8 ms·

Does anyone have any good context for this? I.e., what are the political and economic implications of this? Does it even matter if Trump is so soft on Russia?

Does anyone have any good context for this? I.e., what are the political and economic implications of this? Does it even matter if Trump is so soft on Russia? Won't he just revert this decision in January?

mcphage 10y ago
> Won't he just revert this decision in January? He might, but now that the ball is in motion, it's the difference between him just doing nothing and letting it get swept under the rug, and him explicitly killing an active investigation against the recommendations of his intelligence organizations. It'll look a lot worse for him to do so.
- ams6110 10y ago
  Assuming his intelligence organizations hold to those recommendations. This whole thing smells of politics. Where was all this concern 2, 4, 6 years ago? You think cyber attacks weren't going on then?
  - mcphage 10y ago
    > This whole thing smells of politics. Where was all this concern 2, 4, 6 years ago? You think cyber attacks weren't going on then? It sounds like you're both complaining that the government is doing anything about cyber attacks, while also complaining that it hasn't done enough about cyber attacks.
    - yarou 10y ago
      I think he's complaining about the suspicious timing of the sanctions. In which case it would be 100% political.
      - mcphage 10y ago
        > In which case it would be 100% political. Suspicious timing? What's suspicious? Absolutely it's related to the formal sanctions of the US against Russia—what could that possibly be apart from politics?
        ams6110 10y ago
        My complaint about the timing. I expect we'll also soon see some news releases or official government statements from Moscow about NSA and CIA hacking of Russian cyber systems.
        yarou 10y ago
        Political against the incoming President-Elect. It's all the same, however. Multiple layers of intrigues between actors in the deep state. The common man suffers of course, because he no longer has any hope for a better life. Soon he won't have a job either, after we'vr finished building our synthetic God.
      - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
        Define "suspicious timing". People seem to forget that this has been in the news since much earlier this year.
        cloakandswagger 10y ago
        It made occasional appearances in the news earlier this year, but it was only after Trump won that they really put their foot on the gas with this McCarthyist hysteria.
        knowaveragejoe 10y ago
        I'm not sure "McCarthyist" is the correct term. Russia is, along with the US and China, one of the "big three" perpetrating state-sponsored cyberattacks.
        justaaron 10y ago
        "McCarthyist" is a very good term for the rhetorical sputum the WaPo, and NY-Times have been coughing up since the DNC primary put a certain neo-con Washington Mil/Intel complex friendly candidate in front and center. "Suspicious timing" is a perfect term for the distinct election-cycle correlate ratcheting-up of verbal belligerence coming from certain Washington Mil/Intel sectors of unproven allegations involving Russians and just about every malfeasance in current existence... (the dog ate my homework) I'm no Trump supporter, nor Republican supporter in general, but let me make absolutely clear that the Democratic party is as tied to the American War-n-Empire machine as the Republican party. Kennedy, despite his youthful charm, sent as many(or more) men of his own age or less to their death in Vietnam (to say nothing of Vietnamese casualties) as Nixon did. Clinton, Kerry, Feinstein, et al (the Senate Intel committee members certainly) are in lockstep march with the military machine, and indeed partially constitute it, on the political support side. Make no mistake: "liberals" who beat the war drum have blood on their hands, despite the domestic spin that their social policies provide. The total lack of global perspective and introspection regarding this Washington Insider fake left, fake humanitarian (LGBQT-friendly cluster bombs anyone?) pseudoliberal establishment fools very few people outside of the American Media Bubble. Clinton, Kerry, Feinstein, et al, also voted for both the Patriot Act (granting various nefarious and secret powers, totally unconstitutional on many levels...) and the Iraq War resolution... Let me be very clear: The WaPo and the NY-Times were some of the primary news sources spouting the WMD in Iraq nonsense that led to G.W. Bushs ill-advised 2003 invasion. They are a source of fake news. Let's cut the crap: Our Nobel-Peace-Prize winning president has us bombing 7 countries currently, that we have no declared wars with, by the way. He has not returned any of his predecessors ill-gotten powers, but rather has expanded them. In a way, it's fitting that Trump, as an impulsive dangerously juvenile "man", is the one to inherit the car keys as it's a perfect example of WHY we shouldn't be granting absolute power and "total informational awareness" to our already "out of check/balance" executive branch. I'm not one of those "constitutional fundamentalists", but its obvious as the nose on my face that the executive branch today has far more power than it was intended to: 1) every single armed force 2) every single intel agency foreign and domestic (and they don't stick to one or the other anymore) TL;DR: America is still behind it's cold-war "golden curtain" and continues to prosecute global empire and domination-based policies using foreign bogeymen to sway the populace into action they otherwise would be too comfortable to support. As an American currently residing in Europe it is clear to me that the snarky spin bubble created by hipster-friendly approaches to media is still part of the same propaganda machine. You can hire some PR specialists to California-up the image, but its the same stinky bastard at the controls...
  - Taniwha 10y ago
    Claiming that political things are political is a bit like complaining water is wet
  - sehugg 10y ago
    Well probably, but two years ago we were sanctioning them for a different reason, Crimea.
    - justaaron 10y ago
      same people, same motive. I have loads of friends in both Kiev and Moscow and the whole thing stinks. we (USA) stirred up the Maidan (CIA) in the first place, and aided in deposing Yanukovych and installing Poroshenko. The Crimean residents have largely been dual or Russian passport holders since WW2 anyway. It used to be full of Tatars, until Catherine the Great imported loyal Slovaks to help send them packing to central Asia, as there were loyalty issues vs the Ottomans. In any case, the whole "Russia is not gay friendly!" propaganda started to be emitted around that time... (as if traditional Slavic society was any different in Poland or Ukraine? as if Matthew Shepard wasn't beaten to death naked tied to a fence post in Wyoming USA...)
  - unclebucknasty 10y ago
    >This whole thing smells of politics I don't get this statement. Are you saying you don't believe the intelligence reports? Or, are you saying that we should do nothing, even if true?
    - 464192002d7fe1c 10y ago
      I'm saying I don't believe that their conclusions aren't politically motivated. If someone can show evidence beyond "trust us, we swear russia did it!" then I will.
  - fixxer 10y ago
    "Assuming his intelligence organizations hold to those recommendations." Assuming those orgs even remotely resemble the same things they are now after inauguration. Clinton gutted the CIA after he got into office.
- noobermin 10y ago
  > It'll look a lot worse for him to do so. Do you really think Donald Trump cares if it will look worse for him?
  - mcphage 10y ago
    No idea; I assume we'll find out in a month. It is, however, a wedge issue between Trump and the GOP congress.
slededit 10y ago
Its free negotiating leverage. Obama takes all the blame yet they are "giving" something to the Russians by reversing it. Only fair they give back.

mcphage 10y ago

> Won't he just revert this decision in January? He might, but now that the ball is in motion, it's the difference between him just doing nothing and letting it get swept under the rug, and him explicitly killing an active investigation against the recommendations of his intelligence organizations. It'll look a lot worse for him to do so.

ams6110 10y ago
Assuming his intelligence organizations hold to those recommendations. This whole thing smells of politics. Where was all this concern 2, 4, 6 years ago? You think cyber attacks weren't going on then?
- mcphage 10y ago
  > This whole thing smells of politics. Where was all this concern 2, 4, 6 years ago? You think cyber attacks weren't going on then? It sounds like you're both complaining that the government is doing anything about cyber attacks, while also complaining that it hasn't done enough about cyber attacks.
  - yarou 10y ago
    I think he's complaining about the suspicious timing of the sanctions. In which case it would be 100% political.
    - mcphage 10y ago
      > In which case it would be 100% political. Suspicious timing? What's suspicious? Absolutely it's related to the formal sanctions of the US against Russia—what could that possibly be apart from politics?
      - ams6110 10y ago
        My complaint about the timing. I expect we'll also soon see some news releases or official government statements from Moscow about NSA and CIA hacking of Russian cyber systems.
      - yarou 10y ago
        Political against the incoming President-Elect. It's all the same, however. Multiple layers of intrigues between actors in the deep state. The common man suffers of course, because he no longer has any hope for a better life. Soon he won't have a job either, after we'vr finished building our synthetic God.
    - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
      Define "suspicious timing". People seem to forget that this has been in the news since much earlier this year.
      - cloakandswagger 10y ago
        It made occasional appearances in the news earlier this year, but it was only after Trump won that they really put their foot on the gas with this McCarthyist hysteria.
        knowaveragejoe 10y ago
        I'm not sure "McCarthyist" is the correct term. Russia is, along with the US and China, one of the "big three" perpetrating state-sponsored cyberattacks.
        justaaron 10y ago
        "McCarthyist" is a very good term for the rhetorical sputum the WaPo, and NY-Times have been coughing up since the DNC primary put a certain neo-con Washington Mil/Intel complex friendly candidate in front and center. "Suspicious timing" is a perfect term for the distinct election-cycle correlate ratcheting-up of verbal belligerence coming from certain Washington Mil/Intel sectors of unproven allegations involving Russians and just about every malfeasance in current existence... (the dog ate my homework) I'm no Trump supporter, nor Republican supporter in general, but let me make absolutely clear that the Democratic party is as tied to the American War-n-Empire machine as the Republican party. Kennedy, despite his youthful charm, sent as many(or more) men of his own age or less to their death in Vietnam (to say nothing of Vietnamese casualties) as Nixon did. Clinton, Kerry, Feinstein, et al (the Senate Intel committee members certainly) are in lockstep march with the military machine, and indeed partially constitute it, on the political support side. Make no mistake: "liberals" who beat the war drum have blood on their hands, despite the domestic spin that their social policies provide. The total lack of global perspective and introspection regarding this Washington Insider fake left, fake humanitarian (LGBQT-friendly cluster bombs anyone?) pseudoliberal establishment fools very few people outside of the American Media Bubble. Clinton, Kerry, Feinstein, et al, also voted for both the Patriot Act (granting various nefarious and secret powers, totally unconstitutional on many levels...) and the Iraq War resolution... Let me be very clear: The WaPo and the NY-Times were some of the primary news sources spouting the WMD in Iraq nonsense that led to G.W. Bushs ill-advised 2003 invasion. They are a source of fake news. Let's cut the crap: Our Nobel-Peace-Prize winning president has us bombing 7 countries currently, that we have no declared wars with, by the way. He has not returned any of his predecessors ill-gotten powers, but rather has expanded them. In a way, it's fitting that Trump, as an impulsive dangerously juvenile "man", is the one to inherit the car keys as it's a perfect example of WHY we shouldn't be granting absolute power and "total informational awareness" to our already "out of check/balance" executive branch. I'm not one of those "constitutional fundamentalists", but its obvious as the nose on my face that the executive branch today has far more power than it was intended to: 1) every single armed force 2) every single intel agency foreign and domestic (and they don't stick to one or the other anymore) TL;DR: America is still behind it's cold-war "golden curtain" and continues to prosecute global empire and domination-based policies using foreign bogeymen to sway the populace into action they otherwise would be too comfortable to support. As an American currently residing in Europe it is clear to me that the snarky spin bubble created by hipster-friendly approaches to media is still part of the same propaganda machine. You can hire some PR specialists to California-up the image, but its the same stinky bastard at the controls...
- Taniwha 10y ago
  Claiming that political things are political is a bit like complaining water is wet
- sehugg 10y ago
  Well probably, but two years ago we were sanctioning them for a different reason, Crimea.
  - justaaron 10y ago
    same people, same motive. I have loads of friends in both Kiev and Moscow and the whole thing stinks. we (USA) stirred up the Maidan (CIA) in the first place, and aided in deposing Yanukovych and installing Poroshenko. The Crimean residents have largely been dual or Russian passport holders since WW2 anyway. It used to be full of Tatars, until Catherine the Great imported loyal Slovaks to help send them packing to central Asia, as there were loyalty issues vs the Ottomans. In any case, the whole "Russia is not gay friendly!" propaganda started to be emitted around that time... (as if traditional Slavic society was any different in Poland or Ukraine? as if Matthew Shepard wasn't beaten to death naked tied to a fence post in Wyoming USA...)
- unclebucknasty 10y ago
  >This whole thing smells of politics I don't get this statement. Are you saying you don't believe the intelligence reports? Or, are you saying that we should do nothing, even if true?
  - 464192002d7fe1c 10y ago
    I'm saying I don't believe that their conclusions aren't politically motivated. If someone can show evidence beyond "trust us, we swear russia did it!" then I will.
- fixxer 10y ago
  "Assuming his intelligence organizations hold to those recommendations." Assuming those orgs even remotely resemble the same things they are now after inauguration. Clinton gutted the CIA after he got into office.
noobermin 10y ago
> It'll look a lot worse for him to do so. Do you really think Donald Trump cares if it will look worse for him?
- mcphage 10y ago
  No idea; I assume we'll find out in a month. It is, however, a wedge issue between Trump and the GOP congress.

slededit 10y ago

Its free negotiating leverage. Obama takes all the blame yet they are "giving" something to the Russians by reversing it. Only fair they give back.