8 ms·

Word is far from being frustrating to learn nowadays but it does remain frustrating to operate efficiently.

Retric 10y ago
I get annoyed learning every new version of word. Change for change sake while annoying 1+ Billion people requires some serious sadists to be working for Microsoft.
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  The ribbon was the UI change that got the most people upset, but in retrospect, I feel it was complaint for complaint's sake. Once you learned to use it, I'd argue the ribbon is a vastly superior UI. While it is less customizable, and very obscure features can be harder to find, the most common features are better arranged, better presented, and more usable. There are some changes I dislike in newer versions of Office since, but I wonder how I'll feel about them down the line too.
  - greglindahl 10y ago
    As an intermittent Word user, I've never learned the ribbon. I could see how you could conclude that your complaining was for complaint's sake, but mine?
    - TylerH 10y ago
      I think he would probably say "I don't like it because I haven't taken any time to learn it" is complaining for complaining's sake.
      - greglindahl 10y ago
        Huh. As a software professional I stopped blaming the user for that a looong time ago.
        TeMPOraL 10y ago
        That's a learned disability in our industry, coming from the mindset of maximizing short-term business goals (like "paying user is always right" or "more 'intuitive' UI -> more people will like it initially -> more growth -> more $$$"). Vim and LaTeX were primarily made to be efficient tools, and thus don't shy away from requiring users to utilize the long forgotten skill of sitting on their butts and learning for goddamn 5 minutes, to the clock. Our industry-standard reasoning is good when all you make is cheap shiny toys that need to get popular quick to attract investor money. Much less so if you want to design software that empowers its users to do more. EDIT: Vim/LaTeX mention borrowed from parallel comment of 'beefield.
        greglindahl 10y ago
        I know that Emacs and LaTeX both have newcomer-friendly tutorials, that's how I learned them initially. In Vim, I only know about 5 commands, that's enough to get simple edits done when emacs is not installed. So I don't rate any of these as poor for new users, as long as the new users can find the tutorial. Let me give you an example of a complicated product where the user-interface can be made friendlier. I worked on a C/C++/Fortran compiler (PathScale) for a while. Users would compile non-standard-conforming programs, get the wrong answer, and then tell us that we had a bug in our compiler. I got the compiler guys to add some compilation flags for things like "use C argument aliasing rules in Fortran". Then when a user reported this class of bug, we had a section of the manual which said: "Compile with these flags. If you now see the correct answer, figure out which flag fixed your program, and then go read the appropriate paragraph in the manual explaining how your program is not standard-conforming." It worked great for both our in-house customer support people (who used it all the time) and customers (who might use it once or twice, usually after being prompted by our customer service people.)
      - beefield 10y ago
        I guess that means most of the complaints against vim & latex are then complaining for complaining's sake. (Not necessarily disagreeing, though...)
  - Stratoscope 10y ago
    I like the ribbon pretty well, although it was clearly designed in the days of 4:3 displays. Would be nice to have an option to put it on the side instead. The one thing I really dislike in Office 2013/2016 is the animated cursor. In Word it's just a distraction, but in Excel it is ludicrous: when I click on a cell, I'm looking at that cell, I'm not thinking about the cell the cursor used to be on at all, but for some reason Excel wants to draw my attention back to the previous cell just so I can watch the cursor box move. This is not something to benefit the user, it's a designer screaming "Look at me!" Fortunately, there is a way to turn off these Office animations and a lot of other animations too. Open the Ease of Access Center in the Windows control panel and select "Make the computer easier to see". There's an option there to "Turn off all unnecessary animations". This stops the animated cursor and some other animations in Office, and it also turns off the goofy Start menu animation. To my eyes it is a nice improvement.
    - ygra 10y ago
      http://hypftier.de/temp/2016-12-28_230236.jpg http://hypftier.de/temp/2016-12-28_230236.jpg might help too, I guess.
    - phjesusthatguy3 10y ago
      > I like the ribbon pretty well, although it was clearly designed in the days of 4:3 displays. This. The only reason I fire up any Office app these days is if something I'm doing has gone horribly wrong (as in, causing an Office app to be the best tool for the job) but if the ribbon was down the side of the screen instead of the top, I wouldn't be nearly so mad at it.
    - Slackwise 10y ago
      > although it was clearly designed in the days of 4:3 displays. Would be nice to have an option to put it on the side instead. I just double-click a menu item to collapse the entire bar, which ends up using the same space as an old school File menu would. Then I tap `Alt` to bring up the shortcut letters and tap them to activate features. It's incredibly fast and essentially modal. Gives me a good Vimy feel. Office 2013 and newer also has a full-screen mode which hides all the menus and lots of chrome, giving you mostly data. It's the only way to use Outlook and Excel with maximum screen efficiency.
  - kensai 10y ago
    Ribbon is brilliant. When nicely designed and really needed (in certain applications and only them!) it is the most important GUI evolution of the last years.
  - guidedlight 10y ago
    Interestingly, Word on MacOS has both the ribbon and the old menu interface
  - thom 10y ago
    I liked the ribbon once they added the search box, at which point you could mostly ignore the confusing and inconsistent layout of options and just treat the thing as a giant garish version of Emacs.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  The ribbon has been present since Office 2010 (or was it 2007?). I'm of the opinion that it was a great UX improvement, especially if you weren't used to 2003's UI. I don't recall many significant changes to options and features since the introduction of the ribbon, so it has made transitioning to newer versions much easier.
  - agumonkey 10y ago
    Some people linked the notion of user evolution pace. Evolving a system faster than their user is asking for troubles. Even if the ribbon was a beautiful idea, well executed by Microsoft; it imposed a massive relearning phase.
    - glhaynes 10y ago
      People seem to have kept up.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        Thus the rule oft forgotten in the UX circles - if your user has no alternative to switch to, they will learn the interface.
        __jal 10y ago
        ...Which explains every enterprise software UI ever made.
    - Cyph0n 10y ago
      I guess they had to make such a huge change eventually. I'm sure they weighed the benefits of improved UX for new users against the learning required for existing users. In any case, they had (and still have) a near-complete monopoly on office productivity software, so they wouldn't lose much either way. Worst case scenario is going back to the older UI if the backlash was too much.
  - TylerH 10y ago
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago
  > learning every new version of word I do appreciate Office maintaining support for all its legacy keyboard shortcuts in Word and Excel. Literally run Office in a Windows VM on my Mac for those shortcuts...
  - erichurkman 10y ago
    I've been using Mac for 6?+ years, and _still_ hit key combinations from Windows' Excel. It's getting better as Microsoft seems to marginally care about Mac with Office 365, but only barely, as it does improve with each update. It still feels a decade behind Excel for Windows.
nradov 10y ago
I think to actually operation Word efficiently you have to learn the object model which underlies documents. You don't necessary have to be able to program in it, but if you understand how the various objects are contained and composed together then the UI makes a lot more sense and it's usually easy to figure out how to get the desired effect on the page. Of course it may not be practical for casual users to learn the object model. While Word is still widely used today, I expect it to gradually fade away as people produce fewer documents for the printed page. Per-capital paper consumption in the USA has been slowly declining since 2008.
- salicideblock 10y ago
  The thing is, learning that model is often made more difficult by the wysiwig because it is hiding the model.
  - type0 10y ago
    Word is significantly harder to use efficiently than lets say Atom+Asciidoctor. Also Word version control is a living hell, in contrast with format like asciidoc one could use standalone tools like Mercurial and that is both powerful and easy to use.
    - ido 10y ago
      Have you tried teaching version control to non-programmers? I have, and I think you highly overestimated how easy to use mercurial or these other tools are.
      - adrianmsmith 10y ago
        I have various non-programmers (project managers, CEOs) checking files in and out of Subversion using TortoiseSVN on Windows and that works acceptably. About once a month they get stuck and need help but they use TortoiseSVN daily so that's still acceptable.
      - type0 10y ago

I get annoyed learning every new version of word. Change for change sake while annoying 1+ Billion people requires some serious sadists to be working for Microsoft.

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
The ribbon was the UI change that got the most people upset, but in retrospect, I feel it was complaint for complaint's sake. Once you learned to use it, I'd argue the ribbon is a vastly superior UI. While it is less customizable, and very obscure features can be harder to find, the most common features are better arranged, better presented, and more usable. There are some changes I dislike in newer versions of Office since, but I wonder how I'll feel about them down the line too.
- greglindahl 10y ago
  As an intermittent Word user, I've never learned the ribbon. I could see how you could conclude that your complaining was for complaint's sake, but mine?
  - TylerH 10y ago
    I think he would probably say "I don't like it because I haven't taken any time to learn it" is complaining for complaining's sake.
    - greglindahl 10y ago
      Huh. As a software professional I stopped blaming the user for that a looong time ago.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        That's a learned disability in our industry, coming from the mindset of maximizing short-term business goals (like "paying user is always right" or "more 'intuitive' UI -> more people will like it initially -> more growth -> more $$$"). Vim and LaTeX were primarily made to be efficient tools, and thus don't shy away from requiring users to utilize the long forgotten skill of sitting on their butts and learning for goddamn 5 minutes, to the clock. Our industry-standard reasoning is good when all you make is cheap shiny toys that need to get popular quick to attract investor money. Much less so if you want to design software that empowers its users to do more. EDIT: Vim/LaTeX mention borrowed from parallel comment of 'beefield.
        greglindahl 10y ago
        I know that Emacs and LaTeX both have newcomer-friendly tutorials, that's how I learned them initially. In Vim, I only know about 5 commands, that's enough to get simple edits done when emacs is not installed. So I don't rate any of these as poor for new users, as long as the new users can find the tutorial. Let me give you an example of a complicated product where the user-interface can be made friendlier. I worked on a C/C++/Fortran compiler (PathScale) for a while. Users would compile non-standard-conforming programs, get the wrong answer, and then tell us that we had a bug in our compiler. I got the compiler guys to add some compilation flags for things like "use C argument aliasing rules in Fortran". Then when a user reported this class of bug, we had a section of the manual which said: "Compile with these flags. If you now see the correct answer, figure out which flag fixed your program, and then go read the appropriate paragraph in the manual explaining how your program is not standard-conforming." It worked great for both our in-house customer support people (who used it all the time) and customers (who might use it once or twice, usually after being prompted by our customer service people.)
    - beefield 10y ago
      I guess that means most of the complaints against vim & latex are then complaining for complaining's sake. (Not necessarily disagreeing, though...)
- Stratoscope 10y ago
  I like the ribbon pretty well, although it was clearly designed in the days of 4:3 displays. Would be nice to have an option to put it on the side instead. The one thing I really dislike in Office 2013/2016 is the animated cursor. In Word it's just a distraction, but in Excel it is ludicrous: when I click on a cell, I'm looking at that cell, I'm not thinking about the cell the cursor used to be on at all, but for some reason Excel wants to draw my attention back to the previous cell just so I can watch the cursor box move. This is not something to benefit the user, it's a designer screaming "Look at me!" Fortunately, there is a way to turn off these Office animations and a lot of other animations too. Open the Ease of Access Center in the Windows control panel and select "Make the computer easier to see". There's an option there to "Turn off all unnecessary animations". This stops the animated cursor and some other animations in Office, and it also turns off the goofy Start menu animation. To my eyes it is a nice improvement.
  - ygra 10y ago
    http://hypftier.de/temp/2016-12-28_230236.jpg http://hypftier.de/temp/2016-12-28_230236.jpg might help too, I guess.
  - phjesusthatguy3 10y ago
    > I like the ribbon pretty well, although it was clearly designed in the days of 4:3 displays. This. The only reason I fire up any Office app these days is if something I'm doing has gone horribly wrong (as in, causing an Office app to be the best tool for the job) but if the ribbon was down the side of the screen instead of the top, I wouldn't be nearly so mad at it.
  - Slackwise 10y ago
    > although it was clearly designed in the days of 4:3 displays. Would be nice to have an option to put it on the side instead. I just double-click a menu item to collapse the entire bar, which ends up using the same space as an old school File menu would. Then I tap `Alt` to bring up the shortcut letters and tap them to activate features. It's incredibly fast and essentially modal. Gives me a good Vimy feel. Office 2013 and newer also has a full-screen mode which hides all the menus and lots of chrome, giving you mostly data. It's the only way to use Outlook and Excel with maximum screen efficiency.
- kensai 10y ago
  Ribbon is brilliant. When nicely designed and really needed (in certain applications and only them!) it is the most important GUI evolution of the last years.
- guidedlight 10y ago
  Interestingly, Word on MacOS has both the ribbon and the old menu interface
- thom 10y ago
  I liked the ribbon once they added the search box, at which point you could mostly ignore the confusing and inconsistent layout of options and just treat the thing as a giant garish version of Emacs.
Cyph0n 10y ago
The ribbon has been present since Office 2010 (or was it 2007?). I'm of the opinion that it was a great UX improvement, especially if you weren't used to 2003's UI. I don't recall many significant changes to options and features since the introduction of the ribbon, so it has made transitioning to newer versions much easier.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  Some people linked the notion of user evolution pace. Evolving a system faster than their user is asking for troubles. Even if the ribbon was a beautiful idea, well executed by Microsoft; it imposed a massive relearning phase.
  - glhaynes 10y ago
    People seem to have kept up.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      Thus the rule oft forgotten in the UX circles - if your user has no alternative to switch to, they will learn the interface.
      - __jal 10y ago
        ...Which explains every enterprise software UI ever made.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    I guess they had to make such a huge change eventually. I'm sure they weighed the benefits of improved UX for new users against the learning required for existing users. In any case, they had (and still have) a near-complete monopoly on office productivity software, so they wouldn't lose much either way. Worst case scenario is going back to the older UI if the backlash was too much.
- TylerH 10y ago
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
> learning every new version of word I do appreciate Office maintaining support for all its legacy keyboard shortcuts in Word and Excel. Literally run Office in a Windows VM on my Mac for those shortcuts...
- erichurkman 10y ago
  I've been using Mac for 6?+ years, and _still_ hit key combinations from Windows' Excel. It's getting better as Microsoft seems to marginally care about Mac with Office 365, but only barely, as it does improve with each update. It still feels a decade behind Excel for Windows.

nradov 10y ago

I think to actually operation Word efficiently you have to learn the object model which underlies documents. You don't necessary have to be able to program in it, but if you understand how the various objects are contained and composed together then the UI makes a lot more sense and it's usually easy to figure out how to get the desired effect on the page. Of course it may not be practical for casual users to learn the object model. While Word is still widely used today, I expect it to gradually fade away as people produce fewer documents for the printed page. Per-capital paper consumption in the USA has been slowly declining since 2008.

salicideblock 10y ago
The thing is, learning that model is often made more difficult by the wysiwig because it is hiding the model.
- type0 10y ago
  Word is significantly harder to use efficiently than lets say Atom+Asciidoctor. Also Word version control is a living hell, in contrast with format like asciidoc one could use standalone tools like Mercurial and that is both powerful and easy to use.
  - ido 10y ago
    Have you tried teaching version control to non-programmers? I have, and I think you highly overestimated how easy to use mercurial or these other tools are.
    - adrianmsmith 10y ago
      I have various non-programmers (project managers, CEOs) checking files in and out of Subversion using TortoiseSVN on Windows and that works acceptably. About once a month they get stuck and need help but they use TortoiseSVN daily so that's still acceptable.
    - type0 10y ago