5 ms·

What the World Got Wrong About Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (2015)

62 points by bootload 10y ago

paulpauper 10y ago
wow...even though I don't agree with with the politics, the article is exceptionally well written and captures the complexity of Kareem's personality and life with as much richness as if I were there myself. Read the whole thing in one sitting without getting distracted, that's how good it was.
- RodericDay 10y ago
  What about his politics do you disagree with?
harry8 10y ago
There are some people who seem consistenly very different when you watch an un-edited interview they've given compared to some journalist reporting their impressions of that person. Kareem is like this. We can speculate why it's so. It's worth noting that the NYTimes would never run a story like this about /any/ democrat or republican politician. The way his discomfort with, well not fans so much as a man (and his young son) who recognized a famous person's face, was reported seems, well, to have the potential to be less than a fair reflection. All his sins of social interaction seem consistent with someone who freezes up a little when people are straight up rude to his face. The truth is probably more complex; I'm unlikely to ever meet Kareem or the author to know better. I just feel an actual transcript of discussion between Kareem and someone who is a little bit perceptive might be vastly more interesting reading.
pcunite 10y ago
"Magic (Johnson) made white people feel comfortable. With themselves." As a child being bullied by black people, seeing Magic Johnson made me believe what my mother taught me, "There is good in all races". Magic proved to me that we could all get along. Some of Kareem's comments in the article I find offensive. However, I forgive you Kareem. I wished you could forgive the white man and see him for what he is ... simply a man. Any man of any color or race has the potential to do great harm to anyone.
- rhizome 10y ago
  Kareem started college in the Jim Crow era, Magic in the mid-70s. Somewhat different frames of reference.
- 3131s 10y ago
  What offended you? I read the whole article and could only find one even mildly controversial comment: "He was certain that racism wouldn’t die until the racists did, and so was I. What I didn’t tell him was that I hoped it would be soon and that if I could help them along, I would be delighted. I wasn’t quite ready to pick up the gun, but I was intimate with the impulse." But that strikes me more as someone being honest about the hateful impulses that were instilled in him through repeated mistreatment. I see no evidence from the article that Kareem thinks anything negative about white men in general.
  - mistermann 10y ago
    I got the impression that he has quite a chip on his shoulder regarding race. I think maybe it's a good thing some people are like this, but maybe not.
    - rhizome 10y ago
      When I think someone's got "a chip on [their] shoulder," I try to step back and check my assumptions. If my rationale includes that many weasel words, I hope to realize that it may not be a thing that actually exists.
  - pcunite 10y ago
    >> What offended you? I'm not the perfect example of race issues for everyone and their experiences. But the comment I've quoted below was way out of alignment with my experience during Magic's prime. White people knew full well what black folks had gone through. They were very proud of what Magic was doing and saying. That is why he was liked. He was healing the nation. We could all come together. Later, and maybe because Magic made black guys look nice, white kids wanted to wear Jordan high-top shoes. I said, white kids. In fact, Michael Jackson was the coolest guy in the world at my school. That was my memory of the 80s and I find it offensive to hear something that put down a lot of my friends during this time period. My 2nd grade teacher was black and she made the white kids and black kids feel special. She also gave me a much deserved spanking! A white kid wanted to be black so he did not have to get a tan! But hey, we all have our feelings about the past. I'm just not sure how a much celebrated guy like Kareem can still feel this way. Kareem's comment: "I understood why people liked him," Abdul-Jabbar told me. "He had that great smile, so white people thought his life was O.K. They thought that racism had not affected him. They were wrong, of course." No, we thought Magic was cool because he could forgive others.
red_herring 10y ago
You must have him confused with someone else. His name is Roger Murdock. He's the co-pilot.
JohnnyConatus 10y ago
I am a huge fan of the Kareem/Magic era Lakers. I have read both of Kareem's autobiographies, Magic's autobiography, Jerry West's autobiography, and others. But I'm sick of Kareem's shit. While the article hints at it, I will say directly what they will not: Kareem endured much racism, as undoubtedly did his peers, but Kareem is also a petulant and self-absorbed. Ever since Kareem retired, he's been on a campaign to explain to the world how they just misunderstand him. For example, here's a NY Times article from 2004 with essentially the same "I'm misunderstood" through-line: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/25/sports/pro-basketball-a-legend-learns-that-he-needs-to-be-liked.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/25/sports/pro-basketball-a-le... Notice that 1) even Isaiah Thomas' was under the impression that "Abdul-Jabbar supposedly had time for no one", and 2) even after being thankful for the time Kareem gave Thomas, Thomas said "I never saw that side of him that a lot of people talk about." Consider also that no one in the NBA - prior to Thomas in 2004, 15 years after Kareem's retirement - was interested in employing him as a coach or execute. To quote the article: "So why has Abdul-Jabbar had only minimal involvement in the N.B.A. since he began lobbying for a return in 1995? It goes back to his reputation, which even he admits was somewhat well deserved."
- devoply 10y ago
  Some people have a certain personality and that's only compounded by environment. You can't say that it was his fault, because though we want to overcome our flaws we are who we are... we're wired for it at a very young age. Some development psychologists say at the age of 4 if a child is a certain way they will remain that way around their peers for life. So... that's just the human condition.
- throwaway-hn123 10y ago
  > But I'm sick of Kareem's shit. Kid, you're not close to worthy enough to address him by his first name. Show some respect, you entitled white cunt.
known 10y ago
Black parents are homeschooling their children to avoid racism http://qz.com/380153/black-parents-are-homeschooling-their-children-to-avoid-racism/ http://qz.com/380153/black-parents-are-homeschooling-their-c...
CalChris 10y ago
I try not to pay attention to what authors say about themselves. KAJ is very smart about many other things and I'm interested in that. This article was only necessary for selling a book. A buddy ran into him in Milan. He's more than cool in person and OK with that.
i_feel_great 10y ago
Sportsman, author, columnist and Bruce Lee cannon-fodder in 'Game of Death'. He was actually pretty good in that movie.

62 points by bootload 10y ago

wow...even though I don't agree with with the politics, the article is exceptionally well written and captures the complexity of Kareem's personality and life with as much richness as if I were there myself. Read the whole thing in one sitting without getting distracted, that's how good it was.

RodericDay 10y ago
What about his politics do you disagree with?

harry8 10y ago

There are some people who seem consistenly very different when you watch an un-edited interview they've given compared to some journalist reporting their impressions of that person. Kareem is like this. We can speculate why it's so. It's worth noting that the NYTimes would never run a story like this about /any/ democrat or republican politician. The way his discomfort with, well not fans so much as a man (and his young son) who recognized a famous person's face, was reported seems, well, to have the potential to be less than a fair reflection. All his sins of social interaction seem consistent with someone who freezes up a little when people are straight up rude to his face. The truth is probably more complex; I'm unlikely to ever meet Kareem or the author to know better. I just feel an actual transcript of discussion between Kareem and someone who is a little bit perceptive might be vastly more interesting reading.

pcunite 10y ago

"Magic (Johnson) made white people feel comfortable. With themselves." As a child being bullied by black people, seeing Magic Johnson made me believe what my mother taught me, "There is good in all races". Magic proved to me that we could all get along. Some of Kareem's comments in the article I find offensive. However, I forgive you Kareem. I wished you could forgive the white man and see him for what he is ... simply a man. Any man of any color or race has the potential to do great harm to anyone.

rhizome 10y ago
Kareem started college in the Jim Crow era, Magic in the mid-70s. Somewhat different frames of reference.
3131s 10y ago
What offended you? I read the whole article and could only find one even mildly controversial comment: "He was certain that racism wouldn’t die until the racists did, and so was I. What I didn’t tell him was that I hoped it would be soon and that if I could help them along, I would be delighted. I wasn’t quite ready to pick up the gun, but I was intimate with the impulse." But that strikes me more as someone being honest about the hateful impulses that were instilled in him through repeated mistreatment. I see no evidence from the article that Kareem thinks anything negative about white men in general.
- mistermann 10y ago
  I got the impression that he has quite a chip on his shoulder regarding race. I think maybe it's a good thing some people are like this, but maybe not.
  - rhizome 10y ago
    When I think someone's got "a chip on [their] shoulder," I try to step back and check my assumptions. If my rationale includes that many weasel words, I hope to realize that it may not be a thing that actually exists.
- pcunite 10y ago
  >> What offended you? I'm not the perfect example of race issues for everyone and their experiences. But the comment I've quoted below was way out of alignment with my experience during Magic's prime. White people knew full well what black folks had gone through. They were very proud of what Magic was doing and saying. That is why he was liked. He was healing the nation. We could all come together. Later, and maybe because Magic made black guys look nice, white kids wanted to wear Jordan high-top shoes. I said, white kids. In fact, Michael Jackson was the coolest guy in the world at my school. That was my memory of the 80s and I find it offensive to hear something that put down a lot of my friends during this time period. My 2nd grade teacher was black and she made the white kids and black kids feel special. She also gave me a much deserved spanking! A white kid wanted to be black so he did not have to get a tan! But hey, we all have our feelings about the past. I'm just not sure how a much celebrated guy like Kareem can still feel this way. Kareem's comment: "I understood why people liked him," Abdul-Jabbar told me. "He had that great smile, so white people thought his life was O.K. They thought that racism had not affected him. They were wrong, of course." No, we thought Magic was cool because he could forgive others.

red_herring 10y ago

You must have him confused with someone else. His name is Roger Murdock. He's the co-pilot.

JohnnyConatus 10y ago

I am a huge fan of the Kareem/Magic era Lakers. I have read both of Kareem's autobiographies, Magic's autobiography, Jerry West's autobiography, and others. But I'm sick of Kareem's shit. While the article hints at it, I will say directly what they will not: Kareem endured much racism, as undoubtedly did his peers, but Kareem is also a petulant and self-absorbed. Ever since Kareem retired, he's been on a campaign to explain to the world how they just misunderstand him. For example, here's a NY Times article from 2004 with essentially the same "I'm misunderstood" through-line: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/25/sports/pro-basketball-a-legend-learns-that-he-needs-to-be-liked.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/25/sports/pro-basketball-a-le... Notice that 1) even Isaiah Thomas' was under the impression that "Abdul-Jabbar supposedly had time for no one", and 2) even after being thankful for the time Kareem gave Thomas, Thomas said "I never saw that side of him that a lot of people talk about." Consider also that no one in the NBA - prior to Thomas in 2004, 15 years after Kareem's retirement - was interested in employing him as a coach or execute. To quote the article: "So why has Abdul-Jabbar had only minimal involvement in the N.B.A. since he began lobbying for a return in 1995? It goes back to his reputation, which even he admits was somewhat well deserved."

devoply 10y ago
Some people have a certain personality and that's only compounded by environment. You can't say that it was his fault, because though we want to overcome our flaws we are who we are... we're wired for it at a very young age. Some development psychologists say at the age of 4 if a child is a certain way they will remain that way around their peers for life. So... that's just the human condition.
throwaway-hn123 10y ago
> But I'm sick of Kareem's shit. Kid, you're not close to worthy enough to address him by his first name. Show some respect, you entitled white cunt.

known 10y ago

Black parents are homeschooling their children to avoid racism http://qz.com/380153/black-parents-are-homeschooling-their-children-to-avoid-racism/ http://qz.com/380153/black-parents-are-homeschooling-their-c...

CalChris 10y ago

I try not to pay attention to what authors say about themselves. KAJ is very smart about many other things and I'm interested in that. This article was only necessary for selling a book. A buddy ran into him in Milan. He's more than cool in person and OK with that.

i_feel_great 10y ago

Sportsman, author, columnist and Bruce Lee cannon-fodder in 'Game of Death'. He was actually pretty good in that movie.