pointed out that Apple may be moving from the Airport to some sort of all in one Alexa/Google Home type device that also is your wireless router... Has anyone debunked that rumor?
- johnsmith21006 10y ago
  Do not know about the all in one. But do have the Google Mesh three pack and really like it. It is pretty cool how it moves around connections and you do not even know. Network is faster but the app is what I really like. Now just roll over grab my tablet and see if the proper kids are at home. Also allows you see if who they said went home actually went home. How long until they figure how I know?

wyager 10y ago

> Now its just incremental phone updates. And the software side of those updates is bad. Apple hardware is probably better than ever. The mechanical engineering and precision involved blows away anyone else in consumer electronics. The new MacBooks and iPhones are truly works of art compared to the cheap injection-molded stuff everyone else is pumping out. But the software just keeps getting worse and worse. My iPhone (and those belonging to my friend and family with iPhones) regularly has strange graphics glitches and Springboard crashes. MacOS is a clusterf*ck with tons of poorly-implemented useless "features" and UI glitches. My suspicion is that Apple is hitting a level of software complexity where the development and maintenance costs of correct code are too high. I believe writing correct software has a super-linear cost; if you have N components in your code, you can expect something like O(N^2) cross-component interactions in your code, because any given piece of existing code is likely to interact with some portion of new code. I suspect Apple will have to change their software engineering practices if they hope to go back to a good level of quality and usability with a reasonable temporal and financial engineering budget.

erichocean 10y ago
> My suspicion is that Apple is hitting a level of software complexity where the development and maintenance costs of correct code are too high. Nope, just a lack of solid engineers. Anyone worth anything bailed years ago, and they're left with a used car salesman running the show (Craig Federighi). Holy Jesus is that guy a tool.
- picklesman 10y ago
  How is he a tool? I didn't get that impression based on his demos and interviews I've heard
jannyfer 10y ago
Even if Apple hardware is a feat of mechanical engineering and precision, I don't want to upgrade my Macbook Air or iPhone 6 with an Apple product right now because nothing fits my needs. I want a phone with a flat back that won't rock on a desk without a case. I want a desktop with modern specs. I want a laptop with great battery life.

sporkologist 10y ago

> Now its just incremental phone updates. Don't forget the watch, and the advances in dongle technology.

rimantas 10y ago

> Now its just incremental phone updates. Feel free to move to another manufacturer which makes revolutionary upgrades with each release. If you find one. Or one which matches Apple's phone CPU.

hellofunk 10y ago

Forgive my ignorance but what is a Luma? I tried googling it but seems to be a common term.

jaimebuelta 10y ago
I guess is this one: https://lumahome.com https://lumahome.com
michelb 10y ago
A device like Eero, https://lumahome.com https://lumahome.com

elcct 10y ago

By the way, contrary to the popular belief, the "Pro" in the MacBook stands for "Prostate" not "Professional.

sctb 10y ago
This account has been posting uncivilly and unsubstantively, and we've asked you to stop before. Please post within the guidelines or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

bluedino 10y ago

>> ($1000 for the extra 4gb, like a dumbass) I looked back at a review of the 2009 MacBook because I didn't believe RAM was that expensive back then, but I was wrong: * To upgrade the RAM in the 2.26GHz model, which comes with just 2GB of RAM in its standard configuration, Apple charges an extra $100 for 4GB (a pair of 2GB modules) and $1,100 for 8GB (a pair of 4GB modules). The 2.53GHz model, which ships with 4GB of RAM can be purchased with the optional 8GB of memory for an additional $1,000. * The last unibody MacBook Pros that I owned, I upgraded to 8GB and 16GB for $35 and $79, respectively.