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Super Mario games are way better than what they look at first glance, in my opinion. E.g. even the 16-bit SNES Super Mario World, with its modest looking by its

by faragon 10y ago

Super Mario games are way better than what they look at first glance, in my opinion. E.g. even the 16-bit SNES Super Mario World, with its modest looking by its time, has a huge amount of work below everything: the games are so good because there is way more than the first impression. Perfect game play, lots of secrets, pretty amount of freedom, etc. make you enjoy and love them over time. Pure genius, pretending being just simple video games.

ebbv 10y ago
How old were you in 1990? Because I was 12 and remember SMW's arrival very clearly. I had played video games enthusiastically for years. Super Mario World was not at all modest looking for its time. It was absolutely mind blowing. It was gorgeous and everything was so smooth, and the number of different animations Mario had, plus being able to ride Yoshi, it was a total revelation.
- cpach 10y ago
  For the record, it was only in Japan that SMW was released in 1990.
  - ebbv 10y ago
    Yep, but we started seeing images of it over here then. And I was lucky enough to have a friend who had a Super Famicom w/the Japanese edition. Even without being able to understand any of the tutorial blocks it was still amazing. (I know it sounds like I'm making that up but it's true. I knew at the time how lucky I was to be playing it early.) After playing his Super Famicom I was a little disappointed with the SNES hardware's purple buttons instead of the rainbow buttons on the Super Famicom.
    - cpach 10y ago
      Wonderful video game anecdote! I’m from Sweden so we had the rainbow buttons just like in Japan. The purple ones look super weird :D I hadn’t even started in 1st grade in 1990. I think SMW showed up on my radar in 1993 or so. Still love that game!
- faragon 10y ago
  SMW was released in 1990... in Japan. In Europe it was released in 1992, and I was 16 years old then, with knowledge about software (I started programming at 12). Anyway, in both 1990 and 1992 there were much better looking video games (richer backgrounds, etc.). My point was that SMW focused in playability and fun, instead of the color count and overloaded graphics.
  - ebbv 10y ago
    > Anyway, in both 1990 and 1992 there were much better looking video games (richer backgrounds, etc.). Maybe in the arcade, certainly not at home in 1990 and 1991, SMW was one of the best looking games of the time. Look at the games in 1990: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_in_video_gaming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_in_video_gaming Some of the best looking games of that year: SMB3 just came out to the US, SMW was light years beyond it. Bonk's Adventure was good looking for the time but doesn't hold a candle to SMW. On the PC we had the original Commander Keen, which while a great PC game of the era, doesn't even begin to approach the quality of SMW. Secret of Monkey Island was a beautiful game, but it is an adventure game. The screen is mostly static. SMW is far more impressive, being side scrolling and having parallax scrolling of multiple background layers (and occasionally foreground layers as you see in the forest.) Nothing in 1990 compares to SMW. If we jump forward to 1992 (by which point SMW is 2 years old): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_in_video_gaming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_in_video_gaming Then we see Wolf 3D come out for the PC, which was really impressive and of course changed everything. But it wasn't like it made SMW look dated (besides being FPS vs. side scroller, Wolf didn't have very many types of enemies, had static ceiling and floor, etc.) For side scrollers we have Ecco the Dolphin, which is a cool game but I don't think as visually complex as SMW. Mega Man 4 looks great but is not doing anything graphically that SMW hasn't already done. It has a different art style that you may personally prefer. On the Genesis we have Sonic the Hedgehog 2, which looks good but again doesn't have as much going on as SMW. I'm struggling to find these games that were much better looking. Can you give me some examples?
    - buzzybee 10y ago
      When someone is a European game snob of that era they are almost assuredly referring to Amiga games like those produced by Psygnosis(e.g. Shadow of the Beast) which have some gorgeous painterly work in them, make good use of the hardware, play smoothly with largish sprites, and on occasion, showcased parallax scrolling effects. There were some pretty solid side-scroller and shooter games made for that platform - it was the lead for "Another World", which was groundbreaking on a number of levels. And there were also many games on that platform that were mostly-static adventure games not of the Sierra or Lucasarts imprint, but beautiful looking all the same: Silmarils made some of those, as did Horrorsoft. That said, those kinds of games weren't actually the norm on the Amiga, either - there was far more low-end drek that threw higher fidelity, but artistically underwhelming, graphics on the screen sluggishly and semi-competently(ports from other platforms, licensed tie-ins). Console games did tend to have a higher average level of polish along most axes.
Scuds 10y ago
I'm watching chrontendo - a chronological exploration of all the games released for the Famicom/NES https://www.youtube.com/user/Chrontendo https://www.youtube.com/user/Chrontendo Super Mario did for video games like Star Wars did for sci-fi and special effects.
- Keyframe 10y ago
  Am I missing something? Where are (all of) episodes of Chrontendo? edit: nm, youtube's list has an electric boogaloo moment. Search within channel finds them just fine.
Donzo 10y ago
I don't recall the game being "modest looking" at the time. I remember being impressed with the greatly improved graphics and all of the beautiful colors. You have to consider Super Mario World as a predecessor to Super Mario Brothers 3. Perhaps removed from its historical context, it may look modest, but I was blown away at the time.
- bryondowd 10y ago
  Don't think predecessor is the right word there, or you swapped your titles. Super Mario Bros 3 came out 1-2 years earlier than Super Mario World, not the other way around.
- faragon 10y ago
  I'm aware that SMW is a SNES game, newer than SMB3 (NES). My point was that SMW is focused in playability and fun, and not in color count nor overloaded graphics (e.g. the SNES is able to show 32768 colors, while SMW color count is way far from that potential).
  - eropple 10y ago
    SMW looks good and they made good choices, but they weren't leaving that much in the tank (they even broke out Mode 7!). The SNES is theoretically able to show 32,768 colors through scanline trickery and/or color math, and has a sometimes-workable 256-color mode (but like its successor the GBA it's slow), but nearly everybody used the tile-based mode, where every 8x8 square was mapped to a 15-color palette. (I have spent entirely too much time in the guts of that thing. Send help. And liquor.)
  - JonnieCache 10y ago
    The reason it still looks good now is because they created a timeless art style with clear, readable sprites which didn't need many colors. Compare that with 16-bit era attempts at photorealism which look muddy today. The same is true of Metroid Prime on the gamecube, which looks better than some modern games despite hardware which was underpowered even at the time, due to masterful art direction.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cpach 10y ago
I totally agree regarding SMW, IMHO it’s one of the best video games of all time.
hiepph 10y ago
Yep, plus the background music :)
MrBuddyCasino 10y ago
Shigeru Miyamoto named SMW the game he was most proud of. I can see why that is. SMW, Super Mario Kart and The Legend Of Zelda on the SNES are milestones of the genre, never again has this level of perfection been reached in 2D gaming imho (excluding SMK here). The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past is no. 1 on some all-time best of lists. Maybe its the impression it made on many of us in our youth, but a year ago I played it again, and it was still great. The music, the art style, the controls - its the stuff that nostalgia is made of.
- grenoire 10y ago
  I recently started playing ALttP again too and one thing that was really neat to see was the hitboxes of the swords. You can only hold your sword in four directions but youcan riposte by bumping against your enemy's sword and then hit their body without touching their sword. The precision in the synchronisation of what's seen on the screen and what's actually happening was so simple, yet so fascinating.
- ralfd 10y ago
  When I replayed I found the ending really satisfying. A mesmerizing effect with the 3D Triforce, triumphant music that makes you feel like a hero and you revisit places in the game and see how you restored them to good (your uncle is well again!) When the credits come with some parallax background you watch them silently and with crazy respect for the team and only then switch off the Super Nintendo. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8JU0C_l4aac https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8JU0C_l4aac
- JonnieCache 10y ago
  Hyper Light Drifter, released this year, comes close for me. Imagine a cross between alttp and dark souls, with the art style and music of fez. It's superb. It's not as expansive or elaborate as the snes marios or zeldas, but the gameplay is very polished and deep, and the plot is... well I won't spoil it ;)
- Quarrelsome 10y ago
  SMK is 2D. Its like Doom or Wolfenstein in that its "pretend 3d".

by faragon 10y ago

ebbv 10y ago

How old were you in 1990? Because I was 12 and remember SMW's arrival very clearly. I had played video games enthusiastically for years. Super Mario World was not at all modest looking for its time. It was absolutely mind blowing. It was gorgeous and everything was so smooth, and the number of different animations Mario had, plus being able to ride Yoshi, it was a total revelation.

cpach 10y ago
For the record, it was only in Japan that SMW was released in 1990.
- ebbv 10y ago
  Yep, but we started seeing images of it over here then. And I was lucky enough to have a friend who had a Super Famicom w/the Japanese edition. Even without being able to understand any of the tutorial blocks it was still amazing. (I know it sounds like I'm making that up but it's true. I knew at the time how lucky I was to be playing it early.) After playing his Super Famicom I was a little disappointed with the SNES hardware's purple buttons instead of the rainbow buttons on the Super Famicom.
  - cpach 10y ago
    Wonderful video game anecdote! I’m from Sweden so we had the rainbow buttons just like in Japan. The purple ones look super weird :D I hadn’t even started in 1st grade in 1990. I think SMW showed up on my radar in 1993 or so. Still love that game!
faragon 10y ago
SMW was released in 1990... in Japan. In Europe it was released in 1992, and I was 16 years old then, with knowledge about software (I started programming at 12). Anyway, in both 1990 and 1992 there were much better looking video games (richer backgrounds, etc.). My point was that SMW focused in playability and fun, instead of the color count and overloaded graphics.
- ebbv 10y ago
  > Anyway, in both 1990 and 1992 there were much better looking video games (richer backgrounds, etc.). Maybe in the arcade, certainly not at home in 1990 and 1991, SMW was one of the best looking games of the time. Look at the games in 1990: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_in_video_gaming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_in_video_gaming Some of the best looking games of that year: SMB3 just came out to the US, SMW was light years beyond it. Bonk's Adventure was good looking for the time but doesn't hold a candle to SMW. On the PC we had the original Commander Keen, which while a great PC game of the era, doesn't even begin to approach the quality of SMW. Secret of Monkey Island was a beautiful game, but it is an adventure game. The screen is mostly static. SMW is far more impressive, being side scrolling and having parallax scrolling of multiple background layers (and occasionally foreground layers as you see in the forest.) Nothing in 1990 compares to SMW. If we jump forward to 1992 (by which point SMW is 2 years old): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_in_video_gaming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_in_video_gaming Then we see Wolf 3D come out for the PC, which was really impressive and of course changed everything. But it wasn't like it made SMW look dated (besides being FPS vs. side scroller, Wolf didn't have very many types of enemies, had static ceiling and floor, etc.) For side scrollers we have Ecco the Dolphin, which is a cool game but I don't think as visually complex as SMW. Mega Man 4 looks great but is not doing anything graphically that SMW hasn't already done. It has a different art style that you may personally prefer. On the Genesis we have Sonic the Hedgehog 2, which looks good but again doesn't have as much going on as SMW. I'm struggling to find these games that were much better looking. Can you give me some examples?
  - buzzybee 10y ago
    When someone is a European game snob of that era they are almost assuredly referring to Amiga games like those produced by Psygnosis(e.g. Shadow of the Beast) which have some gorgeous painterly work in them, make good use of the hardware, play smoothly with largish sprites, and on occasion, showcased parallax scrolling effects. There were some pretty solid side-scroller and shooter games made for that platform - it was the lead for "Another World", which was groundbreaking on a number of levels. And there were also many games on that platform that were mostly-static adventure games not of the Sierra or Lucasarts imprint, but beautiful looking all the same: Silmarils made some of those, as did Horrorsoft. That said, those kinds of games weren't actually the norm on the Amiga, either - there was far more low-end drek that threw higher fidelity, but artistically underwhelming, graphics on the screen sluggishly and semi-competently(ports from other platforms, licensed tie-ins). Console games did tend to have a higher average level of polish along most axes.

Scuds 10y ago

I'm watching chrontendo - a chronological exploration of all the games released for the Famicom/NES https://www.youtube.com/user/Chrontendo https://www.youtube.com/user/Chrontendo Super Mario did for video games like Star Wars did for sci-fi and special effects.

Keyframe 10y ago
Am I missing something? Where are (all of) episodes of Chrontendo? edit: nm, youtube's list has an electric boogaloo moment. Search within channel finds them just fine.

Donzo 10y ago

I don't recall the game being "modest looking" at the time. I remember being impressed with the greatly improved graphics and all of the beautiful colors. You have to consider Super Mario World as a predecessor to Super Mario Brothers 3. Perhaps removed from its historical context, it may look modest, but I was blown away at the time.

bryondowd 10y ago
Don't think predecessor is the right word there, or you swapped your titles. Super Mario Bros 3 came out 1-2 years earlier than Super Mario World, not the other way around.
faragon 10y ago
I'm aware that SMW is a SNES game, newer than SMB3 (NES). My point was that SMW is focused in playability and fun, and not in color count nor overloaded graphics (e.g. the SNES is able to show 32768 colors, while SMW color count is way far from that potential).
- eropple 10y ago
  SMW looks good and they made good choices, but they weren't leaving that much in the tank (they even broke out Mode 7!). The SNES is theoretically able to show 32,768 colors through scanline trickery and/or color math, and has a sometimes-workable 256-color mode (but like its successor the GBA it's slow), but nearly everybody used the tile-based mode, where every 8x8 square was mapped to a 15-color palette. (I have spent entirely too much time in the guts of that thing. Send help. And liquor.)
- JonnieCache 10y ago
  The reason it still looks good now is because they created a timeless art style with clear, readable sprites which didn't need many colors. Compare that with 16-bit era attempts at photorealism which look muddy today. The same is true of Metroid Prime on the gamecube, which looks better than some modern games despite hardware which was underpowered even at the time, due to masterful art direction.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

cpach 10y ago

I totally agree regarding SMW, IMHO it’s one of the best video games of all time.

hiepph 10y ago

Yep, plus the background music :)

MrBuddyCasino 10y ago

Shigeru Miyamoto named SMW the game he was most proud of. I can see why that is. SMW, Super Mario Kart and The Legend Of Zelda on the SNES are milestones of the genre, never again has this level of perfection been reached in 2D gaming imho (excluding SMK here). The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past is no. 1 on some all-time best of lists. Maybe its the impression it made on many of us in our youth, but a year ago I played it again, and it was still great. The music, the art style, the controls - its the stuff that nostalgia is made of.

grenoire 10y ago
I recently started playing ALttP again too and one thing that was really neat to see was the hitboxes of the swords. You can only hold your sword in four directions but youcan riposte by bumping against your enemy's sword and then hit their body without touching their sword. The precision in the synchronisation of what's seen on the screen and what's actually happening was so simple, yet so fascinating.
ralfd 10y ago
When I replayed I found the ending really satisfying. A mesmerizing effect with the 3D Triforce, triumphant music that makes you feel like a hero and you revisit places in the game and see how you restored them to good (your uncle is well again!) When the credits come with some parallax background you watch them silently and with crazy respect for the team and only then switch off the Super Nintendo. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8JU0C_l4aac https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8JU0C_l4aac
JonnieCache 10y ago
Hyper Light Drifter, released this year, comes close for me. Imagine a cross between alttp and dark souls, with the art style and music of fez. It's superb. It's not as expansive or elaborate as the snes marios or zeldas, but the gameplay is very polished and deep, and the plot is... well I won't spoil it ;)
Quarrelsome 10y ago
SMK is 2D. Its like Doom or Wolfenstein in that its "pretend 3d".