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Big boat shipping is not going to go automated anytime soon. Boat staff are a relative rounding error in costs from my estimates. There are only 39k of those b

by mahyarm 10y ago

Big boat shipping is not going to go automated anytime soon. Boat staff are a relative rounding error in costs from my estimates. There are only 39k of those boats in the world, and they are not going to be electric any time soon unless there is a revolution in battery tech that makes it economical. Port automation on the other hand, is an opportunity I'm guessing.

cm2012 10y ago
Probably 90% of port jobs are automated away compared to 50 years ago.
- AlgorithmicTime 10y ago
  Containerization alone is probably responsible for half of that.
  - patch_collector 10y ago
    If you want a good read on containerization, I'd really recommend reading 'The Box', a history of shipping containers. For a topic that might sound bland, it's fascinating. https://www.amazon.com/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Economy/dp/0691136408 https://www.amazon.com/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Econom...
- Animats 10y ago
  Yes. For an extreme example, here's Rotterdam's container port. Zero people in the quay area.[1] This is sped up, but entirely real. Not only are the vehicles driverless, so are the cranes. A few people in a control tower oversee that operation. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm_rlLyelQo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm_rlLyelQo
  - cm2012 10y ago
    Amazing
the_rosentotter 10y ago
The world's largest container ships run with a crew of about seven people.
- bkor 10y ago
  Do you have a source for that? I once asked a captain of a 14.000+ TEU vessel if they really only needed the minimum amount of crew. According to him theory and practice are vastly different. Meaning: a news article explaining that a vessel can be run with X amount of people doesn't mean there are only X amount of people on board. Secondly, there's all kinds of regulations. A container vessel is operated 24/7. If 7 is the amount of people working on it at a time, in practice the crew will be twice that. In any case, your response lacks a lot. The person you replied to talked about big boat shipping and how it is not going to be automated any time soon. You only account for the crew on a vessel. There's the customers (loads of which still like to send a fax), lots of outdated governments, outdated vendors, other companies, etc.
  - cagataygurturk 10y ago
    That's true that newer ships have more automation so crew size reduced dramatically. For example there is no man in machine rooms any more in new ships. Another thing, crew size would be 3x of needed crew for one shift because in ships there are three shifts, one shift lasts in 8 hours. (Source: I am originally Naval Architect)
  - the_rosentotter 10y ago
    You're right, 'can be run' != 'is run'. According to Wikipedia, the Emma Maersk has a crew of 13: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_M%C3%A6rsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_M%C3%A6rsk Still not a lot of fat to cut for a ship with the capacity of a medium size port.
    - bkor 10y ago
      The captains I asked was a captain for one of Maersk E-class vessels. They don't use the minimal amount. Unfortunately it's been a few years since I asked and I don't remember much of the details, just that the stated minimal crew is not what's on a vessel.
thaeli 10y ago
Also, the ship's crew are doing most maintenance underway, which keeps the asset producing value. Pretty much the only maintenance done on cargo ships at a port is stuff that requires a drydock. It's actually cheaper overall to have the maintenance crew ride the ship around the world (and also do the small number of sailing tasks that would be expensive to automate) than it is to take the ship out of service at ports to, say, repaint everything, or change the engine oil.
protomyth 10y ago
Rolls-Royce would disagree https://gcaptain.com/rolls-royce-launches-strategic-partnership-to-develop-smart-autonomous-ships/ https://gcaptain.com/rolls-royce-launches-strategic-partners...
malka 10y ago
They could be electric by generating their own power, with a nuclear reactor for instance.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  Most people would call those "nuclear". I'm sure you'd find some if you googled them.

by mahyarm 10y ago

cm2012 10y ago

Probably 90% of port jobs are automated away compared to 50 years ago.

AlgorithmicTime 10y ago
Containerization alone is probably responsible for half of that.
- patch_collector 10y ago
  If you want a good read on containerization, I'd really recommend reading 'The Box', a history of shipping containers. For a topic that might sound bland, it's fascinating. https://www.amazon.com/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Economy/dp/0691136408 https://www.amazon.com/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Econom...
Animats 10y ago
Yes. For an extreme example, here's Rotterdam's container port. Zero people in the quay area.[1] This is sped up, but entirely real. Not only are the vehicles driverless, so are the cranes. A few people in a control tower oversee that operation. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm_rlLyelQo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm_rlLyelQo
- cm2012 10y ago
  Amazing

the_rosentotter 10y ago

The world's largest container ships run with a crew of about seven people.

bkor 10y ago
Do you have a source for that? I once asked a captain of a 14.000+ TEU vessel if they really only needed the minimum amount of crew. According to him theory and practice are vastly different. Meaning: a news article explaining that a vessel can be run with X amount of people doesn't mean there are only X amount of people on board. Secondly, there's all kinds of regulations. A container vessel is operated 24/7. If 7 is the amount of people working on it at a time, in practice the crew will be twice that. In any case, your response lacks a lot. The person you replied to talked about big boat shipping and how it is not going to be automated any time soon. You only account for the crew on a vessel. There's the customers (loads of which still like to send a fax), lots of outdated governments, outdated vendors, other companies, etc.
- cagataygurturk 10y ago
  That's true that newer ships have more automation so crew size reduced dramatically. For example there is no man in machine rooms any more in new ships. Another thing, crew size would be 3x of needed crew for one shift because in ships there are three shifts, one shift lasts in 8 hours. (Source: I am originally Naval Architect)
- the_rosentotter 10y ago
  You're right, 'can be run' != 'is run'. According to Wikipedia, the Emma Maersk has a crew of 13: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_M%C3%A6rsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_M%C3%A6rsk Still not a lot of fat to cut for a ship with the capacity of a medium size port.
  - bkor 10y ago
    The captains I asked was a captain for one of Maersk E-class vessels. They don't use the minimal amount. Unfortunately it's been a few years since I asked and I don't remember much of the details, just that the stated minimal crew is not what's on a vessel.

thaeli 10y ago

Also, the ship's crew are doing most maintenance underway, which keeps the asset producing value. Pretty much the only maintenance done on cargo ships at a port is stuff that requires a drydock. It's actually cheaper overall to have the maintenance crew ride the ship around the world (and also do the small number of sailing tasks that would be expensive to automate) than it is to take the ship out of service at ports to, say, repaint everything, or change the engine oil.

protomyth 10y ago

Rolls-Royce would disagree https://gcaptain.com/rolls-royce-launches-strategic-partnership-to-develop-smart-autonomous-ships/ https://gcaptain.com/rolls-royce-launches-strategic-partners...

malka 10y ago

They could be electric by generating their own power, with a nuclear reactor for instance.

marcosdumay 10y ago
Most people would call those "nuclear". I'm sure you'd find some if you googled them.