6 ms·

The anti gridlock law is actually a great law that DOES stop gridlock. The problem is you need to get people to actually follow it and in california for some re

The anti gridlock law is actually a great law that DOES stop gridlock. The problem is you need to get people to actually follow it and in california for some reason no one does. In chicago we all know about this law and I had never seen gridlock the whole time I lived there (23 years). crazy right? not really. But to the people in LA it seems crazy to them. within a year of moving to LA, I saw gridlock. I had no idea this was still a problem in the united states. I thought it was only a 3rd world problem. But nope. In LA they have it. And it's becuase people block intersections here ALL THE FUCKING TIME. It's crazy. Why? I don't get it. Do LA drives really not know it causes gridlock? Or do they just not care. I remember talking to an uber driver who didn't even know what gridlock was, or why blocking intersectinos was bad. As someone from chicago, I was amazed. And even on HN, OP doesn't know that blocking intersections causes gridlock, it amazes me. I thought this was common knowledge. For some reason people in these gridlocked towns are skeptical that the law doesn't work. for example, in downtown LA they blocked one street for a festival and the entire downtown became gridlocked. Ive never seen traffic this bad IN MY ENTIRE LIFE. All because of people blocking intersections. I was able to walk 10 blocks faster than cars did. I saw cars sitting in place for an hour and more. It was crazy. I've never seen anything like it. And when the lights turned green people still blocked the intersection. THEY WERE SITTING IN GRIDLOCK AND STILL DIDN"T STOP BLOCKING INTERSECTINOS. Like wow. I was dumbfounded. How are LA drivers so bad at driving?? I was so glad to be on foot. It's a completely fair law; it's easy to follow, and it benefits everyone. blocking intersections DOES CAUSE GRIDLOCK. IF YOU STOP BLOCKING INTERSECTIONS, GRIDLOCK WILL GO AWAY. Get this through your head! the problem is people dont know about the law in california, and don't have the common sense to figure out themselves. it needs to be enforced more. LA has some of the worst gridlock problems ive ever seen.

mistermann 10y ago
I would appreciate if anyone can point to any noteworthy studies documenting the impact on traffic flow that avoidable gridlock can have, I would like to contact administrators in my city to get them to consider a public education campaign to teach drivers about turning lanes and pedestrians about walk signals. The combination of these two things means at rush hour we're often lucky if we get 2 cars at a time through a light (1 lane plus turning lane, driver trying to turn leaving his ass in the main lane preventing anyone else from passing, meanwhile pedestrians don't respect walking stop signal, so sometimes the turning driver can't even make it through after the light has turned red as then the main traffic is coming, as they even often have to wait for someone crossing).
nradov 10y ago
It's a good law, but not always easy to follow. Sometimes traffic is moving along slowly, and then suddenly stops when you're already into the intersection. This mainly happens when you're immediately behind a large vehicle like a city bus and can't see what's further up ahead.
- stanmancan 10y ago
  Yes but if traffic is moving slow and you're at a stale green light then you simply don't enter the intersection until you know you can get through it. Sure, you might miss the light, but blocking the intersection means everyone your blocking will miss it instead.
  - kagamine 10y ago
    Here in Europe people often enter roundabouts and junctions before the exits are clear and it is against traffic law, the reason given for it being a wrong thing to do is that there should be a clear path through for emergency vehicles. Surely that is reason enough to implement a law in US states?
    - kqr 10y ago
      Which part of Europe? According to everyone I know in Sweden (including myself) it is really frowned upon to do that. If you enter without being sure that you'll be able to exit in time you're a massive jerk.
      - kagamine 10y ago
        From the UK originally, now living in Norway. Norwegians drivers are 50% ok-ish but often irrational, 50% massive jerk imo.
        kwhitefoot 10y ago
        From the UK here too, I've been living in Norway for 30 years now and Norwegian drivers only really started to get the hang of roundabouts and pedestrian crossings (zebra crossings) about five years ago. In the Drammen area at least. Lost count of the number of times I have been almost run down on pedestrian crossings but it's much better now than it was. One thing that is very good here is that everyone gets out of the way of emergency vehicles very promptly.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Angostura 10y ago
There is a similar law in the UK, which works well and is enforced automatically through the use of ANR cameras at junctions. (As I know to my cost, since I misjudged and ended up stationary with my back wheels on the yellow hatching.)
Fnoord 10y ago
> The problem is you need to get people to actually follow it and in california for some reason no one does. This problem isn't specific to this law. There are many laws which aren't being enforced, but do exist. I'm from NL, and we're known for using bicycles a lot, and this is true. Yet bicyclers don't use their hand to show the way they go, they drive through red light, drive without light, and drive on the wrong side of the road all the time. And they get away with it because the cops aren't enforcing the rules. > It's a completely fair law; it's easy to follow, and it benefits everyone. blocking intersections DOES CAUSE GRIDLOCK. IF YOU STOP BLOCKING INTERSECTIONS, GRIDLOCK WILL GO AWAY. Get this through your head! Another reason it isn't working is due to selfishness plus ignorance. Inform drivers. Heck, teach it during driver license exams. So, 1) Inform the users (in this case the general public). 2) Enforce the rules. I would like to add laws need to be simple to explain, but I'm not so sure on how to describe that point.
- noxToken 10y ago
  I'm sure that people do know, but selfishness drives (pun not intended) people to do it. When there was a horrible freeze down here a few years back, traffic became gridlocked. Yes, the lack of traction caused issue, but the main problem was that everyone was hellbent on getting home without regard to how the flow of traffic normally works. I witnessed gridlock happen. At a particularly odd, 6-way intersection, people started edging the cars into the intersections. The light would change, cross traffic would get pissed, and then they'd edge around the blocking traffic creating a snaked grid. As cars moved out the way in the cross, the other section would block more and more until the whole intersection was blocked. It was a beautiful tragedy of bucket crabs[0] stopping progress for all. That's when I pulled into a nearby lot, called a friend, and just crashed with them for the night. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
CodeCube 10y ago
Similar in Manhattan ... every intersection has large signs that say, "Don't Block the Box". Driving there has made me more conscientious when driving in other areas that don't seem to enforce this at all.
nkrisc 10y ago
Block an intersection in Chicago and people will usually make you feel like you're a bad person and you did a bad thing. I've seen people nearly pull onto the sidewalk to get out of an intersection they were blocking.
Practicality 10y ago
For what it's worth, I was taught to sit in the intersection when making a left turn in driver's ed. Maybe it's an east west thing, but here is a video of a guy complaining about people who DON'T enter the intersection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_bcjCOzob4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_bcjCOzob4 Again, he is saying that the proper thing to do is to enter the intersection and sit, regardless. So, it seems like the issue may be that in some areas this behavior is promoted (even in drivers ed classes) and in others it's illegal. Of course, I am not from a large city that deals with gridlock, so that may be part of the difference.
- furyofantares 10y ago
  It annoys me as well when people don't enter the intersection on green when waiting for oncoming traffic to clear so that they can turn left. However I don't think it's related to the gridlock discussion unless the road you are turning onto is backed all the way up to the intersection, so that you will not be able to complete the turn even when oncoming traffic clears. In that case I believe you should not enter the intersection.
- sanderjd 10y ago
  If there is no space in the lane you're driving into, whether turning or going straight, you should not enter the intersection. That video just doesn't deal with the case of the lane you're turning into being full already.
- amalag 10y ago
  Your comment is not about gridlock.
- rconti 10y ago
  You're supposed to enter the intersection to make a restricted turn across oncoming traffic. Though I believe only one car should do it at a time. It's different from gridlock because you know that when the oncoming traffic stops, there is somewhere for your car to go.
  - ensignavenger 10y ago

mistermann 10y ago

I would appreciate if anyone can point to any noteworthy studies documenting the impact on traffic flow that avoidable gridlock can have, I would like to contact administrators in my city to get them to consider a public education campaign to teach drivers about turning lanes and pedestrians about walk signals. The combination of these two things means at rush hour we're often lucky if we get 2 cars at a time through a light (1 lane plus turning lane, driver trying to turn leaving his ass in the main lane preventing anyone else from passing, meanwhile pedestrians don't respect walking stop signal, so sometimes the turning driver can't even make it through after the light has turned red as then the main traffic is coming, as they even often have to wait for someone crossing).

nradov 10y ago

It's a good law, but not always easy to follow. Sometimes traffic is moving along slowly, and then suddenly stops when you're already into the intersection. This mainly happens when you're immediately behind a large vehicle like a city bus and can't see what's further up ahead.

stanmancan 10y ago
Yes but if traffic is moving slow and you're at a stale green light then you simply don't enter the intersection until you know you can get through it. Sure, you might miss the light, but blocking the intersection means everyone your blocking will miss it instead.
- kagamine 10y ago
  Here in Europe people often enter roundabouts and junctions before the exits are clear and it is against traffic law, the reason given for it being a wrong thing to do is that there should be a clear path through for emergency vehicles. Surely that is reason enough to implement a law in US states?
  - kqr 10y ago
    Which part of Europe? According to everyone I know in Sweden (including myself) it is really frowned upon to do that. If you enter without being sure that you'll be able to exit in time you're a massive jerk.
    - kagamine 10y ago
      From the UK originally, now living in Norway. Norwegians drivers are 50% ok-ish but often irrational, 50% massive jerk imo.
      - kwhitefoot 10y ago
        From the UK here too, I've been living in Norway for 30 years now and Norwegian drivers only really started to get the hang of roundabouts and pedestrian crossings (zebra crossings) about five years ago. In the Drammen area at least. Lost count of the number of times I have been almost run down on pedestrian crossings but it's much better now than it was. One thing that is very good here is that everyone gets out of the way of emergency vehicles very promptly.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Angostura 10y ago

There is a similar law in the UK, which works well and is enforced automatically through the use of ANR cameras at junctions. (As I know to my cost, since I misjudged and ended up stationary with my back wheels on the yellow hatching.)

Fnoord 10y ago

> The problem is you need to get people to actually follow it and in california for some reason no one does. This problem isn't specific to this law. There are many laws which aren't being enforced, but do exist. I'm from NL, and we're known for using bicycles a lot, and this is true. Yet bicyclers don't use their hand to show the way they go, they drive through red light, drive without light, and drive on the wrong side of the road all the time. And they get away with it because the cops aren't enforcing the rules. > It's a completely fair law; it's easy to follow, and it benefits everyone. blocking intersections DOES CAUSE GRIDLOCK. IF YOU STOP BLOCKING INTERSECTIONS, GRIDLOCK WILL GO AWAY. Get this through your head! Another reason it isn't working is due to selfishness plus ignorance. Inform drivers. Heck, teach it during driver license exams. So, 1) Inform the users (in this case the general public). 2) Enforce the rules. I would like to add laws need to be simple to explain, but I'm not so sure on how to describe that point.

noxToken 10y ago
I'm sure that people do know, but selfishness drives (pun not intended) people to do it. When there was a horrible freeze down here a few years back, traffic became gridlocked. Yes, the lack of traction caused issue, but the main problem was that everyone was hellbent on getting home without regard to how the flow of traffic normally works. I witnessed gridlock happen. At a particularly odd, 6-way intersection, people started edging the cars into the intersections. The light would change, cross traffic would get pissed, and then they'd edge around the blocking traffic creating a snaked grid. As cars moved out the way in the cross, the other section would block more and more until the whole intersection was blocked. It was a beautiful tragedy of bucket crabs[0] stopping progress for all. That's when I pulled into a nearby lot, called a friend, and just crashed with them for the night. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

CodeCube 10y ago

Similar in Manhattan ... every intersection has large signs that say, "Don't Block the Box". Driving there has made me more conscientious when driving in other areas that don't seem to enforce this at all.

nkrisc 10y ago

Block an intersection in Chicago and people will usually make you feel like you're a bad person and you did a bad thing. I've seen people nearly pull onto the sidewalk to get out of an intersection they were blocking.

Practicality 10y ago

For what it's worth, I was taught to sit in the intersection when making a left turn in driver's ed. Maybe it's an east west thing, but here is a video of a guy complaining about people who DON'T enter the intersection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_bcjCOzob4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_bcjCOzob4 Again, he is saying that the proper thing to do is to enter the intersection and sit, regardless. So, it seems like the issue may be that in some areas this behavior is promoted (even in drivers ed classes) and in others it's illegal. Of course, I am not from a large city that deals with gridlock, so that may be part of the difference.

furyofantares 10y ago
It annoys me as well when people don't enter the intersection on green when waiting for oncoming traffic to clear so that they can turn left. However I don't think it's related to the gridlock discussion unless the road you are turning onto is backed all the way up to the intersection, so that you will not be able to complete the turn even when oncoming traffic clears. In that case I believe you should not enter the intersection.
sanderjd 10y ago
If there is no space in the lane you're driving into, whether turning or going straight, you should not enter the intersection. That video just doesn't deal with the case of the lane you're turning into being full already.
amalag 10y ago
Your comment is not about gridlock.
rconti 10y ago
You're supposed to enter the intersection to make a restricted turn across oncoming traffic. Though I believe only one car should do it at a time. It's different from gridlock because you know that when the oncoming traffic stops, there is somewhere for your car to go.
- ensignavenger 10y ago