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But you clearly cannot eat at a deficit and gain weight. A virus cannot directly make you gain mass.

by IanCal 10y ago

whiddershins 10y ago
The energy can be used in a variety of ways. So yes, of course the same exact caloric intake can have different effects, depending on what exactly your body does with the energy.
aperrien 10y ago
No, but a virus could change your appetite, your body's allocation of energy from lean mass to fat mass, or alter your overall metabolism. Or any combination of those.
jdminhbg 10y ago
> But you clearly cannot eat at a deficit and gain weight. This is just question-begging. The proposed mechanism is that the virus alters what a deficit is.
- IanCal 10y ago
  And I think that's a very distinctly different thing from "directly causes obesity".
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    When people say "directly causes obesity", they don't mean it's a magic spell that reverses thermodynamics. Something that stops a large amount of calories from being burned and turns them into fat reserves deserves the title of "directly causes obesity".
    - srssays 10y ago
      So why aren't people in hot countries all obese?
      - parhurs 10y ago
        Why would they be? Human metabolism evolved for hot climate after all. So, the body can regulate itself. Unless it's infected by a virus, which alters this regulation. And, unlike you imply, living in a hot country does not shift your energy usage towards fat creation like the virus does.
  - jdminhbg 10y ago
    In the same way that a lit match tossed into a building doesn't "directly cause a fire" because it's actually a series of chemical reactions that cause the fire, I suppose that's correct.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> But you clearly cannot eat at a deficit and gain weight. You can't without limit, obviously, but since muscle has a much lower per-pound energy content than fat, it's quite possible to eat at a deficit and gain weight while decreasing body fat %. But, more to the point, a virus can affect, what and how much you are inclined to eat, how efficiently or not your body absorbs nutrients, and a number of other factors which influence whether or not you experience a deficit in the first place.
- ht85 10y ago
  You're mistaking weight for density. You can't create mass out of nowhere. If you transform fat into muscle, you still have the same amount of the same atoms, and thus weight the same.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > You're mistaking weight for density No, I'm not. > You can't create mass out of nowhere. Calories measure energy content, not mass. > If you transform fat into muscle, you still have the same amount of the same atoms No, you don't. > and thus weight the same. Yes, if you trade one pound of fat for one pound of muscle, weight is the same. But since fat has an energy content around 3500kcal/pound and muscle is, IIRC, around 750kcal/pound, that corresponds to more than a 2500kcal calorie deficit with no weight change.
    - ht85 10y ago
      > it's quite possible to eat at a deficit and gain weight > since fat has an energy content around 3500kcal/pound and muscle is, IIRC, around 750kcal/pound, that corresponds to more than a 2500kcal calorie deficit with no weight change Feel free to ask a friend with chemistry or physics background why this is completely wrong and goes against everything we know about matter and energy.
overgard 10y ago
Like others mentioned, your body can allocate energy in a variety of ways depending on hormones. If you're at a caloric deficit, your body can do things like: reduce heat production, reduce energy available for activities, reduce metabolism, reduce production of proteins for hair/fingernails, etc. There's no hard requirement it burns fat. That's what healthy bodies do of course, but metabolic syndrome is where that entire system doesn't work.
- ht85 10y ago
  This is not a topic I'm an expert on, I was originally just annoyed with the way the article title was worded, but those claims seem pretty wild. Do you have anything to back those up? > reduce heat production Then what? It only takes a few hundred kcals of lesser heat production to reduce an adult body a few degrees, which would cause severe hypothermia. > there's no hard requirement it burns fat To what extent? Are you saying he would die of starvation before losing significant weight?

But you clearly cannot eat at a deficit and gain weight. A virus cannot directly make you gain mass.

by IanCal 10y ago

But you clearly cannot eat at a deficit and gain weight. A virus cannot directly make you gain mass.

The energy can be used in a variety of ways. So yes, of course the same exact caloric intake can have different effects, depending on what exactly your body does with the energy.

aperrien 10y ago

No, but a virus could change your appetite, your body's allocation of energy from lean mass to fat mass, or alter your overall metabolism. Or any combination of those.

jdminhbg 10y ago

> But you clearly cannot eat at a deficit and gain weight. This is just question-begging. The proposed mechanism is that the virus alters what a deficit is.

IanCal 10y ago
And I think that's a very distinctly different thing from "directly causes obesity".
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  When people say "directly causes obesity", they don't mean it's a magic spell that reverses thermodynamics. Something that stops a large amount of calories from being burned and turns them into fat reserves deserves the title of "directly causes obesity".
  - srssays 10y ago
    So why aren't people in hot countries all obese?
    - parhurs 10y ago
      Why would they be? Human metabolism evolved for hot climate after all. So, the body can regulate itself. Unless it's infected by a virus, which alters this regulation. And, unlike you imply, living in a hot country does not shift your energy usage towards fat creation like the virus does.
- jdminhbg 10y ago
  In the same way that a lit match tossed into a building doesn't "directly cause a fire" because it's actually a series of chemical reactions that cause the fire, I suppose that's correct.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> But you clearly cannot eat at a deficit and gain weight. You can't without limit, obviously, but since muscle has a much lower per-pound energy content than fat, it's quite possible to eat at a deficit and gain weight while decreasing body fat %. But, more to the point, a virus can affect, what and how much you are inclined to eat, how efficiently or not your body absorbs nutrients, and a number of other factors which influence whether or not you experience a deficit in the first place.

ht85 10y ago
You're mistaking weight for density. You can't create mass out of nowhere. If you transform fat into muscle, you still have the same amount of the same atoms, and thus weight the same.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > You're mistaking weight for density No, I'm not. > You can't create mass out of nowhere. Calories measure energy content, not mass. > If you transform fat into muscle, you still have the same amount of the same atoms No, you don't. > and thus weight the same. Yes, if you trade one pound of fat for one pound of muscle, weight is the same. But since fat has an energy content around 3500kcal/pound and muscle is, IIRC, around 750kcal/pound, that corresponds to more than a 2500kcal calorie deficit with no weight change.
  - ht85 10y ago
    > it's quite possible to eat at a deficit and gain weight > since fat has an energy content around 3500kcal/pound and muscle is, IIRC, around 750kcal/pound, that corresponds to more than a 2500kcal calorie deficit with no weight change Feel free to ask a friend with chemistry or physics background why this is completely wrong and goes against everything we know about matter and energy.

overgard 10y ago

Like others mentioned, your body can allocate energy in a variety of ways depending on hormones. If you're at a caloric deficit, your body can do things like: reduce heat production, reduce energy available for activities, reduce metabolism, reduce production of proteins for hair/fingernails, etc. There's no hard requirement it burns fat. That's what healthy bodies do of course, but metabolic syndrome is where that entire system doesn't work.

ht85 10y ago
This is not a topic I'm an expert on, I was originally just annoyed with the way the article title was worded, but those claims seem pretty wild. Do you have anything to back those up? > reduce heat production Then what? It only takes a few hundred kcals of lesser heat production to reduce an adult body a few degrees, which would cause severe hypothermia. > there's no hard requirement it burns fat To what extent? Are you saying he would die of starvation before losing significant weight?