7 ms·

In Canada 50Mbps internet now considered a basic service

100 points by dgudkov 10y ago

faebi 10y ago
Very nice. In switzerland we only have 4 mbits basic coverage but everbody has by law to get it anywhere he lives. The internet is too essential for all knowledge driven economies and therefore should be guaranteed for every citizen like water and power.
- HNSucksAss 10y ago
  Yes. Put enough stupid people online, and you too can elect a Trump. Then, like Trump, he can pack your communications-governing body with opponents of consumers and Net neutrality.
- mikebelanger 10y ago
  Easy for such a small country to say. Canada's population is much more spread out, over a much larger space.
  - robert_foss 10y ago
    This a common argument I encounter, and it is a bit of a straw man. The offerings in densely populated areas are not better.
  - jlaporte 10y ago
    Canada's population is highly urbanized and concentrated in cities near our southern border. More urbanized than Switzerland (GP comment). Not an explanation for our uncompetitive mobile and broadband data markets. Canada urban population: 81.8% of total population (2015) Switzerland urban population: 73.9% of total population (2015) -- [0] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2212.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...
- agumonkey 10y ago
  I have 4Mbits and I very rarely feel the need for more. Even for large isos. But I don't use it for TV and phone at the same time. If you're really motivated you can make a tiny proxy too, too improve DNS and HTTP response times, caching stuff and filtering ads at the network level.
RandyRanderson 10y ago
Let's not get too excited here: 1 The CRTC (our version of the US FCC) chairman said (in the linked article): "The commission's approach to affordability has always been through market forces". Market forces like competition? 2 Three companies control ~90+ % of the Canadian internet market (Rogers, Bell and Telus). 3 Canada has the highest mobile ARPU numbers in the world because of the 'market forces' here [1]. 4 It's well known in Canada that the Liberal Party (recently federally elected) is very 'cozy' (not my word) with the big 3 telcos[0]. Merry xmas, Canada's telco oligopoly. Don't spend that 750million all in one place!!! Yours always, PM Trudeau [0] http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/24/liberal-party-cozy-relationship-bell_n_9541032.html http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/24/liberal-party-cozy-r... [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/203642/forecast-for-the-global-average-revenue-per-mobile-user-in-2015-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/203642/forecast-for-the-...
- robert_foss 10y ago
  I moved to Toronto from the EU a while back and can confirm that the ISPs and mobile carriers are all awful. Horrific service, decades old technology (I'm still on 3G in Toronto), traffic quotas (low ones at that) and all options are rather expensive. I had a quick look around, and in .SE you get about 40GB of mobile traffic for 90CAD. The same amount of money will get you 10GB of traffic at Bell in Canada. The story is identical for residential broadband. It is truly an embarrassment.
  - rpeden 10y ago
    There are plenty of third party ISPs that offer plans without data caps. I've used Start.ca for a few years now and I've been very happy with the service. Mobile is indeed quite awful, though.
    - sbarre 10y ago
      The challenge a lot of people face, particularly in the downtown of cities, is that Bell, Telus and Rogers are locking up entire condo buildings with "exclusive provider" access by wiring the building at construction.. So if you move in, you have to sign up with whoever signed that deal. And it's not like you get a discount or some kind of special service, you just lose the choice. I found this out the hard way when I moved into my current place last fall. I was with Teksavvy (a relatively good 3rd party independent ISP) and when I called to schedule my move, they told me they couldn't service me in my new building, and I was forced to sign up with Rogers (who provide good service, but it's more expensive). Now I know this is a thing (and I found out it's quite common), so I'll be more careful next time, but I bet a lot of people don't know (or care), so this is yet another way that the big telcos are doing everything they can to undermine customer choice in Canada.
RandyRanderson 10y ago
Also, let's not forget how awesome the similar US National Broadband Plan [0] worked out... [0] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150728/08375931774/shocker-billions-broadband-subsidies-wasted-as-government-turns-blind-eye-to-fraud.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150728/08375931774/shock...
guessmyname 10y ago
And here I am paying $23.60 for just 10Mbps [1] ಠ_ಠ [1] http://www.une.com.co/internet http://www.une.com.co/internet
- shakna 10y ago
  How about $40/month for 12, but capped? [0] [0] https://www.exetel.com.au/broadband/nbn https://www.exetel.com.au/broadband/nbn
  - sgt 10y ago
    $55/mo for unlimited though. That's pretty acceptable.
- subliminalpanda 10y ago
  I used to pay about $90USD for 12-15mbps in Oman, horrible ping (300ms) and censored (voip blocking, 'hacking sites', pornography, political content)
- john_reel 10y ago
  $90 for 28 Mbps. However, I only get 10 Mb/s, the speed we had paid for previously. Every time I try to get back to 10 Mb/s prices AT&T attempts to repair it, sends a person for diagnostics, acknowledges there is a problem, sends someone who replaces the modem, and then claims the problem is fixed. This has happened three times.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sgt 10y ago
Somewhat unrelated, but I'm home for Christmas at my mom's house, and she has a nice and fast 50Mbps fiber connection. However, the Wi-Fi is able to sustain about 1Mbps. I don't have a specific point about this but Wi-Fi can drive you crazy.
- prodmerc 10y ago
  Heh, reminds me of a 100 Mbps fiber connection I had... with the slowest router in existence, which could only push 45 Mbps before literally dying (simply stopped responding). I wonder if the ISP used those on purpose...
martinald 10y ago
Find this funny. Where 1GB LTE data only costs $75/month. That would be about £5/8CAD in the UK. PS: population density isn't that important for cell service, before people start saying that. In fact higher population density is actually really expensive for cell coverage. A 700MHz LTE site can probably do 50km range these days.
- mgbmtl 10y ago
  With Fido in Quebec, I pay 15$/month for 3GB on a data-only plan. I run my phone (voice calls) over SIP (using VoIP.ms) for less than 5$/month. VoIP.ms also does SMS. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who uses voice calls a lot, but in my case most people text (signal/WhatsApp), even my clients. I have a desk VoIP phone for important calls (I do a lot of sales and support).
  - Solinoid 10y ago
    I was thinking of doing the same thing. What voip app do you use?
    - mgbmtl 10y ago
      csipsimple on Android
- dgudkov 10y ago
  >Where 1GB LTE data only costs $75/month. This price includes phone subsidy and talks. In Ontario Fido offers 1GB LTE for as low as $15 [1] (some limitations apply), which is not as cheap as in Europe, but not as expensive as you claim. [1] https://www.fido.ca/consumer/mobile/data https://www.fido.ca/consumer/mobile/data
  - martinald 10y ago
    Ok, fair enough, Fido does seem a lot cheaper than Rogers. But a 'normal' phone plan including minutes and SMS seems to start at $55/month for 3GB, which is eye wateringly expensive. That would be £10/month in the UK. I pay £20/month for 20GB data, unlimited sms/calls, and there's actually better deals available than that now (30GB for £18/month with unlimited roaming, sms and calls). On fido that would be $300+.
ixacto 10y ago
I'm lucky to get 1.5mbit out here in the sticks with centurylink for $45/mo, without any upgrade plans. Internet in rural America leaves something to be desired.
- leesalminen 10y ago
  I'm on CenturyLink's newer fiber offering (symmetrical 100Mbps) and am happy as a clam. Until I have to call them.
ramoq 10y ago
Mods: I submitted this article (link to the exact same article, exact same url), before dgudkov. How did this submission get accepted as being unique?
DylanFuery 10y ago
As somebody that lives quite literally half way between Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa the closest town (one I also live in) still doesn't have fiber and barely proper Cable/DSL. They have the TO-MTL Bell fiber backbone going along the Heritage Highway (the St. Lawrence River) Everything is over Cable here. 250/20 Mbps and Unlimited data is over $130 a month, but not everybody in the city can get that. Most of the city is still on old Bell copper which is just DSL speeds. 6/.5 Mbps "maybe" and if you want to use your phone at the same time the line being so old and congested you will probably get dropped. The second house I live at is 15 KM north of this city. I have no Bell (copper of any kind), no Cable... Just Hydro. Meaning my next bet is to installed a 80'-100' tower and do Wireless Internet (2.4 GHz and 5.6 GHz technology). 6/.85 with a soft cap of 200 GB at $66 a month or 10/1 with a soft cap of 200 GB for $100 (this is only for certain Sectors which are suitable, luckily I am one of them). This is on top of paying monthly for the equipment rental or buying it out right. The towers alone can cost $1,000+ (it was $250 just to have it anchored with guide wires). Let's not even get started on Ping Speeds I'm thankfully between 30 ms to 150 ms on average. But I've hit over 1500 ms on days, and Rain Effect (especially being in Canada where it snows A LOT) makes connections almost impossible. Though I would love the CRTC to do something of this, I'm sure I don't qualify as "Remote" or "Rural" enough. It's a scam really (3ish major providers with 1% or so it seems of actual coverage) and if you work from home you are literally out of luck. Especially when within a 25 KM radius there are only TWO cell phone towers. The one that is closest that provides the best signal and speeds is slightly off on its pointed degree and angle so I can't pick it up so I receive the farthest cell tower away which gives me about 1 bar of 3G, I'm often on 2G (which will be shut off soon) and rarely LTE. Then if I do use my cellular data that's $52 per ONE GB over your plan. Its a pointless battle. I understand most of the population lives within a few hours of the border, and "remote and rural" are priorities but even people 20 minutes away from big cities have it rougher than most think. Something needs to be done.
beezischillin 10y ago
I live in Romania, where 100/100 is the cheapest and worst service you can get for $6.45, while the most expensive option is 1000/300 at $9, without any data caps. It always strikes me as really weird and potentially bad that providers not only don't invest in infrastructure, but actively try and limit the use of their current one in every western country. I'd love to see a study on how much profit the economy's losing out on thanks to this.

100 points by dgudkov 10y ago

faebi 10y ago

Very nice. In switzerland we only have 4 mbits basic coverage but everbody has by law to get it anywhere he lives. The internet is too essential for all knowledge driven economies and therefore should be guaranteed for every citizen like water and power.

HNSucksAss 10y ago
Yes. Put enough stupid people online, and you too can elect a Trump. Then, like Trump, he can pack your communications-governing body with opponents of consumers and Net neutrality.
mikebelanger 10y ago
Easy for such a small country to say. Canada's population is much more spread out, over a much larger space.
- robert_foss 10y ago
  This a common argument I encounter, and it is a bit of a straw man. The offerings in densely populated areas are not better.
- jlaporte 10y ago
  Canada's population is highly urbanized and concentrated in cities near our southern border. More urbanized than Switzerland (GP comment). Not an explanation for our uncompetitive mobile and broadband data markets. Canada urban population: 81.8% of total population (2015) Switzerland urban population: 73.9% of total population (2015) -- [0] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2212.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...
agumonkey 10y ago
I have 4Mbits and I very rarely feel the need for more. Even for large isos. But I don't use it for TV and phone at the same time. If you're really motivated you can make a tiny proxy too, too improve DNS and HTTP response times, caching stuff and filtering ads at the network level.

RandyRanderson 10y ago

Let's not get too excited here: 1 The CRTC (our version of the US FCC) chairman said (in the linked article): "The commission's approach to affordability has always been through market forces". Market forces like competition? 2 Three companies control ~90+ % of the Canadian internet market (Rogers, Bell and Telus). 3 Canada has the highest mobile ARPU numbers in the world because of the 'market forces' here [1]. 4 It's well known in Canada that the Liberal Party (recently federally elected) is very 'cozy' (not my word) with the big 3 telcos[0]. Merry xmas, Canada's telco oligopoly. Don't spend that 750million all in one place!!! Yours always, PM Trudeau [0] http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/24/liberal-party-cozy-relationship-bell_n_9541032.html http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/24/liberal-party-cozy-r... [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/203642/forecast-for-the-global-average-revenue-per-mobile-user-in-2015-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/203642/forecast-for-the-...

robert_foss 10y ago
I moved to Toronto from the EU a while back and can confirm that the ISPs and mobile carriers are all awful. Horrific service, decades old technology (I'm still on 3G in Toronto), traffic quotas (low ones at that) and all options are rather expensive. I had a quick look around, and in .SE you get about 40GB of mobile traffic for 90CAD. The same amount of money will get you 10GB of traffic at Bell in Canada. The story is identical for residential broadband. It is truly an embarrassment.
- rpeden 10y ago
  There are plenty of third party ISPs that offer plans without data caps. I've used Start.ca for a few years now and I've been very happy with the service. Mobile is indeed quite awful, though.
  - sbarre 10y ago
    The challenge a lot of people face, particularly in the downtown of cities, is that Bell, Telus and Rogers are locking up entire condo buildings with "exclusive provider" access by wiring the building at construction.. So if you move in, you have to sign up with whoever signed that deal. And it's not like you get a discount or some kind of special service, you just lose the choice. I found this out the hard way when I moved into my current place last fall. I was with Teksavvy (a relatively good 3rd party independent ISP) and when I called to schedule my move, they told me they couldn't service me in my new building, and I was forced to sign up with Rogers (who provide good service, but it's more expensive). Now I know this is a thing (and I found out it's quite common), so I'll be more careful next time, but I bet a lot of people don't know (or care), so this is yet another way that the big telcos are doing everything they can to undermine customer choice in Canada.

RandyRanderson 10y ago

Also, let's not forget how awesome the similar US National Broadband Plan [0] worked out... [0] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150728/08375931774/shocker-billions-broadband-subsidies-wasted-as-government-turns-blind-eye-to-fraud.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150728/08375931774/shock...

guessmyname 10y ago

And here I am paying $23.60 for just 10Mbps [1] ಠ_ಠ [1] http://www.une.com.co/internet http://www.une.com.co/internet

shakna 10y ago
How about $40/month for 12, but capped? [0] [0] https://www.exetel.com.au/broadband/nbn https://www.exetel.com.au/broadband/nbn
- sgt 10y ago
  $55/mo for unlimited though. That's pretty acceptable.
subliminalpanda 10y ago
I used to pay about $90USD for 12-15mbps in Oman, horrible ping (300ms) and censored (voip blocking, 'hacking sites', pornography, political content)
john_reel 10y ago
$90 for 28 Mbps. However, I only get 10 Mb/s, the speed we had paid for previously. Every time I try to get back to 10 Mb/s prices AT&T attempts to repair it, sends a person for diagnostics, acknowledges there is a problem, sends someone who replaces the modem, and then claims the problem is fixed. This has happened three times.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

sgt 10y ago

Somewhat unrelated, but I'm home for Christmas at my mom's house, and she has a nice and fast 50Mbps fiber connection. However, the Wi-Fi is able to sustain about 1Mbps. I don't have a specific point about this but Wi-Fi can drive you crazy.

prodmerc 10y ago
Heh, reminds me of a 100 Mbps fiber connection I had... with the slowest router in existence, which could only push 45 Mbps before literally dying (simply stopped responding). I wonder if the ISP used those on purpose...

martinald 10y ago

Find this funny. Where 1GB LTE data only costs $75/month. That would be about £5/8CAD in the UK. PS: population density isn't that important for cell service, before people start saying that. In fact higher population density is actually really expensive for cell coverage. A 700MHz LTE site can probably do 50km range these days.

mgbmtl 10y ago
With Fido in Quebec, I pay 15$/month for 3GB on a data-only plan. I run my phone (voice calls) over SIP (using VoIP.ms) for less than 5$/month. VoIP.ms also does SMS. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who uses voice calls a lot, but in my case most people text (signal/WhatsApp), even my clients. I have a desk VoIP phone for important calls (I do a lot of sales and support).
- Solinoid 10y ago
  I was thinking of doing the same thing. What voip app do you use?
  - mgbmtl 10y ago
    csipsimple on Android
dgudkov 10y ago
>Where 1GB LTE data only costs $75/month. This price includes phone subsidy and talks. In Ontario Fido offers 1GB LTE for as low as $15 [1] (some limitations apply), which is not as cheap as in Europe, but not as expensive as you claim. [1] https://www.fido.ca/consumer/mobile/data https://www.fido.ca/consumer/mobile/data
- martinald 10y ago
  Ok, fair enough, Fido does seem a lot cheaper than Rogers. But a 'normal' phone plan including minutes and SMS seems to start at $55/month for 3GB, which is eye wateringly expensive. That would be £10/month in the UK. I pay £20/month for 20GB data, unlimited sms/calls, and there's actually better deals available than that now (30GB for £18/month with unlimited roaming, sms and calls). On fido that would be $300+.

ixacto 10y ago

I'm lucky to get 1.5mbit out here in the sticks with centurylink for $45/mo, without any upgrade plans. Internet in rural America leaves something to be desired.

leesalminen 10y ago
I'm on CenturyLink's newer fiber offering (symmetrical 100Mbps) and am happy as a clam. Until I have to call them.

ramoq 10y ago

Mods: I submitted this article (link to the exact same article, exact same url), before dgudkov. How did this submission get accepted as being unique?

DylanFuery 10y ago

As somebody that lives quite literally half way between Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa the closest town (one I also live in) still doesn't have fiber and barely proper Cable/DSL. They have the TO-MTL Bell fiber backbone going along the Heritage Highway (the St. Lawrence River) Everything is over Cable here. 250/20 Mbps and Unlimited data is over $130 a month, but not everybody in the city can get that. Most of the city is still on old Bell copper which is just DSL speeds. 6/.5 Mbps "maybe" and if you want to use your phone at the same time the line being so old and congested you will probably get dropped. The second house I live at is 15 KM north of this city. I have no Bell (copper of any kind), no Cable... Just Hydro. Meaning my next bet is to installed a 80'-100' tower and do Wireless Internet (2.4 GHz and 5.6 GHz technology). 6/.85 with a soft cap of 200 GB at $66 a month or 10/1 with a soft cap of 200 GB for $100 (this is only for certain Sectors which are suitable, luckily I am one of them). This is on top of paying monthly for the equipment rental or buying it out right. The towers alone can cost $1,000+ (it was $250 just to have it anchored with guide wires). Let's not even get started on Ping Speeds I'm thankfully between 30 ms to 150 ms on average. But I've hit over 1500 ms on days, and Rain Effect (especially being in Canada where it snows A LOT) makes connections almost impossible. Though I would love the CRTC to do something of this, I'm sure I don't qualify as "Remote" or "Rural" enough. It's a scam really (3ish major providers with 1% or so it seems of actual coverage) and if you work from home you are literally out of luck. Especially when within a 25 KM radius there are only TWO cell phone towers. The one that is closest that provides the best signal and speeds is slightly off on its pointed degree and angle so I can't pick it up so I receive the farthest cell tower away which gives me about 1 bar of 3G, I'm often on 2G (which will be shut off soon) and rarely LTE. Then if I do use my cellular data that's $52 per ONE GB over your plan. Its a pointless battle. I understand most of the population lives within a few hours of the border, and "remote and rural" are priorities but even people 20 minutes away from big cities have it rougher than most think. Something needs to be done.

beezischillin 10y ago

I live in Romania, where 100/100 is the cheapest and worst service you can get for $6.45, while the most expensive option is 1000/300 at $9, without any data caps. It always strikes me as really weird and potentially bad that providers not only don't invest in infrastructure, but actively try and limit the use of their current one in every western country. I'd love to see a study on how much profit the economy's losing out on thanks to this.