4 ms·

How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet (2014)

75 points by vezycash 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
laughfactory 10y ago
Old, but I missed it previously. It's horrifying to read that this kind of thing isn't practiced only against state actors. The risk here is that these techniques (and false news, for that matter) if over-used will inevitably make people doubt the veracity of everything they see online, in emails, and in texts. So the risk they run is that these tools go from profoundly effective to not effective at all. Already I find myself believing less and less of what I read online (for example). I would encourage government agents and agencies to exercise significant restraint in the use of these tactics in order to maintain the effectiveness of these tactics against truly bad actors, and to protect the integrity of the web.
- api 10y ago
  It's basically a Sybil attack on public discourse. Sybil attacks, when conducted for any reason, do in fact almost always lead to the destruction of the network being attacked.
  - wyager 10y ago
    > do in fact almost always lead to the destruction of the network being attacked. Only if the network relies on each identity corresponding to a "real" person. Some networks, such as Bitcoin, couldn't care less. Some networks can be DOSed, but not very well, and with simple mitigations, like Bittorent.
- wfo 10y ago
  This happened in a big way during the election -- the Clinton campaign poured millions into paid online supporters to go on reddit, etc. through an organization called Correct the Record. Once this became known every post in support of Clinton was suspect; people noticed similar comments appearing out of the woodwork, accounts which did nothing but post pro-Clinton comments. The entire politics subreddit turned into a lockstep echo chamber -- no anti-Clinton dissent of any kind allowed for a month or so before the election. Anyone who mentioned correct the record was instantly banned. I'm sure there was some amount of Record Correcting out there but the tragic part was that every single comment in support of Clinton no matter how earnest and honest and real was immediately suspect and accused of being a paid troll. It's impossible to have a real discussion when you are always wondering if the other side of the conversation is not arguing in good faith, and that's the exact climate this sort of thing creates.
  - striking 10y ago
    It sounds like a conspiracy theory or something but you can actually look at all the payouts from CTR here https://beta.fec.gov/data/disbursements/?two_year_transaction_period=2016&disbursement_purpose_categories=other&committee_id=C00578997&disbursement_description=%09SALARY%3A+NON-CONTRIBUTION+ACCOUNT&min_date=01%2F01%2F2015&max_date=12%2F31%2F2016 https://beta.fec.gov/data/disbursements/?two_year_transactio...
woogiewonka 10y ago
When climate change discussion was ripe, I saw evidence of mass manipulation via fake profiles on Yahoo news. It was so obvious and disgusting that I stopped reading commentary on news sites and eventually news entirely. I also see patterns of suspicious behavior on Reddit that could be attributed to social experiments by programs such as discussed in the article. I have no doubt political agendas are promoted through such programs all the time. Several years ago it was already as simple as having access to the right forums and you could get your hands on software for FB mass account creation which could be used for herding. It's really scary how much influence a single individual can possess online with the right tools and how easy it is to manipulate people. Imagine having access to 10 million pairs of eyeballs to manipulate as you please - such is possible on Facebook.
gerby 10y ago
I think that it's funny that they target what they call "Conspiracy Stories or Theories". The world should be inherently activist and sharing their experiences, to make our governments better. I was the victim of getting drugged and raped by what I believe was an intelligence agent when I was on vacation at Burning Man. She left her phone unlocked and I saw her texts to her handler. Saying I've "got info" and stuff, and this chick, very literally tried to probe a guy who throws red herrings for a living to protect the secrecy of my business. I thought I was secret enough that people took me serious but not literally who I wouldn't want to know, but actually take me seriously and literally. Scared the shit out of me. She could've been getting me into a honey trap to discredit and disrupt for economic reasons because I'm building the next Facebook, extremely secretively. I didn't even know what a honey trap was. She expected me to be easy to get in a compromising situation, thinking I would shag her, when in fact, I had a lovely partner at home that I promised I'd be loyal too and told the rapist at the start of the week at Burning Man, I couldn't do that with her. At the end of the week, she drugged me and raped me. Now my doctor wants to pre-empt the symptoms of PTSD because I shake when she verbally mentions me getting raped. Intelligence can be a good thing, but when they are picking and choosing who to like, and trying to harm with violent intent, and subsequently drugging and raping innocent innovators.. they're being totally fascist and scared of change. The private sector can do intelligence better and get people out on the streets, exercising their constitutional rights with Celestial Messaging..

75 points by vezycash 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Old, but I missed it previously. It's horrifying to read that this kind of thing isn't practiced only against state actors. The risk here is that these techniques (and false news, for that matter) if over-used will inevitably make people doubt the veracity of everything they see online, in emails, and in texts. So the risk they run is that these tools go from profoundly effective to not effective at all. Already I find myself believing less and less of what I read online (for example). I would encourage government agents and agencies to exercise significant restraint in the use of these tactics in order to maintain the effectiveness of these tactics against truly bad actors, and to protect the integrity of the web.

api 10y ago
It's basically a Sybil attack on public discourse. Sybil attacks, when conducted for any reason, do in fact almost always lead to the destruction of the network being attacked.
- wyager 10y ago
  > do in fact almost always lead to the destruction of the network being attacked. Only if the network relies on each identity corresponding to a "real" person. Some networks, such as Bitcoin, couldn't care less. Some networks can be DOSed, but not very well, and with simple mitigations, like Bittorent.
wfo 10y ago
This happened in a big way during the election -- the Clinton campaign poured millions into paid online supporters to go on reddit, etc. through an organization called Correct the Record. Once this became known every post in support of Clinton was suspect; people noticed similar comments appearing out of the woodwork, accounts which did nothing but post pro-Clinton comments. The entire politics subreddit turned into a lockstep echo chamber -- no anti-Clinton dissent of any kind allowed for a month or so before the election. Anyone who mentioned correct the record was instantly banned. I'm sure there was some amount of Record Correcting out there but the tragic part was that every single comment in support of Clinton no matter how earnest and honest and real was immediately suspect and accused of being a paid troll. It's impossible to have a real discussion when you are always wondering if the other side of the conversation is not arguing in good faith, and that's the exact climate this sort of thing creates.
- striking 10y ago
  It sounds like a conspiracy theory or something but you can actually look at all the payouts from CTR here https://beta.fec.gov/data/disbursements/?two_year_transaction_period=2016&disbursement_purpose_categories=other&committee_id=C00578997&disbursement_description=%09SALARY%3A+NON-CONTRIBUTION+ACCOUNT&min_date=01%2F01%2F2015&max_date=12%2F31%2F2016 https://beta.fec.gov/data/disbursements/?two_year_transactio...

woogiewonka 10y ago

When climate change discussion was ripe, I saw evidence of mass manipulation via fake profiles on Yahoo news. It was so obvious and disgusting that I stopped reading commentary on news sites and eventually news entirely. I also see patterns of suspicious behavior on Reddit that could be attributed to social experiments by programs such as discussed in the article. I have no doubt political agendas are promoted through such programs all the time. Several years ago it was already as simple as having access to the right forums and you could get your hands on software for FB mass account creation which could be used for herding. It's really scary how much influence a single individual can possess online with the right tools and how easy it is to manipulate people. Imagine having access to 10 million pairs of eyeballs to manipulate as you please - such is possible on Facebook.

gerby 10y ago

I think that it's funny that they target what they call "Conspiracy Stories or Theories". The world should be inherently activist and sharing their experiences, to make our governments better. I was the victim of getting drugged and raped by what I believe was an intelligence agent when I was on vacation at Burning Man. She left her phone unlocked and I saw her texts to her handler. Saying I've "got info" and stuff, and this chick, very literally tried to probe a guy who throws red herrings for a living to protect the secrecy of my business. I thought I was secret enough that people took me serious but not literally who I wouldn't want to know, but actually take me seriously and literally. Scared the shit out of me. She could've been getting me into a honey trap to discredit and disrupt for economic reasons because I'm building the next Facebook, extremely secretively. I didn't even know what a honey trap was. She expected me to be easy to get in a compromising situation, thinking I would shag her, when in fact, I had a lovely partner at home that I promised I'd be loyal too and told the rapist at the start of the week at Burning Man, I couldn't do that with her. At the end of the week, she drugged me and raped me. Now my doctor wants to pre-empt the symptoms of PTSD because I shake when she verbally mentions me getting raped. Intelligence can be a good thing, but when they are picking and choosing who to like, and trying to harm with violent intent, and subsequently drugging and raping innocent innovators.. they're being totally fascist and scared of change. The private sector can do intelligence better and get people out on the streets, exercising their constitutional rights with Celestial Messaging..