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I saw someone driving a Model X in Austin this weekend, car still had dealer tags. He was shooting selfies and clearly documenting himself riding in a car that

I saw someone driving a Model X in Austin this weekend, car still had dealer tags. He was shooting selfies and clearly documenting himself riding in a car that drives itself. I'm happy he's happy... but I have to say it was annoying to drive behind him. The software clearly didn't follow the flow of traffic; it was rigidly locked in going the speed limit. That may be OK, but it was a very empty weekend and everyone was going 10-15 miles over the speed limit. So had quite a chain of cars backed up behind him and like a half-mile in front of him before the next car. It was clear the Tesla software wasn't smart enough to close the gap by accelerating above the posted limits, or move him over to the right-hand lane where he wouldn't block traffic -- we all ended up having to pass him on the right. I couldn't help but think, "Great... just what we need more of... simulated old people driving slow in the left-hand lanes and cars that encourage jackasses on their phones to take pictures instead of paying attention." But... to be clear, I still want one. =P

sib 10y ago
Wait, you mean the "autopilot" intentionally breaks the law by driving in the left lane not for passing purposes? That's... not good.
- gpm 10y ago
  I'm under the impression that with the current "autopilot" the driver chooses what lane to drive in/when to change lanes.
  - zhoujianfu 10y ago
    That is correct... you can use the turn signals while in autopilot to (sometimes, in my experience) have the Tesla switch lanes for you automatically, but currently the driver is always picking the lanes.
    - dbg31415 10y ago
      It also looked like the Tesla was susceptible to bullying. Meaning... if someone wants to cut in front of me... I don't have to choose to let them. But the Tesla seemed to welcome people cutting in front of it. I didn't get a clear look for very long, but a few times someone passed it and pulled in front of it they cut in too soon for the software's comfort so it applied the brakes. A human may do that as well, but realistically if I got passed on the right by a jerk who cut in front of me to show his anger for making him pass me... I probably would see he was going much faster than me and wouldn't slow down just because he was driving aggressive. But yeah, I still want one. Will be interesting to see how all this stuff plays out. I personally would like to see the Tesla do 3 things to avoid pissing off other drivers on the road (especially for the foreseeable future while we have mixed vehicles on the roads)... 1) Close the gap in front of it. If there aren't any cars in front of you, do like humans do and accelerate a bit above the posted limits. 10 MPH above posted seems reasonable, but I'm sure someone can come up with an algorithm for what is appropriate in a 35 vs an 85 zone. 2) Don't drive like an American. Drive smart, and only use the left-hand lane for passing. People in other countries tend to be better about this, I think Tesla needs to incorporate some Autobahn training into their software. 3) Automatically repot to what it sees. We'd all be thankful if Teslas automatically reported to Waze, debris on the road, stopped cars, police ahead, etc. And took pictures and sent it in to the appropriate entity responsible for road maintenance. How cool of a service would that be for everyone if Tesla reported potholes and helped cities get more data around what needed to be fixed.
      - stale2002 10y ago
        People "cutting" ahead of you doesn't matter. You should not be worried about this. The Tesla should just drive safely, even if other people can get ahead.
      - jfoster 10y ago
        The idea that driving is competitive and there's bullying that needs to be handled is part of what's wrong with human drivers. Might other cars arrive a little ahead of you? Sure. Is that a problem that warrants significantly different and more dangerous driving behaviour? No.
xapata 10y ago
I drive the speed limit in the left lane (or any lane) and I'm only in my 30s. I've been doing that since my early 20s, both for safety and gas mileage. I pick the right-most lane that allows me to maintain a constant speed.
- dbg31415 10y ago
  You make the roads less safe by driving in such a way as to slow down traffic or make people pass you. You should always drive with the flow of traffic. If you're causing other people to use their brakes you're doing it wrong. Always remember that the safest people are the ones who are on the road the least amount of time.
  - matchbok 10y ago
    If you are using your brakes on a highway because of a driver in the right lane, you are doing it wrong. Please learn how to drive.
    - dbg31415 10y ago
      Just to be clear, there are minimums too for driving on the highway. It's up to the officer to determine (based on weather conditions, road conditions, vehicle conditions...) if someone is driving too slow. Just because you're in the right lane doesn't mean you can drive as slow as you want. Everyone should be going with the flow of traffic... the left-hand lane should be reserved for people who are "active drivers" using it to pass others.
  - xapata 10y ago
    You have an interesting notion of causality.
- grzm 10y ago
  I pick the right-most lane that allows me to maintain a constant speed. Please pick the right-most lane that does not back up traffic behind you. If traffic is backing up, it increases the likelihood of accidents. Vehicles that are close together for long periods of time are more likely to hit each other. Of course people should maintain proper following distance, but we need to take into account how people do drive, not how they should drive. The left-most lane should be kept free-flowing unless traffic is very heavy across all lanes.
taneq 10y ago
> It was clear the Tesla software wasn't smart enough to close the gap by accelerating above the posted limits You guys need to figure out whether the speed limit is wrong, or breaking it is wrong, because you're not being consistent.
- dpiers 10y ago
  Exceeding the posted speed limit isn't actually illegal in Texas. State law requires drivers to travel at a "reasonable and prudent" speed, and the posted limits serve as prima facie evidence that your speed may not be prudent/reasonable/illegal. If traffic is flowing at 5MPH over the posted limit, it would be reasonable and prudent to match speed with surrounding traffic.
  - gfosco 10y ago
    This is what it should be about. The spirit of the regulation, not the letter.
  - dbg31415 10y ago
    Thank you. In Texas, at least Travis County, you can go up to 25 MPH over the posted limit and be in the gray area of "safe and reasonable" -- that gray area is determined by weather conditions, other vehicles on the road, and condition of your vehicle. Technically 1 MPH over the posted limit could get you a ticket, but anything under 10 MPH over, assuming clear weather, is easy to claim that you were just going with the flow of traffic. (If you ever get hit by the speed trap on I35 in Kyle I've used this to get out of a ticket, going 80 in a 65.) The less you cause other drivers to have to change lanes, the better. The less traffic congestion you cause by driving slower than the flow of traffic, the better. This is compassionate driving. If Tesla makes cars that drive selfishly it's bad for Tesla -- it's not just about the person in the car, it's about the safety of everyone on the road. (But be careful, you'll get downvoted on here just for implying that you have ever been somewhere other than SF.)
  - jayd16 10y ago
    I'd much rather a strict rule and proper signage. At least at that point going the proper speed doesn't mean you can still get a ticket whenever a Texas cop feels like you deserve one.
dtech 10y ago
To me it feels like Texas is the exception rather than the rule here. I have no idea how the rest of the US is, but in the Netherlands if you go 10 mph (16 kmh) above the speed limit you'll often end up with a €121 ticket in your mail since speed cameras are ubiquitous. To be fair speeding tickets are mostly used as an extra road tax here with a thin veil of safety, but I still wouldn't want to drive in a car that automatically decides to sent me €100+ tickets.
- revelation 10y ago
  Just because you don't remember a time without speed cameras doesn't mean they are ineffective and a "thin veil of safety". It's like vaccines, over time people seem to forget why we have them in the first place. France makes an excellent case study for this. They only implemented speed cameras and related safety measures around 2002/2003 but managed a remarkable drop in fatalities and average speeds [1][2]. Speed is insidious; we live in a three-dimensional world so drag increases quadratically with velocity, or going at 40mph requires four times as much power as at 20mph, and there is of course a corresponding increase in the kinetic energy in an impact. This is particularly important for pedestrians, where the difference between 20mph and 30mph is likely injury vs likely death. 1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23298692 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23298692 2: http://imgur.com/a/of7JV http://imgur.com/a/of7JV
  - dbg31415 10y ago
    > Just because you don't remember a time without speed cameras Sorry... I'm not even from Texas, but I've lived here for 12 years. I do love it. And I find so much of it hilarious. The government here does everything it can to put itself out of business. Speed cameras, for example, are banned in Texas. * Texas Transportation Code - TRANSP § 542.2035 | FindLaw || http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/transportation-code/transp-sect-542-2035.html http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/transportation-code/transp-sect-...
    - brianwawok 10y ago
      After having lived with red light cameras in Chicago and all the corruption that entailed... Go Texas.
sumedh 10y ago
> everyone was going 10-15 miles over the speed limit. Is that acceptable or are you breaking the law?
- brianwawok 10y ago
  Yes
- dbg31415 10y ago
  Acceptable, as long as safe. Texas allows for judgment calls up to 25 mph over posted limits.
Daviey 10y ago
If his car has HW1, then the strict adherence to the speed limit on non-highway roads only came out within the last 2 weeks. Prior to this update, AP would work up to 90 MPH and close gaps as needed - with the driver determining the peak speed. That said, the driver can still push the accelerator and go above the limit with AP still engaged.
- dbg31415 10y ago
  Sounds like it used to work better than it does now. Possibly why I just noticed the Tesla driving like a jerk recently. Seen them before but wasn't obviously in self-drive mode since they were keeping up with flow of traffic.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

sib 10y ago

Wait, you mean the "autopilot" intentionally breaks the law by driving in the left lane not for passing purposes? That's... not good.

gpm 10y ago
I'm under the impression that with the current "autopilot" the driver chooses what lane to drive in/when to change lanes.
- zhoujianfu 10y ago
  That is correct... you can use the turn signals while in autopilot to (sometimes, in my experience) have the Tesla switch lanes for you automatically, but currently the driver is always picking the lanes.
  - dbg31415 10y ago
    It also looked like the Tesla was susceptible to bullying. Meaning... if someone wants to cut in front of me... I don't have to choose to let them. But the Tesla seemed to welcome people cutting in front of it. I didn't get a clear look for very long, but a few times someone passed it and pulled in front of it they cut in too soon for the software's comfort so it applied the brakes. A human may do that as well, but realistically if I got passed on the right by a jerk who cut in front of me to show his anger for making him pass me... I probably would see he was going much faster than me and wouldn't slow down just because he was driving aggressive. But yeah, I still want one. Will be interesting to see how all this stuff plays out. I personally would like to see the Tesla do 3 things to avoid pissing off other drivers on the road (especially for the foreseeable future while we have mixed vehicles on the roads)... 1) Close the gap in front of it. If there aren't any cars in front of you, do like humans do and accelerate a bit above the posted limits. 10 MPH above posted seems reasonable, but I'm sure someone can come up with an algorithm for what is appropriate in a 35 vs an 85 zone. 2) Don't drive like an American. Drive smart, and only use the left-hand lane for passing. People in other countries tend to be better about this, I think Tesla needs to incorporate some Autobahn training into their software. 3) Automatically repot to what it sees. We'd all be thankful if Teslas automatically reported to Waze, debris on the road, stopped cars, police ahead, etc. And took pictures and sent it in to the appropriate entity responsible for road maintenance. How cool of a service would that be for everyone if Tesla reported potholes and helped cities get more data around what needed to be fixed.
    - stale2002 10y ago
      People "cutting" ahead of you doesn't matter. You should not be worried about this. The Tesla should just drive safely, even if other people can get ahead.
    - jfoster 10y ago
      The idea that driving is competitive and there's bullying that needs to be handled is part of what's wrong with human drivers. Might other cars arrive a little ahead of you? Sure. Is that a problem that warrants significantly different and more dangerous driving behaviour? No.

xapata 10y ago

I drive the speed limit in the left lane (or any lane) and I'm only in my 30s. I've been doing that since my early 20s, both for safety and gas mileage. I pick the right-most lane that allows me to maintain a constant speed.

dbg31415 10y ago
You make the roads less safe by driving in such a way as to slow down traffic or make people pass you. You should always drive with the flow of traffic. If you're causing other people to use their brakes you're doing it wrong. Always remember that the safest people are the ones who are on the road the least amount of time.
- matchbok 10y ago
  If you are using your brakes on a highway because of a driver in the right lane, you are doing it wrong. Please learn how to drive.
  - dbg31415 10y ago
    Just to be clear, there are minimums too for driving on the highway. It's up to the officer to determine (based on weather conditions, road conditions, vehicle conditions...) if someone is driving too slow. Just because you're in the right lane doesn't mean you can drive as slow as you want. Everyone should be going with the flow of traffic... the left-hand lane should be reserved for people who are "active drivers" using it to pass others.
- xapata 10y ago
  You have an interesting notion of causality.
grzm 10y ago
I pick the right-most lane that allows me to maintain a constant speed. Please pick the right-most lane that does not back up traffic behind you. If traffic is backing up, it increases the likelihood of accidents. Vehicles that are close together for long periods of time are more likely to hit each other. Of course people should maintain proper following distance, but we need to take into account how people do drive, not how they should drive. The left-most lane should be kept free-flowing unless traffic is very heavy across all lanes.

taneq 10y ago

> It was clear the Tesla software wasn't smart enough to close the gap by accelerating above the posted limits You guys need to figure out whether the speed limit is wrong, or breaking it is wrong, because you're not being consistent.

dpiers 10y ago
Exceeding the posted speed limit isn't actually illegal in Texas. State law requires drivers to travel at a "reasonable and prudent" speed, and the posted limits serve as prima facie evidence that your speed may not be prudent/reasonable/illegal. If traffic is flowing at 5MPH over the posted limit, it would be reasonable and prudent to match speed with surrounding traffic.
- gfosco 10y ago
  This is what it should be about. The spirit of the regulation, not the letter.
- dbg31415 10y ago
  Thank you. In Texas, at least Travis County, you can go up to 25 MPH over the posted limit and be in the gray area of "safe and reasonable" -- that gray area is determined by weather conditions, other vehicles on the road, and condition of your vehicle. Technically 1 MPH over the posted limit could get you a ticket, but anything under 10 MPH over, assuming clear weather, is easy to claim that you were just going with the flow of traffic. (If you ever get hit by the speed trap on I35 in Kyle I've used this to get out of a ticket, going 80 in a 65.) The less you cause other drivers to have to change lanes, the better. The less traffic congestion you cause by driving slower than the flow of traffic, the better. This is compassionate driving. If Tesla makes cars that drive selfishly it's bad for Tesla -- it's not just about the person in the car, it's about the safety of everyone on the road. (But be careful, you'll get downvoted on here just for implying that you have ever been somewhere other than SF.)
- jayd16 10y ago
  I'd much rather a strict rule and proper signage. At least at that point going the proper speed doesn't mean you can still get a ticket whenever a Texas cop feels like you deserve one.

dtech 10y ago

To me it feels like Texas is the exception rather than the rule here. I have no idea how the rest of the US is, but in the Netherlands if you go 10 mph (16 kmh) above the speed limit you'll often end up with a €121 ticket in your mail since speed cameras are ubiquitous. To be fair speeding tickets are mostly used as an extra road tax here with a thin veil of safety, but I still wouldn't want to drive in a car that automatically decides to sent me €100+ tickets.

revelation 10y ago
Just because you don't remember a time without speed cameras doesn't mean they are ineffective and a "thin veil of safety". It's like vaccines, over time people seem to forget why we have them in the first place. France makes an excellent case study for this. They only implemented speed cameras and related safety measures around 2002/2003 but managed a remarkable drop in fatalities and average speeds [1][2]. Speed is insidious; we live in a three-dimensional world so drag increases quadratically with velocity, or going at 40mph requires four times as much power as at 20mph, and there is of course a corresponding increase in the kinetic energy in an impact. This is particularly important for pedestrians, where the difference between 20mph and 30mph is likely injury vs likely death. 1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23298692 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23298692 2: http://imgur.com/a/of7JV http://imgur.com/a/of7JV
- dbg31415 10y ago
  > Just because you don't remember a time without speed cameras Sorry... I'm not even from Texas, but I've lived here for 12 years. I do love it. And I find so much of it hilarious. The government here does everything it can to put itself out of business. Speed cameras, for example, are banned in Texas. * Texas Transportation Code - TRANSP § 542.2035 | FindLaw || http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/transportation-code/transp-sect-542-2035.html http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/transportation-code/transp-sect-...
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    After having lived with red light cameras in Chicago and all the corruption that entailed... Go Texas.

sumedh 10y ago

> everyone was going 10-15 miles over the speed limit. Is that acceptable or are you breaking the law?

brianwawok 10y ago
Yes
dbg31415 10y ago
Acceptable, as long as safe. Texas allows for judgment calls up to 25 mph over posted limits.

Daviey 10y ago

If his car has HW1, then the strict adherence to the speed limit on non-highway roads only came out within the last 2 weeks. Prior to this update, AP would work up to 90 MPH and close gaps as needed - with the driver determining the peak speed. That said, the driver can still push the accelerator and go above the limit with AP still engaged.

dbg31415 10y ago
Sounds like it used to work better than it does now. Possibly why I just noticed the Tesla driving like a jerk recently. Seen them before but wasn't obviously in self-drive mode since they were keeping up with flow of traffic.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]