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It's worth pointing out that modern phones have at least a half dozen other means to determine your location. Not all methods require the phone to participate.

by imglorp 10y ago

It's worth pointing out that modern phones have at least a half dozen other means to determine your location. Not all methods require the phone to participate. Here's a few off the top. * CGI/CGI-TA/UTDOA via the cell network * bluetooth discovery * wifi AP's * audio via both mic and speaker, possibly ultrasonic: listen and emit to other devices in environment * NFC * magnetic field If you don't like this, you should turn it off and keep it in a metal box. http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/bluetooth-surveillance2.htm http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/bluetooth-surveillance2... http://www.skyhookwireless.com/about-skyhook http://www.skyhookwireless.com/about-skyhook http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-that-use-inaudible-sound-to-link-your-phone- http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-tha... tv-tablet-and-pc/ http://newatlas.com/magnetic-anomaly-indoor-positioning/23253 http://newatlas.com/magnetic-anomaly-indoor-positioning/2325...

sgift 10y ago
Or leave it at home. I did this for many years. It works and is about as inconvenient as using a metal box. (Though I have to admit that surfing while commuting is great ..)
- imglorp 10y ago
  I figure the Man knows where I work already. I spend hours telling him about it on my taxes. It really doesn't give out a ton of new information if you commute with a mobile. Unless you speed, I guess.
rmxt 10y ago
I see the "if you don't like it, don't use it" suggestion quite a bit. Can't we advocate for better public understanding of, and decentralization of, location services while also acknowledging that the best way right now is to leave it in a metal box turned off? The concepts of privacy and location services are at odds with one another, but reducing it to "love it or leave it" leaves the potential middle ground of preserving some privacy while reaping the benefits of location-aware information unexplored.
- tw04 10y ago
  The general public thinks Edward Snowden is a traitor who should be hanged. How exactly are you planning on getting them onboard this cause? Hey guys - this is going to make a bunch of your apps work poorly or not at all, but it protects you from something you aren't informed enough or smart enough to be scared of in the first place. Please support me? Oh, and by the way, it'll make your phone cost more money.
  - rmxt 10y ago
    I'm not sure that what people believe about Snowden is inextricably tied to people's perception of location tracking. In fact, I speculate that there are probably some people who both think Snowden is a traitor and think that corporations or the government shouldn't be location tracking them. (That's ignoring the futility that is speaking in broad strokes about "the general public".) Furthermore, I am not sure that any of those are necessarily a given. I'm not advocating for breaking apps or an abrupt shift to no location services, I'm not dismissing your average end-user's needs/desires or insulting their intelligence. I'm hypothesizing that there might be ways to get non-GPS location services out of the hands of a few big players. It theoretically wouldn't make your phone cost more money, but it might take the time-money-effort of people who build the systems (maybe open-source?). I'm trying to appeal to the people who build the systems and brainstorm ways to do that, not really rally the end-users to this particular cause.
    - tw04 10y ago
      >I'm trying to appeal to the people who build the systems and brainstorm ways to do that, not really rally the end-users to this particular cause. The people that "build the systems" are paid for by those corporations who make money by tracking you. Who exactly do you think is going to: A. Fund this new decentralized non-tracking utopia. B. Convince users already embedded in existing systems to switch to something less functional in order to not be tracked? EVERY project that's tried what you're describing has failed miserably because end-users just don't care. Can you cite even ONE example of a competing system that has focused on privacy that has garnered what can be considered even a modicum of success against an already entrenched player?
finid 10y ago
I chose to use mine as a camera, just like one wrote about at http://linuxbsdos.com/2016/11/05/the-samsung-android-tablet-that-will-never-access-the-internet/ http://linuxbsdos.com/2016/11/05/the-samsung-android-tablet-...
imglorp 10y ago
Here's a couple more. * Inertial navigation, using gyro and accelerometer to approximate movement since last known position. * Pressure sensor can give approximate Z axis (altitude). This is significant if your X,Y says you're in or near a tall building; combined with the Z, you confirm the building and the floor +/- a few floors.
camiller 10y ago
Also worth pointing out, my phone's location history regularly places me in a small Iowa town 53 miles away from my actual location in Nebraska. also often shows me making a trip through that Iowa location and on to another Nebraska location for a 113 mile trip at 241 MPH average speed, even though my actual trip was 12 or so miles all within Nebraska. I suspect, but cannot prove, that a wifi access point previously located in that Iowa town may have moved to my city but google still thinks it is in Iowa. Not particularly concerned.
powera 10y ago
Of course, these all reveal the location of your phone, not of you. It is possible to do things without a cell phone.

by imglorp 10y ago

sgift 10y ago

Or leave it at home. I did this for many years. It works and is about as inconvenient as using a metal box. (Though I have to admit that surfing while commuting is great ..)

imglorp 10y ago
I figure the Man knows where I work already. I spend hours telling him about it on my taxes. It really doesn't give out a ton of new information if you commute with a mobile. Unless you speed, I guess.

rmxt 10y ago

I see the "if you don't like it, don't use it" suggestion quite a bit. Can't we advocate for better public understanding of, and decentralization of, location services while also acknowledging that the best way right now is to leave it in a metal box turned off? The concepts of privacy and location services are at odds with one another, but reducing it to "love it or leave it" leaves the potential middle ground of preserving some privacy while reaping the benefits of location-aware information unexplored.

tw04 10y ago
The general public thinks Edward Snowden is a traitor who should be hanged. How exactly are you planning on getting them onboard this cause? Hey guys - this is going to make a bunch of your apps work poorly or not at all, but it protects you from something you aren't informed enough or smart enough to be scared of in the first place. Please support me? Oh, and by the way, it'll make your phone cost more money.
- rmxt 10y ago
  I'm not sure that what people believe about Snowden is inextricably tied to people's perception of location tracking. In fact, I speculate that there are probably some people who both think Snowden is a traitor and think that corporations or the government shouldn't be location tracking them. (That's ignoring the futility that is speaking in broad strokes about "the general public".) Furthermore, I am not sure that any of those are necessarily a given. I'm not advocating for breaking apps or an abrupt shift to no location services, I'm not dismissing your average end-user's needs/desires or insulting their intelligence. I'm hypothesizing that there might be ways to get non-GPS location services out of the hands of a few big players. It theoretically wouldn't make your phone cost more money, but it might take the time-money-effort of people who build the systems (maybe open-source?). I'm trying to appeal to the people who build the systems and brainstorm ways to do that, not really rally the end-users to this particular cause.
  - tw04 10y ago
    >I'm trying to appeal to the people who build the systems and brainstorm ways to do that, not really rally the end-users to this particular cause. The people that "build the systems" are paid for by those corporations who make money by tracking you. Who exactly do you think is going to: A. Fund this new decentralized non-tracking utopia. B. Convince users already embedded in existing systems to switch to something less functional in order to not be tracked? EVERY project that's tried what you're describing has failed miserably because end-users just don't care. Can you cite even ONE example of a competing system that has focused on privacy that has garnered what can be considered even a modicum of success against an already entrenched player?

finid 10y ago

I chose to use mine as a camera, just like one wrote about at http://linuxbsdos.com/2016/11/05/the-samsung-android-tablet-that-will-never-access-the-internet/ http://linuxbsdos.com/2016/11/05/the-samsung-android-tablet-...

imglorp 10y ago

Here's a couple more. * Inertial navigation, using gyro and accelerometer to approximate movement since last known position. * Pressure sensor can give approximate Z axis (altitude). This is significant if your X,Y says you're in or near a tall building; combined with the Z, you confirm the building and the floor +/- a few floors.

camiller 10y ago

Also worth pointing out, my phone's location history regularly places me in a small Iowa town 53 miles away from my actual location in Nebraska. also often shows me making a trip through that Iowa location and on to another Nebraska location for a 113 mile trip at 241 MPH average speed, even though my actual trip was 12 or so miles all within Nebraska. I suspect, but cannot prove, that a wifi access point previously located in that Iowa town may have moved to my city but google still thinks it is in Iowa. Not particularly concerned.

powera 10y ago

Of course, these all reveal the location of your phone, not of you. It is possible to do things without a cell phone.