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Because trains are dirty in the US. Go to Vienna, ride a train, and then go to San Francisco, and ride BART. Its night and day. Vienna had clean trains with a

by dexwiz 10y ago

Because trains are dirty in the US. Go to Vienna, ride a train, and then go to San Francisco, and ride BART. Its night and day. Vienna had clean trains with a smooth ride. BART seems to always be dirty, and the cars screech like banshees. Its a vicious cycle. No one wants to fund trains, so they fall into disrepair. The then get a bad rap about being in disrepair, so no one wants to fund them. If you want a real villain, blame the oil companies that bought up local trains and dismantled them in the first half of the century.

vonmoltke 10y ago
> If you want a real villain, blame the oil companies that bought up local trains and dismantled them in the first half of the century. That's quite a claim, considering air travel's hand in killing train companies. You have a citation for that?
- Frondo 10y ago
  I thought this was well-known: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    First, streetcars aren't trains. They're good at circulating people around an urban center, but not for getting them in and out. Second, even that article indicates streetcar systems were well on their way to death before the conspiracy started. Third, the participation of oil companies in it was tangential; it was auto manufacturers who drove it.
    - m_mueller 10y ago
      As someone who's lived in Zurich, here's the main advantage of streetcars vs buses: They get their own reserved space in the middle of the road. That makes them very reliable and on-time like trains (assuming good planning / operations). That's why they're still popular in places with good service, and new ones are getting built.
- sv123 10y ago
  Source: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096438/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096438/
nradov 10y ago
The new tapered wheels on BART cars are supposed to be only half as noisy. https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2016/news20160831 https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2016/news20160831
yoloswagins 10y ago
Placing the onus of the death of public transit in the US on the General Motors streetcar conspiracy fails to look at other economic aspects of the end of streetcars. * Streetcar companies were the loss leaders for real estate developers. * The Great Depression and WW2 caused deferred maintenance that undercapitalized transit companies could not afford after the real estate had been sold. * Municipalities regulated fares, with voters regularly voting down measures to increase fares. At the time, transit agencies had to generate revenue almost entirely from fares. * Transit companies had to pay recurring franchise fees for each mile of track, while bus companies didn't pay such a fee. * With the increase in auto traffic slowing down streetcars, busses had more maneuverability in heavier auto traffic.
ryandrake 10y ago
I want to fund trains. And tracks too! What I don't want to fund is the colossal bureaucracy built up like barnacles around these trains. General management administrators, assistant general manager administrators, assistants to the assistant administrators. Because whenever we're asked to pay more taxes to increase funding to mass transit, THAT's where the money is going.
- dexwiz 10y ago
  Trains and buses aren't exactly cheap, and the service contracts on top of that are even more. Subway cars (not trains) cost over $1 million each [1] [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R143_(New_York_City_Subway_car) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R143_(New_York_City_Subway_car... [2] https://www.bart.gov/about/projects/cars/delivery-plan https://www.bart.gov/about/projects/cars/delivery-plan -- Says $184 million is equal to 104 cars.
Fnoord 10y ago
> Vienna had clean trains with a smooth ride. [...] Same regarding the trains in The Netherlands and Germany. They get cleaned when they arrive at their destination and this is calculated in the downtime.

by dexwiz 10y ago

vonmoltke 10y ago

> If you want a real villain, blame the oil companies that bought up local trains and dismantled them in the first half of the century. That's quite a claim, considering air travel's hand in killing train companies. You have a citation for that?

Frondo 10y ago
I thought this was well-known: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  First, streetcars aren't trains. They're good at circulating people around an urban center, but not for getting them in and out. Second, even that article indicates streetcar systems were well on their way to death before the conspiracy started. Third, the participation of oil companies in it was tangential; it was auto manufacturers who drove it.
  - m_mueller 10y ago
    As someone who's lived in Zurich, here's the main advantage of streetcars vs buses: They get their own reserved space in the middle of the road. That makes them very reliable and on-time like trains (assuming good planning / operations). That's why they're still popular in places with good service, and new ones are getting built.
sv123 10y ago
Source: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096438/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096438/

nradov 10y ago

The new tapered wheels on BART cars are supposed to be only half as noisy. https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2016/news20160831 https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2016/news20160831

yoloswagins 10y ago

Placing the onus of the death of public transit in the US on the General Motors streetcar conspiracy fails to look at other economic aspects of the end of streetcars. * Streetcar companies were the loss leaders for real estate developers. * The Great Depression and WW2 caused deferred maintenance that undercapitalized transit companies could not afford after the real estate had been sold. * Municipalities regulated fares, with voters regularly voting down measures to increase fares. At the time, transit agencies had to generate revenue almost entirely from fares. * Transit companies had to pay recurring franchise fees for each mile of track, while bus companies didn't pay such a fee. * With the increase in auto traffic slowing down streetcars, busses had more maneuverability in heavier auto traffic.

ryandrake 10y ago

I want to fund trains. And tracks too! What I don't want to fund is the colossal bureaucracy built up like barnacles around these trains. General management administrators, assistant general manager administrators, assistants to the assistant administrators. Because whenever we're asked to pay more taxes to increase funding to mass transit, THAT's where the money is going.

dexwiz 10y ago
Trains and buses aren't exactly cheap, and the service contracts on top of that are even more. Subway cars (not trains) cost over $1 million each [1] [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R143_(New_York_City_Subway_car) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R143_(New_York_City_Subway_car... [2] https://www.bart.gov/about/projects/cars/delivery-plan https://www.bart.gov/about/projects/cars/delivery-plan -- Says $184 million is equal to 104 cars.

Fnoord 10y ago

> Vienna had clean trains with a smooth ride. [...] Same regarding the trains in The Netherlands and Germany. They get cleaned when they arrive at their destination and this is calculated in the downtime.