10 ms·

This is interesting academically, but I wouldn't buy a hacked-together TB2 enclosure. Thunderbolt 3 eGPU enclosures are available now, and are fully supported

This is interesting academically, but I wouldn't buy a hacked-together TB2 enclosure. Thunderbolt 3 eGPU enclosures are available now, and are fully supported by Intel and windows. They started at $500 with the Razer Core, but new models like the AkiTiO Node and Powercolor Devil Box are coming in at $299, shipping Q1 2017. More will likely be announced at CES this week. These TB3 enclosures have 400w+ power supplies, better cooling, and are large enough to fit large enthusiast GPUs like the Nvidia GTX 1080. You can plug a TB3 device into a TB2 laptop with a simple adapter. Apple sells theirs for $29; Chinese versions will be cheaper. Depending on what features the manufacturer decides to add to their device, TB3 eGPU enclosures can also charge your laptop, offer USB3 ports, gigabit ethernet, audio jacks, etc. The $299 models tend to be very bare-bones but there's no doubt that competition will lead to cheaper prices and more features over time. Again, watch for more at CES this week. Current list of TB3 eGPU enclosures: AKiTiO Node ($300) https://www.akitio.com/expansion/node https://www.akitio.com/expansion/node Asus ROG XG Station 2 (price unknown) https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards-Accessory/ROG-XG-STATION-2/ https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards-Accessory/ROG-XG-STATION... BizonBOX 3 ($650, probably because it says it works with Macs) https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox3-egpu.html/ https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox3-egpu.html/ Powercolor Devil Box ($300. Ugly, though.) http://www.powercolor.com/us/products_DevilBox_features.asp?id=1 http://www.powercolor.com/us/products_DevilBox_features.asp?... Razer Core ($500) http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth

archagon 10y ago
I would have certainly preferred to do this, but it would have involved a $2000 upgrade first! (Well, barring the TB3-to-TB2 adaptor approach, but I've seen almost no builds doing this.) Also, from what I've seen, there's a lot of uncertainty regarding eGPU support with TB3; many people have reported problems on TechInferno etc., and even AKiTiO is unclear about Mac support. (If you check the specs for the Node, you'll see that Macs are listed as unsupported. Does this mean OSX-only or BootCamp as well? Who knows?) Might be worth waiting a year for things to shake out. Also, I was optimizing in part for cheapness. Truly great gaming cards cost $300 and up, and $400 total was about as much as I was willing to pay for an upgrade.
- hendersoon 10y ago
  TB3 is supposed to be fully backwards compatible with TB2; it's just a different physical connector. That's why even Apple only charges $29 for the adapter. Waiting a year is way too much caution for me. I wouldn't pre-order anything, but once other people post it works I'd feel safe to proceed.
  - erik 10y ago
    These adapters support hooking TB2 devices to a TB3 host, but not the other way around. Intel initially announced that TB3 devices would be compatible with TB2 hosts, but it looks like they quietly dropped this feature. It's _really_ hard to find a reference on this though.
    - tarikjn 10y ago
      I thought the same thing as you, but it seems that at least some TB3 devices work with TB2 hosts, e.g. the LG 5K display: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207448 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207448
    - btgeekboy 10y ago
      This guy[0] seems to say it works with the Razer Core. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5l3y0a/egpu_my_experience_with_the_15_tmbp_2016_and_a_15/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5l3y0a/egpu_my_exper...
      - erik 10y ago
        Looks like I had the wrong impression. Thanks for the link!
- kopijahe 10y ago
  > If you check the specs for the Node, you'll see that Macs are listed as unsupported. Does this mean OSX-only or BootCamp as well? Who knows? BootCamp is fine. Watch this review by Linus for more details: https://youtu.be/JirCwapScUs?t=5m54s https://youtu.be/JirCwapScUs?t=5m54s
ctvo 10y ago
TB3 enclosures are also more expensive (and the affordable ones aren't readily available yet), have minimal performance gains[1] and have limited support on MacOS. 1 - https://youtu.be/vvAB3U5umug?t=187 https://youtu.be/vvAB3U5umug?t=187
- hendersoon 10y ago
  I would completely discount the performance difference, totally agree. TB2 is plenty of bandwidth for an eGPU. $300 is affordable, and prices will come down further. If you want MacOS support, only that BizonBOX /says/ it will work. But I betcha they all will. I certainly wouldn't be the guinea pig, though-- wait for other people to try it out and post their experiences.
  - rounce 10y ago
    Bizon box is just a pre-prepared Akitio TB2.
    - hendersoon 10y ago
      Except it isn't manufactured by Akitio, and isn't thunderbolt 2, and has a much more powerful PSU, and can fit an 11" video card, and... wait, how are they the same?
      - rounce 10y ago
        Up until the most recent version it was an Akitio PCIE-to-TB2 board, prior models used a modified Akitio case. There was also a max card size previously on BizonBox2 (because it's an AkitioTB2) which is why they give you the options to "Remove front panel" for "long GPUs", something they seem to have fixed in the latest version 3 by scaling up an almost 1:1 reproduction of the Akitio TB2 case internals (flanges, screwholes and mounting points are still in very similar locations from what I can see). The "much more powerful PSU" you speak of appears to be a Dell DA-2 laptop power supply, which isn't that powerful compared to say an 800w ATX PSU. Tell me that this isn't an Akitio TB2 with holes drilled in the side: https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox2-egpu.html https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox2-egpu.html I've built a couple of these from Akitio and Sonnet enclosures (first one took ages to get working, otherwise it saved me from the huge disappointment of the most recent MBPr).
Gracana 10y ago
> This is interesting academically, but I wouldn't buy a hacked-together TB2 enclosure. Huh? The article is about a setup built using an AKiTiO PCIe box. You even mentioned that manufacturer as an alternative. I guess it's not officially "for eGPU use", but that's just a question of power, and a small SMPS brick is fine for that.
- hendersoon 10y ago
  He used an AKiTiO PCIe box that supports Thunderbolt 2. The model I posted is TB3, which Intel and windows both support for eGPUs. It also has a much more powerful power supply and can fit enthusiast-level video cards, rather than relying on the PCIe slot power capped at 75w.
blumentopf 10y ago
> You can plug a TB3 device into a TB2 laptop with a simple adapter. Apple sells theirs for $29; Chinese versions will be cheaper. Apple's adapter has turned out not to work on Linux. It might not work with BootCamp either. Seems to require a special driver: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189731 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189731
- hendersoon 10y ago
  That's what it feels like on the bleeding edge! Again, I wouldn't suggest being the first guy on the internet to try it. If the Apple adapter doesn't work, there are a bunch of others on Amazon, although they are a bit more expensive today. Prices will come down. But if you have a TB2 plug on your laptop, you probably have a Mac anyway.
newhouseb 10y ago
I spent a while trying to convince myself I could get away with a Mac Pro (Trashcan) hooked up to an external GPU to do VR & Deep Learning using a TB2 enclosure. After fighting for hours (days?) with how the PCI lanes were allocated on Windows, I finally got output to an external display, but it still ran below VR spec according to the various benchmarks. If you wanted to switch back and forth between Windows and Mac, it always required a few power cycles because Windows was constantly thinking it was reconfigured. I returned the whole thing and bought a beefy gaming PC, which now has an absurd amount of power in it (a 1080 + 2x970... I had forgotten how much fun it is to continually upgrade a machine). For power on the go, I have a Razer Blade with a 1060 in it. It's a shame, because I prefer to develop on a Mac, but I need modern hardware ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
- WildUtah 10y ago
  For power on the go, I have a Razer Blade with a 1060 in it. There are now alternatives for those that need power on the go.[0] Well, for number crunching power on the go, anyway. Won't help for gaming and 3D modeling. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12610804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12610804
  - ghostly_s 10y ago
    > Won't help for gaming and 3D modeling. So, entirely irrelevant to the situation described by the parent poster?
    - garrettgrimsley 10y ago
      No, because the parent poster also mentioned deep learning, which is number crunching.
- lucaspiller 10y ago
  One thing to bear in mind if you need raw power is the CPU is still going to be lacking in a notebook. The notebook class 6700HQ is clocked at a maximum of 3.5GHz vs 4.2GHz for the desktop class 6700K (and much more if you overclock it), and it's probably not going to run at that speed for long due to thermal limiting. I was considering getting the new MBP, but instead bought a used workstation. It has a Xeon E5-2670 (8 core/16 thread) and 32GB RAM, I stuck in an RX480 and now have a pretty good working and gaming machine for ~€800. Some games are still poorly optimised for multiple cores though (e.g. Arma 3), so single core performance is still the king for gaming.
hyperknot 10y ago
> You can plug a TB3 device into a TB2 laptop with a simple adapter. I don't know of any such adapter. Do they exist? The Apple one allows you to use TB2 devices with your new TB3 laptop, not the other way.
- abrowne 10y ago
  From Apple's Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter page http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL2AM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL2AM/A/thunderbolt-3-us... As a bidirectional adapter, it can also connect new Thunderbolt 3 devices to a Mac with a Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 port and macOS Sierra.
  - hyperknot 10y ago
    But it's impossible to even plug it in: it has a male USB-C and a female mini-DisplayPort sized plugs.
    - wrigby 10y ago
      Assuming the Thunderbolt 3 device has a type-C female on it, you could simply plug the TB3 connector on the dongle into the device, and use a TB2 male to male cable to connect it to the laptop.
      - hyperknot 10y ago
        I could never possibly come up with using a dongle that way, but you are right it can indeed fit when used like that at the device.
Dylan16807 10y ago
I don't understand, this is $300 for a box with a port adapter and a $35 power supply inside of it?
Zelmor 10y ago
There is no need for 400 watts of psu for new generation nvidia cards. Also, all the features you mentioned are already available in form of docks, which one might already have.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
- hendersoon 10y ago
  That's what people theorize, sure. Thing is, nobody can say what Intel actually charges, because they won't allow their licensees to disclose that information. Many have said TB3 fees are much lower than TB2, just to toss another rumor on the pile.

archagon 10y ago

I would have certainly preferred to do this, but it would have involved a $2000 upgrade first! (Well, barring the TB3-to-TB2 adaptor approach, but I've seen almost no builds doing this.) Also, from what I've seen, there's a lot of uncertainty regarding eGPU support with TB3; many people have reported problems on TechInferno etc., and even AKiTiO is unclear about Mac support. (If you check the specs for the Node, you'll see that Macs are listed as unsupported. Does this mean OSX-only or BootCamp as well? Who knows?) Might be worth waiting a year for things to shake out. Also, I was optimizing in part for cheapness. Truly great gaming cards cost $300 and up, and $400 total was about as much as I was willing to pay for an upgrade.

hendersoon 10y ago
TB3 is supposed to be fully backwards compatible with TB2; it's just a different physical connector. That's why even Apple only charges $29 for the adapter. Waiting a year is way too much caution for me. I wouldn't pre-order anything, but once other people post it works I'd feel safe to proceed.
- erik 10y ago
  These adapters support hooking TB2 devices to a TB3 host, but not the other way around. Intel initially announced that TB3 devices would be compatible with TB2 hosts, but it looks like they quietly dropped this feature. It's _really_ hard to find a reference on this though.
  - tarikjn 10y ago
    I thought the same thing as you, but it seems that at least some TB3 devices work with TB2 hosts, e.g. the LG 5K display: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207448 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207448
  - btgeekboy 10y ago
    This guy[0] seems to say it works with the Razer Core. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5l3y0a/egpu_my_experience_with_the_15_tmbp_2016_and_a_15/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5l3y0a/egpu_my_exper...
    - erik 10y ago
      Looks like I had the wrong impression. Thanks for the link!
kopijahe 10y ago
> If you check the specs for the Node, you'll see that Macs are listed as unsupported. Does this mean OSX-only or BootCamp as well? Who knows? BootCamp is fine. Watch this review by Linus for more details: https://youtu.be/JirCwapScUs?t=5m54s https://youtu.be/JirCwapScUs?t=5m54s

ctvo 10y ago

TB3 enclosures are also more expensive (and the affordable ones aren't readily available yet), have minimal performance gains[1] and have limited support on MacOS. 1 - https://youtu.be/vvAB3U5umug?t=187 https://youtu.be/vvAB3U5umug?t=187

hendersoon 10y ago
I would completely discount the performance difference, totally agree. TB2 is plenty of bandwidth for an eGPU. $300 is affordable, and prices will come down further. If you want MacOS support, only that BizonBOX /says/ it will work. But I betcha they all will. I certainly wouldn't be the guinea pig, though-- wait for other people to try it out and post their experiences.
- rounce 10y ago
  Bizon box is just a pre-prepared Akitio TB2.
  - hendersoon 10y ago
    Except it isn't manufactured by Akitio, and isn't thunderbolt 2, and has a much more powerful PSU, and can fit an 11" video card, and... wait, how are they the same?
    - rounce 10y ago
      Up until the most recent version it was an Akitio PCIE-to-TB2 board, prior models used a modified Akitio case. There was also a max card size previously on BizonBox2 (because it's an AkitioTB2) which is why they give you the options to "Remove front panel" for "long GPUs", something they seem to have fixed in the latest version 3 by scaling up an almost 1:1 reproduction of the Akitio TB2 case internals (flanges, screwholes and mounting points are still in very similar locations from what I can see). The "much more powerful PSU" you speak of appears to be a Dell DA-2 laptop power supply, which isn't that powerful compared to say an 800w ATX PSU. Tell me that this isn't an Akitio TB2 with holes drilled in the side: https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox2-egpu.html https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox2-egpu.html I've built a couple of these from Akitio and Sonnet enclosures (first one took ages to get working, otherwise it saved me from the huge disappointment of the most recent MBPr).

Gracana 10y ago

> This is interesting academically, but I wouldn't buy a hacked-together TB2 enclosure. Huh? The article is about a setup built using an AKiTiO PCIe box. You even mentioned that manufacturer as an alternative. I guess it's not officially "for eGPU use", but that's just a question of power, and a small SMPS brick is fine for that.

hendersoon 10y ago
He used an AKiTiO PCIe box that supports Thunderbolt 2. The model I posted is TB3, which Intel and windows both support for eGPUs. It also has a much more powerful power supply and can fit enthusiast-level video cards, rather than relying on the PCIe slot power capped at 75w.

blumentopf 10y ago

> You can plug a TB3 device into a TB2 laptop with a simple adapter. Apple sells theirs for $29; Chinese versions will be cheaper. Apple's adapter has turned out not to work on Linux. It might not work with BootCamp either. Seems to require a special driver: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189731 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189731

hendersoon 10y ago
That's what it feels like on the bleeding edge! Again, I wouldn't suggest being the first guy on the internet to try it. If the Apple adapter doesn't work, there are a bunch of others on Amazon, although they are a bit more expensive today. Prices will come down. But if you have a TB2 plug on your laptop, you probably have a Mac anyway.

newhouseb 10y ago

I spent a while trying to convince myself I could get away with a Mac Pro (Trashcan) hooked up to an external GPU to do VR & Deep Learning using a TB2 enclosure. After fighting for hours (days?) with how the PCI lanes were allocated on Windows, I finally got output to an external display, but it still ran below VR spec according to the various benchmarks. If you wanted to switch back and forth between Windows and Mac, it always required a few power cycles because Windows was constantly thinking it was reconfigured. I returned the whole thing and bought a beefy gaming PC, which now has an absurd amount of power in it (a 1080 + 2x970... I had forgotten how much fun it is to continually upgrade a machine). For power on the go, I have a Razer Blade with a 1060 in it. It's a shame, because I prefer to develop on a Mac, but I need modern hardware ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

WildUtah 10y ago
For power on the go, I have a Razer Blade with a 1060 in it. There are now alternatives for those that need power on the go.[0] Well, for number crunching power on the go, anyway. Won't help for gaming and 3D modeling. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12610804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12610804
- ghostly_s 10y ago
  > Won't help for gaming and 3D modeling. So, entirely irrelevant to the situation described by the parent poster?
  - garrettgrimsley 10y ago
    No, because the parent poster also mentioned deep learning, which is number crunching.
lucaspiller 10y ago
One thing to bear in mind if you need raw power is the CPU is still going to be lacking in a notebook. The notebook class 6700HQ is clocked at a maximum of 3.5GHz vs 4.2GHz for the desktop class 6700K (and much more if you overclock it), and it's probably not going to run at that speed for long due to thermal limiting. I was considering getting the new MBP, but instead bought a used workstation. It has a Xeon E5-2670 (8 core/16 thread) and 32GB RAM, I stuck in an RX480 and now have a pretty good working and gaming machine for ~€800. Some games are still poorly optimised for multiple cores though (e.g. Arma 3), so single core performance is still the king for gaming.

hyperknot 10y ago

> You can plug a TB3 device into a TB2 laptop with a simple adapter. I don't know of any such adapter. Do they exist? The Apple one allows you to use TB2 devices with your new TB3 laptop, not the other way.

abrowne 10y ago
From Apple's Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter page http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL2AM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL2AM/A/thunderbolt-3-us... As a bidirectional adapter, it can also connect new Thunderbolt 3 devices to a Mac with a Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 port and macOS Sierra.
- hyperknot 10y ago
  But it's impossible to even plug it in: it has a male USB-C and a female mini-DisplayPort sized plugs.
  - wrigby 10y ago
    Assuming the Thunderbolt 3 device has a type-C female on it, you could simply plug the TB3 connector on the dongle into the device, and use a TB2 male to male cable to connect it to the laptop.
    - hyperknot 10y ago
      I could never possibly come up with using a dongle that way, but you are right it can indeed fit when used like that at the device.

Dylan16807 10y ago

I don't understand, this is $300 for a box with a port adapter and a $35 power supply inside of it?

Zelmor 10y ago

There is no need for 400 watts of psu for new generation nvidia cards. Also, all the features you mentioned are already available in form of docks, which one might already have.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

hendersoon 10y ago
That's what people theorize, sure. Thing is, nobody can say what Intel actually charges, because they won't allow their licensees to disclose that information. Many have said TB3 fees are much lower than TB2, just to toss another rumor on the pile.