7 ms·
Try flying first class, it addresses most of those concerns, albeit for a much higher price!
by eigenvalue 10y ago
Try flying first class, it addresses most of those concerns, albeit for a much higher price!
- nemo44x 10y agoThat's right. If anything flying can be the most dignified way of traveling. I just came back from a trip to Europe and was upgraded so I had access to a lounge with "free" massages, nice food and drinks and then boarded a plane where I had a seat that could be made into a bed and also had a table my wife and I could eat together at. And then enjoy the cheese cart and have a seat at the bar for another cocktail before laying down for a cat nap. The point is airlines are giving people options. Flying is unbelievably cheap if you want it to be but you get what you pay for - a safe flight in a moderately uncomfortable seat. People wanted cheap and they're getting it. I wish more airlines offered more classes of service though. Flying United to Europe you either have crummy economy (exit rows are fine but the service still is poor) or rather expensive first. More options for mid-tier service where you have larger, more comfortable seating and nice food options similar to Virgins "Premium Economy" service which is is quite nice at a reasonable ask for those that find a couple hundred dollars extra worth it. I find it worth it for 8 hour+ flights to have some extra comfort so I feel better when landing.
- rwc 10y agoPremium Economy cabins (better than domestic first class but not as nice as lie-flat business class seats) are coming to both Delta and American international flights in 2017.
- nemo44x 10y agoThat sounds excellent. I'm a United person (easiest airport to get to and they dominate it - Delta doesn't even have a terminal. EWR if you're interested) and I'm not sure they do. They are rolling out a new first class service which looks nice but no idea on improving to a Premium Economy cabin. Delta has impressed me lately. I may make the switch and just deal with the extra haul to JFK which is about 20 minutes more for me if United can't or won't improve their lousy, outdated aircraft for international flights to Europe. United does fly nicely outfitted aircraft to Asia and Australia but I don't get out that way nearly as much.
- steveklabnik 10y agoI live close to JFK, and rarely fly out of EWR for similar reasons as you, in the opposite direction. The Delta terminals are pretty nice; terminal 4 is looong, but much nicer than terminal 1.
- ubernostrum 10y agoUnited has not announced plans that I know of to add premium economy, but both United and AA nowadays tend to copy Delta, since Delta's been making a lot of money. Of the big three legacy carriers, Delta is currently the best combination of price and reliability. You know they want a bit of extra money for the slightly nicer experiences, and you know what you're going to get out of it. For international travel, though, I've been starting to avoid US carriers entirely in favor of flying the other country's airline (which is something you can do when living near a major international hub -- SFO, in my case). Often it's another small step up, and sometimes it's a big step up, compared to the US airlines.
- nemo44x 10y agoI travel enough where it only makes sense to use a domestic carrier. United is the most convenient for me so that's that. You're right though, airlines like British Airways and Virgin Atlantic are quite a bit more nice. United treats me pretty well as I have the highest status, however.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jeffwilcox 10y agoSadly the Delta product is more of a rebranding of Comfort Plus... more food service but not anything very comfortable. If they would just offer the equivalent of domestic Delta First as a premium economy that would be a start for me!
- TheRealDunkirk 10y agoYou and the grandparent are dancing around the increased costs. I just checked prices for the last flight I took to Europe, and the difference between economy and first class is (roughly) TEN TIMES. Hey, if $9,000 is to your budget what $900 is to mine, awesome! I've had first class once, for business, and, sure, it was great. I just wish they'd give us another couple of inches of legroom in economy. Just 2 inches! Take out, like 2 or 3 rows, and expand. I'm 6' and 250 lbs, and when someone reclines in front of me, the seat is literally 6 inches from my face! If they'd charge the extra for taking out those rows, the increase to the prices of the rest of the tickets would be minimal. I think they cram us in as tightly as humanly possible (literally) so that they can cajole more people into the first-class cabin and it's attendant price. It's not just awful; it's manipulative!
- wpietri 10y agoI'm with you. I have issues with the literal class dynamic of airlines regardless. But when I look at how much more I'd be paying per hour for a modestly more comfortable chair, I quickly get to "no way, not ever" territory. Hell, when I had my wisdom teeth out, it was only $400/hr for the general anesthetic and I said no to that. If I ever spend thousands just for my personal comfort, it's going to be on something I end up owning and using for years.
- zeroer 10y ago> Hell, when I had my wisdom teeth out, it was only $400/hr for the general anesthetic and I said no to that. You're a brave man. How was it?
- beachstartup 10y agoi had mine taken out with local+nitrous (as opposed to going completely under) because the anesthesiologist wasn't in that day (apparently an oral surgeon can do the gas, but not the knockout drugs). i remember the whole thing. it was surprising how much force they used but other than that it was fine. i remember i had my ipod with me and tripped out to music while getting my face drilled. as an adult it's probably better because there's no recovery time, they just take the nitrous away and you're good to drive yourself home (or to the pharmacy, to pick up your pain meds that you're definitely going to need) 2 minutes later. the 2-3 weeks following extraction are 1000x worse than the actual procedure, which isn't bad at all.
- diogenescynic 10y ago>People wanted cheap and they're getting it. Did you read the article? Because the entire point of the article is that people aren't actually getting it for cheaper.
- ubernostrum 10y agoThe article's argument is based on a known-false assumption. It assumes that people will automatically buy the next-highest fare bucket in order to avoid the horrors of Basic Economy, but the history of the airline business in the US over the past couple decades suggests that the vast majority of travelers will complain about how horrible the low-fare experience is, then book it anyway.
- mcphage 10y agoYou missed the point—when airlines introduce Basic Economy fares, they don't drop the price, they instead drop services. So at best, you're paying the same for poorer service, otherwise you're paying more for the same service. Either way, the cost of those services is going up.
- ubernostrum 10y agoThe article offered only one anecdote of a previous lowest fare price becoming the basic-economy fare price. Meanwhile, it presents as its main thesis that most people will spend more to not get basic economy, which is demonstrably false.
- mcphage 10y agoThe thing is, it doesn't matter if people will spend more or not. Say you regularly purchase something, and pay $10/lb for it. And you usually buy a 6 pound package. So you spend $60. And the one day you go into the store, and they tell you "We just introduced a new Basic Economy package!". It's still only $60, but now it's 5 pounds instead of 6. Or, for $12 more, you can upgrade to your previous 6 pound package. May you pay more to upgrade, maybe you pay the same—but either way, what used to be $10/lb is now $12/lb. The price went up.
- caf 10y agoIf anything flying can be the most dignified way of traveling. Hmm, I don't think first class on an aircraft has anything on the better ocean liners in the 'dignified' stakes - if you've got the time to burn.
- hyggyhhfdd 10y agoI don't think those ocean liners have anything on private jets when you take time into account.
- peteretep 10y ago> Flying United to Europe you > either have crummy economy > or rather expensive first Mmm, actually it's economy or business, whatever brand name they're giving it — it'll come up as a business fare in flight booking systems. Genuine First is becoming rarer and rarer (excepting what US domestic routes describe as that), as more and more airlines follow Virgin Atlantic's original lead of a business class (very almost) as good as First, and no First. Even the ME3 are cutting back (Etihad's The Residence as an exception) — Qatar have a First Class cabin only on their A380, and have nixed it from their A350s, Dreamliners, 777s etc
- nemo44x 10y agoYeah I was just using "First Class" as an enhanced level of service where you can expect a bed, decent food options served on actual plates and other niceties like a comfort kit and other things. I think they called it "Business First" before they switched to "Polaris".
- peteretep 10y agoI guess my poorly worded answer was trying to highlight a further collapse in options at the high end.
- rconti 10y agoThose upgrades don't exist for normal people anymore. They used to upgrade people just for the hell of it. I've got status on an airline and STILL never get upgrades. You've gotta travel constantly to ever be eligible for an upgrade.
- rhino369 10y agoYou've basically got to fly a lot AND fly full fare refundable tickets (easily twice as much as regular tickets). So it's basically only useful for business travelers who are on business. Once I got on United Gold, I could pick weird flights (undesireable times, maybe the shittier airport) that would automatically upgrade a full ticket to first class. But a full fare economy is basically the same price as a non-refundable first class. So it only works if a business is picking up the tab.
- inopinatus 10y agoOn most US domestic airlines, so-called "first class" gives me what other airlines call at most a premium economy seat, and does not improve the overall quality of customer service.