3 ms·

> If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that? Yes, if your legal team denies it as overly broad. They

> If the police stands in front of my house with a warrant to search my belongings, can I refuse that? Yes, if your legal team denies it as overly broad. They can also file an injunction. This is why you call a lawyer as soon as the police arrive w/ a warrant or ask you questions. > Does it make sense if I have nothing to hide? Yes. Because you value your privacy of hobbies and speech. > I have nothing to hide. The average person breaks 3 laws a day. Whether that's speeding, texting while driving, having your friend over who left a dirty sock that smells like marijuana over. The police are "rewarded" when they find evidence of any crime, not just the one you are accused of. Not a great example of having nothing to hide, but a great example of a broad search that found an entirely different crime. Survivor contestant, Michael Skupin, was having financial documents searched by police when they found kiddie porn was sentenced yesterday.

gravypod 10y ago
Do you have a citation for the 3 times a day figure? I'm not disagreeing because I belive it's true. I'd just like to see some real data.
- laichzeit0 10y ago
  You left out the part where you also want an actual "peer reviewed study". Must be new to HN.
- jerf 10y ago
  Three crimes a day is probably a reference to this book: https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp... (I know it's better to provide references to web pages and not books, but I don't have a web page that recreates that book on hand. Suggestions welcome.) As I understand it, it's an estimate, not an actual figure. In order to perform such a survey, we'd have to sample people, record their entire daily activity, and determine how many crimes were committed. Determining how many crimes were committed would require an army of lawyers and private investigators... and that's the real point. As a normal citizen without an army of lawyers, you should have no confidence whatsoever that you are not committing crimes. If measured by "what could be used to convict you if the government wanted you out of the way" I'd guess 3 per day is a grotesque underestimate, at least one order of magnitude and I wouldn't bet much against 2.
  - KallDrexx 10y ago
    Hell just think of everyone going 5-10mph over the speed limit on any given road.
  - smileysteve 10y ago
    Thanks. !
- FrancoDiaz 10y ago
  I don't have a citation, but I think the CATO institute put it at 7 felonies a day.
- filoeleven 10y ago
  The vehicle code alone for my state is nearly three inches thick. If they want to pull you over, you will almost certainly give them a "valid" reason if they follow you for even just a few minutes. A friend of mine in law enforcement demonstrated this to me once while riding in my car. He had racked up four or five things on the car ahead of us (tailgating, crossing the fog line or center barrier, failure to signal within x yards of a turn, etc.) in under a mile.
fennecfoxen 10y ago
> This is why you call a lawyer as soon as the police arrive w/ a warrant or ask you questions. Pragmatic question regarding this type of advice. It's easy to say "call a lawyer", sure, but like many Americans under age 35, I do not presently have a lawyer in a meaningful sense of the term. (I had one once, for a very specific matter regarding a visa for another country - it was four-figure expensive - that relationship is now over.) Suppose the police show up at my door in half an hour. What do I actually do? Or, suppose that they're not showing up in half an hour but I'd like to be generally prepared. What steps can I take to do so while keeping the up-front pre-police-raid 'expensive' in the low to middle three figure sums, or thereabouts?
- Anechoic 10y ago
  1.) Talk to the lawyer you previously had a relationship with (assuming you think he is competent) and ask him for recommendations for a criminal lawyer. Keep the name(s) handy. 2.) In a real pinch, call your local public defender. They likely will not be able to get someone out to your place ASAP but they may be able to offer some advice. You can always follow-up with private counsel later.
- smileysteve 10y ago
  I imagine very few of us have a lawyer on retainer. Meet one at a party that you could call for advice in a pinch. The other alternative is LegalShield and such services.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
zubspace 10y ago
Yes, if your legal team denies it as overly broad. So this only applies to businesses and wealthy individuals? If this is the case, we already lost the fight for equal rights. Yes. Because you value your privacy of hobbies and speech. This is a murder case. How could someone value their hobbies and freedom above the jurisdictional process? Not a great example of having nothing to hide, but a great example of a broad search that found an entirely different crime. They do not have to fish for a crime. The crime is given, but the circumstances are probably not. I just have the feeling, that refusing to provide the data to solve cases like this will probably hurt everyone more in the long run. If the police cannot get the data this way, they will probably try another way or change the law.
johnward 10y ago
Basically "yes if you are wealthy"

gravypod 10y ago

Do you have a citation for the 3 times a day figure? I'm not disagreeing because I belive it's true. I'd just like to see some real data.

laichzeit0 10y ago
You left out the part where you also want an actual "peer reviewed study". Must be new to HN.
jerf 10y ago
Three crimes a day is probably a reference to this book: https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp... (I know it's better to provide references to web pages and not books, but I don't have a web page that recreates that book on hand. Suggestions welcome.) As I understand it, it's an estimate, not an actual figure. In order to perform such a survey, we'd have to sample people, record their entire daily activity, and determine how many crimes were committed. Determining how many crimes were committed would require an army of lawyers and private investigators... and that's the real point. As a normal citizen without an army of lawyers, you should have no confidence whatsoever that you are not committing crimes. If measured by "what could be used to convict you if the government wanted you out of the way" I'd guess 3 per day is a grotesque underestimate, at least one order of magnitude and I wouldn't bet much against 2.
- KallDrexx 10y ago
  Hell just think of everyone going 5-10mph over the speed limit on any given road.
- smileysteve 10y ago
  Thanks. !
FrancoDiaz 10y ago
I don't have a citation, but I think the CATO institute put it at 7 felonies a day.
filoeleven 10y ago
The vehicle code alone for my state is nearly three inches thick. If they want to pull you over, you will almost certainly give them a "valid" reason if they follow you for even just a few minutes. A friend of mine in law enforcement demonstrated this to me once while riding in my car. He had racked up four or five things on the car ahead of us (tailgating, crossing the fog line or center barrier, failure to signal within x yards of a turn, etc.) in under a mile.

fennecfoxen 10y ago

> This is why you call a lawyer as soon as the police arrive w/ a warrant or ask you questions. Pragmatic question regarding this type of advice. It's easy to say "call a lawyer", sure, but like many Americans under age 35, I do not presently have a lawyer in a meaningful sense of the term. (I had one once, for a very specific matter regarding a visa for another country - it was four-figure expensive - that relationship is now over.) Suppose the police show up at my door in half an hour. What do I actually do? Or, suppose that they're not showing up in half an hour but I'd like to be generally prepared. What steps can I take to do so while keeping the up-front pre-police-raid 'expensive' in the low to middle three figure sums, or thereabouts?

Anechoic 10y ago
1.) Talk to the lawyer you previously had a relationship with (assuming you think he is competent) and ask him for recommendations for a criminal lawyer. Keep the name(s) handy. 2.) In a real pinch, call your local public defender. They likely will not be able to get someone out to your place ASAP but they may be able to offer some advice. You can always follow-up with private counsel later.
smileysteve 10y ago
I imagine very few of us have a lawyer on retainer. Meet one at a party that you could call for advice in a pinch. The other alternative is LegalShield and such services.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

zubspace 10y ago

Yes, if your legal team denies it as overly broad. So this only applies to businesses and wealthy individuals? If this is the case, we already lost the fight for equal rights. Yes. Because you value your privacy of hobbies and speech. This is a murder case. How could someone value their hobbies and freedom above the jurisdictional process? Not a great example of having nothing to hide, but a great example of a broad search that found an entirely different crime. They do not have to fish for a crime. The crime is given, but the circumstances are probably not. I just have the feeling, that refusing to provide the data to solve cases like this will probably hurt everyone more in the long run. If the police cannot get the data this way, they will probably try another way or change the law.

johnward 10y ago

Basically "yes if you are wealthy"