6 ms·

Yep, I'm familiar with everything you're saying. You definitely don't need language fluency to know that you're being treated differently...just time, and a bit

by timr 10y ago

Yep, I'm familiar with everything you're saying. You definitely don't need language fluency to know that you're being treated differently...just time, and a bit of social awareness. They aren't particularly subtle about it. But in my experience, this is also true of any place where your foreignness is advertised by your skin color or facial structure or height or whatever -- you're just going to be treated like a stranger, because, well, you are one. I've met a fair number of long-term expats now, and there's a group who have taken this personally, and now have a complex about never being "truly accepted"; then there are the ones who have embraced their otherness. Those latter folks are totally aware they're different, and they just decide that they're going to be themselves, but in Japan. They seem to get along quite well. I've met foreigners who run businesses, many who are married, and even a few who are involved in local government, organizing matsuri, and so on. Anyway, I'm not suggesting that it's easy, or that I'm in that latter group. I'm just saying that I've seen it, and it's possible, and that it seems to come most readily when you know and accept where you stand. (Also...for the record, I've heard this exact complaint from expats in every country I've ever visited, including Europe. I was once considering moving to the Netherlands, and I had a dozen lily-white expats telling me that the Dutch are great and friendly and incredibly polite, but it's just impossible to make native friends. So it's not just Japanese people.)

spiderfarmer 10y ago
> but it's just impossible to make native friends. So it's not just Japanese people This is sort of a "bubble" problem. Dutch people that are "settled" already have a loyal circle of friends and are not always looking to make more friends. There's also the problem that expats usually work in demanding jobs with lots of competition and not a lot free time. It's hard to make friends that way, especially if half of your colleagues are rushing to daycare to pick up their kids. If you were able to move out of that bubble, to a less populous / competitive area, you might find much more laid back people.
- timr 10y ago
  "This is sort of a "bubble" problem. Dutch people that are "settled" already have a loyal circle of friends and are not always looking to make more friends." This is always true, everywhere. Long-time residents of a place have a network of friends/family that newcomers don't have. It's not unique to the Dutch or the Japanese. This brings up a point I forgot: most expats are young, and have zero experience making friends outside of the social bubble of school. This is hard enough if you're just moving in your own country, but it's worse if you're moving to a place where you don't speak the language well. This is probably a source of a lot of the complaints about cultures being especially closed or unfriendly.
jbverschoor 10y ago
Many expats are complaining about this. However, their world consists of: 1) their expat colleagues 2) expat parties Good luck finding natives there. Also, it doesn't hurt to try and speak the language and understand the culture of a country you're living in.
- deleted 10y ago
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by timr 10y ago

spiderfarmer 10y ago

> but it's just impossible to make native friends. So it's not just Japanese people This is sort of a "bubble" problem. Dutch people that are "settled" already have a loyal circle of friends and are not always looking to make more friends. There's also the problem that expats usually work in demanding jobs with lots of competition and not a lot free time. It's hard to make friends that way, especially if half of your colleagues are rushing to daycare to pick up their kids. If you were able to move out of that bubble, to a less populous / competitive area, you might find much more laid back people.

timr 10y ago
"This is sort of a "bubble" problem. Dutch people that are "settled" already have a loyal circle of friends and are not always looking to make more friends." This is always true, everywhere. Long-time residents of a place have a network of friends/family that newcomers don't have. It's not unique to the Dutch or the Japanese. This brings up a point I forgot: most expats are young, and have zero experience making friends outside of the social bubble of school. This is hard enough if you're just moving in your own country, but it's worse if you're moving to a place where you don't speak the language well. This is probably a source of a lot of the complaints about cultures being especially closed or unfriendly.

jbverschoor 10y ago

Many expats are complaining about this. However, their world consists of: 1) their expat colleagues 2) expat parties Good luck finding natives there. Also, it doesn't hurt to try and speak the language and understand the culture of a country you're living in.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]