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I'm not sure that what people believe about Snowden is inextricably tied to people's perception of location tracking. In fact, I speculate that there are probab

by rmxt 10y ago

I'm not sure that what people believe about Snowden is inextricably tied to people's perception of location tracking. In fact, I speculate that there are probably some people who both think Snowden is a traitor and think that corporations or the government shouldn't be location tracking them. (That's ignoring the futility that is speaking in broad strokes about "the general public".) Furthermore, I am not sure that any of those are necessarily a given. I'm not advocating for breaking apps or an abrupt shift to no location services, I'm not dismissing your average end-user's needs/desires or insulting their intelligence. I'm hypothesizing that there might be ways to get non-GPS location services out of the hands of a few big players. It theoretically wouldn't make your phone cost more money, but it might take the time-money-effort of people who build the systems (maybe open-source?). I'm trying to appeal to the people who build the systems and brainstorm ways to do that, not really rally the end-users to this particular cause.

tw04 10y ago
>I'm trying to appeal to the people who build the systems and brainstorm ways to do that, not really rally the end-users to this particular cause. The people that "build the systems" are paid for by those corporations who make money by tracking you. Who exactly do you think is going to: A. Fund this new decentralized non-tracking utopia. B. Convince users already embedded in existing systems to switch to something less functional in order to not be tracked? EVERY project that's tried what you're describing has failed miserably because end-users just don't care. Can you cite even ONE example of a competing system that has focused on privacy that has garnered what can be considered even a modicum of success against an already entrenched player?
- rmxt 10y ago
  Fair points. Someone has to "pay", whether through effort or money, for the new systems to garner traction. I agree that it is hard to see where the momentum could or would come from, and no I cannot name an instance where something has garnered significant traction. Some of the alternative android location services are at least functioning for technical users. (https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_UnifiedNlp https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_UnifiedNlp) We return to my issue: does it being difficult and yet to be achieved mean that the people that are aware of potential drawbacks of the status quo should lay down and give up? That seems to be your implication.
  - tw04 10y ago
    No, my implication is it's (almost) an all-or nothing game. What good does it do me if out of all my friends and family, I'm the only one not using the popular services that track? So... the 2 hours a day I'm not with a family member or coworker or friend I can't be tracked? And to do so I literally have to disable everything on my phone manually (no more bluetooth streaming in the car, manually turn off the wifi on my phone every time I leave the house, somehow magically prevent the cell towers from tracking me). If you cannot get the general populous to agree and actively vote for privacy, you're fighting a battle that's already been lost.

by rmxt 10y ago

tw04 10y ago

>I'm trying to appeal to the people who build the systems and brainstorm ways to do that, not really rally the end-users to this particular cause. The people that "build the systems" are paid for by those corporations who make money by tracking you. Who exactly do you think is going to: A. Fund this new decentralized non-tracking utopia. B. Convince users already embedded in existing systems to switch to something less functional in order to not be tracked? EVERY project that's tried what you're describing has failed miserably because end-users just don't care. Can you cite even ONE example of a competing system that has focused on privacy that has garnered what can be considered even a modicum of success against an already entrenched player?

rmxt 10y ago
Fair points. Someone has to "pay", whether through effort or money, for the new systems to garner traction. I agree that it is hard to see where the momentum could or would come from, and no I cannot name an instance where something has garnered significant traction. Some of the alternative android location services are at least functioning for technical users. (https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_UnifiedNlp https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_UnifiedNlp) We return to my issue: does it being difficult and yet to be achieved mean that the people that are aware of potential drawbacks of the status quo should lay down and give up? That seems to be your implication.
- tw04 10y ago
  No, my implication is it's (almost) an all-or nothing game. What good does it do me if out of all my friends and family, I'm the only one not using the popular services that track? So... the 2 hours a day I'm not with a family member or coworker or friend I can't be tracked? And to do so I literally have to disable everything on my phone manually (no more bluetooth streaming in the car, manually turn off the wifi on my phone every time I leave the house, somehow magically prevent the cell towers from tracking me). If you cannot get the general populous to agree and actively vote for privacy, you're fighting a battle that's already been lost.