4 ms·

The way I heard it, the TSA was created by an accenture proposal. GWB's administration told the airline companies they needed to step up security for people ad

by ep103 10y ago

The way I heard it, the TSA was created by an accenture proposal. GWB's administration told the airline companies they needed to step up security for people admitted into airports, in response to 9/11. The airlines used the aforementioned proposal to suggest that instead of the airlines paying for individual security, the government do so for everyone, standardized, and pay for it as well. For god knows what reason, the government agreed. The end result, is the airlines have no desire to improve the process. If you get angry at the security theatre, you think to blame the government, not the airline. The government and DHS has no desire to improve the process, they just want to keep costs down, while simultaneously making sure they are publicly notable to justify their existence. Want to fix it? What if we: made the airlines pay for and run their own security. And make the DHS audit those security practices, instead of implementing them. Just one of many possible ideas.

dantheman 10y ago
If the government is setting the requirements and doing the implementation then it would seem appropriate to blame them.
knz 10y ago
> The end result, is the airlines have no desire to improve the process. That is not entirely true. Delta have spent money to improve the TSA process in Atlanta (I believe mostly by adding automation and more areas for people to unload their belongings) and have also spent money at other airports to relieve TSA congestion. I work for an airport and have heard many times that the airlines have considerable frustration with the process - it's not uncommon to hear people say that they would rather drive than fly due to the hassle of security. Airlines are usually very aware of lost revenue due to these kinds of factors. I completely agree re where the blame lays.... my understanding is that the TSA have actually asked for additional funding to have more staff on the lines but Congress has denied this. The TSA is not actually a requirement either - airports can run their own security but my understanding is that they would still require TSA oversight so any cost savings are negligible.
- gcb0 10y ago
  I will only fly my 1h fligth if I am alone. if I have others with me, I always try to convince everyone to drive 6h each way instead.
- notheguyouthink 10y ago
  > my understanding is that the TSA have actually asked for additional funding to have more staff on the lines but Congress has denied this. This wouldn't help my complaint, fwiw. My complaint isn't the lines.. i experience long lines all the time, i'm used to it. My problem is this feeling like suddenly, we're all criminals. We're cattle, on the verge of being violated, and all it will take is a sneeze or an awkward look.[1] To me, they are like "bad cops". You can meet a good cop and even if you did wrong (speeding ticket/etc), you feel comfortable and at ease (hopefully) around his/her professional attitude and behavior. The bad cops though, they just have this aura of unwarranted power, and you just hope they don't desire to spend some of it on you. That is TSA in the majority of cases to me. The line isn't the problem for me. [1]: edit, this isn't true of course, but it's how i feel.
  - ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
    The TSA is the closest I've felt like basic training since I've left the military.
- cmurf 10y ago
  All of Congress no doubt use PreCheck or Clear or equivalent to spend as little time as possible in lines. If it were a level playing field, rather than thinking it's valid to buy trust as if it's a product to sell, I'm convinced we'd see improvements however incremental.
- GrinningFool 10y ago
  > Airlines are usually very aware of lost revenue due to these kinds of factors Good to know. My own point at which airlines are worth the hassle has increased from a 6 hour one-way drive to 14 since the security "improvements" began. Which means that I'm regularly spending ~6-8 additional hours on the road simply to avoid an ~2 hours of airport security unpleasantness[1]. Driving > 6hrs generally costs more too. And it's still worth it to avoid the security process. [1] even better - once through security I can look forward to a cramped, unpleasant experience for the duration of the flight (6'2" guarantees miserable - the $20/inch of legroom option notwithstanding).
saurik 10y ago
> The end result, is the airlines have no desire to improve the process. Airlines are competing against other forms of travel (I, for example, mostly just drive everywhere I can these days, though this is only in part due to the TSA checkpoints: there's tons of stuff to hate about air travel if you can avoid it) and travel as a concept is competing against other activities (whether leisure or business: if you don't enjoy travel, you are less likely to just randomly hop on a plane and go somewhere; you take more phone calls and watch more television). Airports are also competing against other airports, and usage of TSA employees is optional: when I was still bothering to fly in and out of the Bay Area I chose SFO over SJC because I preferred the private SFO security guard over real TSA employees. The incentives might be mild (as again, there are tons of other things for them to optimize), but they definitely do exist; if nothing else, "correctly optimize the number of employees to manage long lines" seems like a big win. https://skift.com/2016/05/27/more-airports-may-ditch-the-tsa-and-use-private-security-instead/ https://skift.com/2016/05/27/more-airports-may-ditch-the-tsa... > Still, airports that have switched to private firms say they consider the contractors more responsive and better able to adjust staffing to address traffic surges and lulls. > Delta and United airlines will spend as much as $4 million each hiring extra workers to manage the lines at this busiest airports.
- alasdair_ 10y ago
  >when I was still bothering to fly in and out of the Bay Area I chose SFO over SJC because I preferred the private SFO security guard over real TSA employees. This seems crazy to me - the security line at SJC takes about four minutes to get through and you can park about a hundred feet away from the checkpoint. SFO takes FOREVER to get through.

by ep103 10y ago

dantheman 10y ago

If the government is setting the requirements and doing the implementation then it would seem appropriate to blame them.

knz 10y ago

> The end result, is the airlines have no desire to improve the process. That is not entirely true. Delta have spent money to improve the TSA process in Atlanta (I believe mostly by adding automation and more areas for people to unload their belongings) and have also spent money at other airports to relieve TSA congestion. I work for an airport and have heard many times that the airlines have considerable frustration with the process - it's not uncommon to hear people say that they would rather drive than fly due to the hassle of security. Airlines are usually very aware of lost revenue due to these kinds of factors. I completely agree re where the blame lays.... my understanding is that the TSA have actually asked for additional funding to have more staff on the lines but Congress has denied this. The TSA is not actually a requirement either - airports can run their own security but my understanding is that they would still require TSA oversight so any cost savings are negligible.

gcb0 10y ago
I will only fly my 1h fligth if I am alone. if I have others with me, I always try to convince everyone to drive 6h each way instead.
notheguyouthink 10y ago
> my understanding is that the TSA have actually asked for additional funding to have more staff on the lines but Congress has denied this. This wouldn't help my complaint, fwiw. My complaint isn't the lines.. i experience long lines all the time, i'm used to it. My problem is this feeling like suddenly, we're all criminals. We're cattle, on the verge of being violated, and all it will take is a sneeze or an awkward look.[1] To me, they are like "bad cops". You can meet a good cop and even if you did wrong (speeding ticket/etc), you feel comfortable and at ease (hopefully) around his/her professional attitude and behavior. The bad cops though, they just have this aura of unwarranted power, and you just hope they don't desire to spend some of it on you. That is TSA in the majority of cases to me. The line isn't the problem for me. [1]: edit, this isn't true of course, but it's how i feel.
- ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
  The TSA is the closest I've felt like basic training since I've left the military.
cmurf 10y ago
All of Congress no doubt use PreCheck or Clear or equivalent to spend as little time as possible in lines. If it were a level playing field, rather than thinking it's valid to buy trust as if it's a product to sell, I'm convinced we'd see improvements however incremental.
GrinningFool 10y ago
> Airlines are usually very aware of lost revenue due to these kinds of factors Good to know. My own point at which airlines are worth the hassle has increased from a 6 hour one-way drive to 14 since the security "improvements" began. Which means that I'm regularly spending ~6-8 additional hours on the road simply to avoid an ~2 hours of airport security unpleasantness[1]. Driving > 6hrs generally costs more too. And it's still worth it to avoid the security process. [1] even better - once through security I can look forward to a cramped, unpleasant experience for the duration of the flight (6'2" guarantees miserable - the $20/inch of legroom option notwithstanding).

saurik 10y ago

> The end result, is the airlines have no desire to improve the process. Airlines are competing against other forms of travel (I, for example, mostly just drive everywhere I can these days, though this is only in part due to the TSA checkpoints: there's tons of stuff to hate about air travel if you can avoid it) and travel as a concept is competing against other activities (whether leisure or business: if you don't enjoy travel, you are less likely to just randomly hop on a plane and go somewhere; you take more phone calls and watch more television). Airports are also competing against other airports, and usage of TSA employees is optional: when I was still bothering to fly in and out of the Bay Area I chose SFO over SJC because I preferred the private SFO security guard over real TSA employees. The incentives might be mild (as again, there are tons of other things for them to optimize), but they definitely do exist; if nothing else, "correctly optimize the number of employees to manage long lines" seems like a big win. https://skift.com/2016/05/27/more-airports-may-ditch-the-tsa-and-use-private-security-instead/ https://skift.com/2016/05/27/more-airports-may-ditch-the-tsa... > Still, airports that have switched to private firms say they consider the contractors more responsive and better able to adjust staffing to address traffic surges and lulls. > Delta and United airlines will spend as much as $4 million each hiring extra workers to manage the lines at this busiest airports.

alasdair_ 10y ago
>when I was still bothering to fly in and out of the Bay Area I chose SFO over SJC because I preferred the private SFO security guard over real TSA employees. This seems crazy to me - the security line at SJC takes about four minutes to get through and you can park about a hundred feet away from the checkpoint. SFO takes FOREVER to get through.