10 ms·

I'm probably decently smart, but I'm not rich at all. In fact I'm quite poor by most people's standards. I'm also really happy and work fewer hours per week th

I'm probably decently smart, but I'm not rich at all. In fact I'm quite poor by most people's standards. I'm also really happy and work fewer hours per week than anyone I know. If there's one thing I worry about it's that I should be trying to be rich because I probably have the means to make that happen. I might be making 200k/yr if I worked full time. I might be able to start a successful company if I put my mind to it. I've never been able to convince myself that it's worth it. Money just doesn't seem that useful to me. I don't need a car, I'd actually prefer a smaller studio for less money if I could find one. My bills add up to maybe $1400/month. It's trivial to make that much money. I have a fulfilling part time job which I could sleep through and still cover my expenses. Every dollar I earn writing software is a bonus. It constantly surprises me how much money my peers are capable of spending. Fixing things is also really fun. I have $300 dollar headphones, they cost me $0 because I pulled them out of the trash and spent a couple hours overhauling them. The biggest material source of joy in my life is a $280 bicycle, my laptop cost the same, both off craigslist. Going out for a night on the town can cost hundreds of dollars, if I want to indulge in a vice I can buy enough weed to last me 3 months for the same amount of money. I'm always free to spend time with friends doing cool things. The skills I have that I use to earn money are all learned from spending free time messing around doing small projects just for the hell of it. I wouldn't have these skills if I didn't have so much free time to explore whatever strikes my fancy. It really seems like the point at which working harder to earn money hits diminishing returns comes much much earlier that most people think.

pier25 10y ago
I'm guessing you are single and not planning to have kids, right?
- errantspark 10y ago
  I'm not single, but you're right about the kids. In my world view having a kid is similar to an 18 year prison sentence.
  - icelancer 10y ago
    I wanted kids. I believe your statement is still correct. In my case I subjected myself to prison because of biology ruling over my logical processing unit. Humanity goes on as a result of that, I am quite sure of it. :)
    - errantspark 10y ago
      I get that, but my friends are starting to have kids and I'm rather looking forward to being their crazy uncle and teaching them how to solder and take things apart etc. I love kids, I just don't want to be the one primarily responsible for them
      - icelancer 10y ago
        I cannot fault you. Most days I wonder why I decided to have kids. I realize that I didn't decide it in any sort of logical manner that implies normal decision-making. If I went purely on logic and rational thought, I certainly wouldn't have done it. Alas, that wasn't in the cards. I wouldn't take it back, but I tell everyone who is on the fence about having kids to very strongly reconsider if they want to go through with it. On its face, it's an incredibly dumb choice. But biology wins out, sometimes..
        johnchristopher 10y ago
        It depends how big the field you have to plow is. Having many kids helps in keeping and maintaining the field then using it to grow food (for you and your free plowering kids). Some kind of bootstrap if you will.
      - csomar 10y ago
        I don't really know about your situation and if you are actually doing it now. But based on experience, people who get married usually dismiss friendship with singles and instead look for friendships with people who have families/kids.
- kem 10y ago
  eh, I have kids and don't make that much money, but I think the point is still valid. My colleague and I were talking about this paper the other day because it led to huge questions about all the assumptions underlying our definitions of "success." For example, my wife and I's household income was fairly big before we had kids, but not really anything noteworthy. It allowed us to save up enough so that her staying home with them isn't too much of a financial strain. I do worry about the long-term consequences in terms of savings, but I also know that to her, staying home with them at this age means a lot to her, and her going to work to be away from them was miserable when she was doing that. I think she feels lucky. I could have gone into something more lucrative, and probably could be pulling in more money now, but it would mean less flexibility for me, and more stress, etc. I'd also have about as much independence now at my job as someone could have (for better or worse). Are we not successful? I'm not always sure, because I've thought a lot of changing careers, but one reason I haven't is because I'm not sure it would be worth it on balance. It might be, but it might not be. To abstract it a bit, think about Donald Trump: is he successful? A lot of people would say yes, but is he a model of who we want to be, or our children to be? Sure, some people would say yes, but more would probably say no. So should income be a marker of success? One problem with these studies (and I think they're valuable, so I don't mean to suggest otherwise) is that what constitutes success is so variable, and is so detached from income, that I'm not sure how to interpret them. I mean, sure, all other things being equal, I'd rather have more than less money, but all other things are definitely not equal in life. There's pros and cons to everything. Income is a very weak metric of what an ideal life goal is.
  - pdimitar 10y ago
    I respect your calm-mannered response. IMO part of my reason not to want kids is the fact that I am doing awfully with money even though I am a programmer in demand (which means I do a lot of things wrong on this platform, which is a fact I became painfully aware of in the last one year)... and thus, any extra expense would literally kill me in the long-term. I barely manage well right now. That said, I don't think I'll be happy watching my kids wanting a toy, or new boots, or simply a scarf and a hat for the winter, or a cheap gaming console, and me being unable to buy them those. Where's the happiness in seeing your children being miserable? That's the thing that pushes normal peaceful people to attempt robberies! So your case is anecdotal. Works pretty well for you but I know that for me and many others it won't. So my case is anecdotal as well. All in all, I do my best not to let hormones or misplaced "duty" principles decide for me, and use my rational thought for my decisions.
icelancer 10y ago
I own my own business and the company is worth some millions of dollars, so I am "rich" though by American standards, not really. My salary is rather low for being the founder. My partner has an equally low salary. Some employees make more than me. I was formerly a data scientist with a salary 2x of what my current one is. I was miserable. Today, I love work. I create things. I have two kids and a wife and she stays home with them and does actual tough work. I wear clothes from companies we partner with (sports science, so lots of universities give us free stuff) and company-logoed clothes only. I don't have expensive hobbies. My wife gets all of my money and I invest things at home like Blue Apron, a house cleaner, day care, etc, to make family life better. Having a job I love and a company that fulfills my vision negated all need for tangible things in my life. When I was actually "rich" in regards to salary, liquid money, I was consumed by stuff. It was terrible. Life's good now. I want for nothing expensive. I make this comment to tell you that you may be able to have both if your work is something that you truly enjoy.
- CYHSM 10y ago
  I am rather curious what type of company you created. You mentioned sports science? Something in the direction of moneyball?
  - smnplk 10y ago
    Email him :) mike dot anon at hotmail
- ChicagoBoy11 10y ago
  "I wear clothes from companies we partner with (sports science..." I'm intrigued... would you mind sharing a bit more about your business?
blackoil 10y ago
How do you spend most of your free time?
- errantspark 10y ago
  I'd say about a 50/50 split between useless things like: hanging out with friends playing video games, riding my bike in traffic in a semi irresponsible manner, smoking weed, climbing trees; and useful things like reverse engineering/modifying things, exploring programming languages, painting/drawing, doing 3D graphics/art, working on various side projects and building things that come to mind. Some examples of side recent projects if you're interested: a virtual reality strange attractor explorer, a high resolution bike speedometer/light system and a tool to record and subsequently play images from cassette tapes.
  - 3131s 10y ago
    > hanging out with friends playing video games, riding my bike in traffic in a semi irresponsible manner, smoking weed, climbing trees; and useful things like reverse engineering/modifying things, exploring programming languages, painting/drawing, doing 3D graphics/art, working on various side projects and building things that come to mind. Eerily similar to me, except that I have spent less than 400$ a month for the past 4 years due to where I live. I've traded most every comfort (hot water, air conditioning, possessions in general), which I could not care less about, for the ability to practically never work. I have a laptop, speakers, a table, a chair, a mattress on the floor, two fans, art supplies, sports equipment, and that's about it. I will live like this forever and my only motivation to become very rich is to help other people.
visarga 10y ago
You are like a guru of minimalism and self reliance. Bravo! I feel the same - we don't need so much money because, after fulfilling our basic needs, we have many other sources of fulfillment.
jacalata 10y ago
Diminishing returns for your personal enjoyment, sure. But there are plenty of ways any extra money you had could be spent to make a huge impact for other people: https://80000hours.org/career-guide/high-impact-jobs/#approach-1-earning-to-give https://80000hours.org/career-guide/high-impact-jobs/#approa...
- kakarot 10y ago
  I wish more people saw it this way. Philanthropy is the only thing driving me to amass wealth. I used to be ok with being poor and spending a lot of free time on side projects but more and more I'm becoming disgusted with myself and those around me for living selfishly when so many people around the world are in pain.
  - bjelkeman-again 10y ago
    I found that there are actually relatively few people with the type of experience most of us here at HN have that work in philanthropy. I mean people with IT background, can-do attitude, consider scaling whatever you build to million or billions of people, entrepreneurial and able to pitch well for investments. If I work as a reasonably successful IT entrepreneur (I don't think I am going to be Gates, Brinn or Zuckerberg). At most I will be able to give away few million to charity/philanthropy. That is going to have a relatively limited impact. International development funding is $130 billion / year. Taking my skills and helping spending those $130 billion sensibly, by applying my skills is having a considerably bigger impact, I think. My team is routinely involved in country level data-to-decision work around things like drinking water supply, sanitation access, food security, agriculture efficiency, climate change adaptation, disaster respons etc. If I add up the population of the countries where we our tools are used for rural drinking water mapping and prioritisation of investments, we end up with about half a billion people. For me, the best way to use my time I think is helping others by applying my skills to the problem at hand. Working for a faceless shareholder (mine and your pension fund and a bunch of rich people) on something that may be technically interesting, but didn't make a big positive impact on the world and the people in it, just wasn't enough for me anymore. What I do now is more satisfying and has a much bigger positive impact, I think.
nl 10y ago
I'd hardly say that I'm successful, and I know everyone I work with is smarter than me. But I've been poor (poorer than you appear to be), and I'd be pretty happy to never, ever go back. Money is a lubricant for so many things.
amelius 10y ago
For intelligent people, it can be nice to go to congresses a lot. Or buy computer gear, like a big GPU rig, just to play with (or develop a business from). Just some examples why money can still be nice.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
greggman 10y ago
My impression is money gets more important as you get older because your ability to get other people to give it to you for work goes way down and your medical expenses go way up. At least that's what I've seen in my family
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- _coldfire 10y ago
  For nearly all countries in the developed world the medical expenses part is barely an issue.
heyalexej 10y ago
The thing is, that you're incredibly successful. You live life the way you want it and have the freedom to decide what you want to spend your time on. This, for me, is success.
Pigo 10y ago
I derive a lot of satisfaction from fixing things myself. I watch YouTube clips that show me how to do anything to my Jeep. I recently bought an old farm house that's a constant list of new projects to work on, and a yard to landscape. I feel like Hank Hill sometimes, and my co-workers act like it's not worth their time to do those kind of things (they just buy new cars whenever something little happens to them). But I've been pleasantly surprised by how much fun it is to save money and learn new skills. It's a great feeling when you have the right tool for an important job.
- pdimitar 10y ago
  I am gradually travelling from your colleagues' state of mind to yours lately. In my case though, it's not about "not worth my time". It's just that I am always tired and thus somewhat cranky, unhealthy and have a lot of things to care for -- debts, teeth fixes (and several other health issues), proper TV stand and bedroom floor fixators, get proper kitchenware (like, I have a pan that USED to be teflon for example), you name it -- loads of thigns to care for because they simply aren't where I want them to be. And I am talking things I find basic, not luxuries. While I am in this drama, I really do find it hard to just screw everything and go fix an old PC or a bike lying around. I started finding inner peace in tinkering with things but it's an uphill battle against my stress and messed-up life -- and it's gonna take a while for me to fully get there. No real topic in my comment. Just wanted to offer you another point of view.
forgetsusername 10y ago
>It really seems like the point at which working harder to earn money hits diminishing returns comes much much earlier that most people think. How old are you? Do you have children? Sick or elderly family to take care of? I get a kick out of young people in the software industry talking about how easy it is. Of course it is when you're by yourself with very particular interests. But life circumstances can and do change.
adrianN 10y ago
What do you plan to do when you're old? Right now it might be simple to earn enough money to pay your bills, but if you don't earn enough to save a significant portion of it you risk not having enough once earning money becomes harder.
- rayiner 10y ago
  Unless he decides to make a one-way hike into the tundra when he can no longer work, the kids other people "selfishly" decided to have will support him (even if indirectly, e.g. by working at the companies that he has equity in as retirement investments).
SpaceDingus9000 10y ago
What do you do for work?
mcguire 10y ago
I suggest you reconsider this. Not necessarily change your answer, but... Earlier in my career, I chose jobs based on interest, challenge, excitement, and fun. As a result, I had a low salary history. When I turned 45, I found myself in a position where, in absolute terms, I was making significantly less than the average for my experience and education in my area; relatively, I was making much less than coworkers who were significantly less competent (I make no claims as to my absolute competence) and receiving much less respect. To the extent that I was called in when the sky was falling but was ignored when pointing out that and obviously poor decision would result in the sky falling. Fortunately, I had a habit of packing money into a brokerage account and a modest inheritance, so I am now happily unemployed and don't have to deal with the horseshit. I just have to figure out what to do when I'm 75 and broke.
- pdimitar 10y ago
  I am 36 and I feel I've been overly passive throughout my career. I only "activate" in emergency mode and during the last 15 months (a stable job) I started reflecting and understanding that I only ever tried hard only NOT to sink, and not a centimeter beyond that. Your experience is something I fear will share in just several years if I don't get off my ass and invest in my future. To be fair, I had a plethora of pretty valid reasons which I'll not list here. I grew to realize they gradually devolved in mere excuses however in my mind. They were valid for 5-6 years (between 19 and 25, let's say, and even that's a lot of time). Beyond those I just kind of loved the slack they were giving me. TL;DR: I am stressed, tired and realizing that if I don't start getting much more things done, I'll face a VERY GRIM future.
ap22213 10y ago
I love this. To me, this is real 'smarts'.
jwatte 10y ago
So, no family to care for? What level of savings security do you have? What happens to you if you get cancer, or break a leg? What will sustain you in retirement? If you live outside the US in some country where human basic needs are guaranteed, your approach would make more sense to me!
N3cr0ph4g1st 10y ago
Could you explain what part of being a data scientist made you hate it?

pier25 10y ago

I'm guessing you are single and not planning to have kids, right?

errantspark 10y ago
I'm not single, but you're right about the kids. In my world view having a kid is similar to an 18 year prison sentence.
- icelancer 10y ago
  I wanted kids. I believe your statement is still correct. In my case I subjected myself to prison because of biology ruling over my logical processing unit. Humanity goes on as a result of that, I am quite sure of it. :)
  - errantspark 10y ago
    I get that, but my friends are starting to have kids and I'm rather looking forward to being their crazy uncle and teaching them how to solder and take things apart etc. I love kids, I just don't want to be the one primarily responsible for them
    - icelancer 10y ago
      I cannot fault you. Most days I wonder why I decided to have kids. I realize that I didn't decide it in any sort of logical manner that implies normal decision-making. If I went purely on logic and rational thought, I certainly wouldn't have done it. Alas, that wasn't in the cards. I wouldn't take it back, but I tell everyone who is on the fence about having kids to very strongly reconsider if they want to go through with it. On its face, it's an incredibly dumb choice. But biology wins out, sometimes..
      - johnchristopher 10y ago
        It depends how big the field you have to plow is. Having many kids helps in keeping and maintaining the field then using it to grow food (for you and your free plowering kids). Some kind of bootstrap if you will.
    - csomar 10y ago
      I don't really know about your situation and if you are actually doing it now. But based on experience, people who get married usually dismiss friendship with singles and instead look for friendships with people who have families/kids.
kem 10y ago
eh, I have kids and don't make that much money, but I think the point is still valid. My colleague and I were talking about this paper the other day because it led to huge questions about all the assumptions underlying our definitions of "success." For example, my wife and I's household income was fairly big before we had kids, but not really anything noteworthy. It allowed us to save up enough so that her staying home with them isn't too much of a financial strain. I do worry about the long-term consequences in terms of savings, but I also know that to her, staying home with them at this age means a lot to her, and her going to work to be away from them was miserable when she was doing that. I think she feels lucky. I could have gone into something more lucrative, and probably could be pulling in more money now, but it would mean less flexibility for me, and more stress, etc. I'd also have about as much independence now at my job as someone could have (for better or worse). Are we not successful? I'm not always sure, because I've thought a lot of changing careers, but one reason I haven't is because I'm not sure it would be worth it on balance. It might be, but it might not be. To abstract it a bit, think about Donald Trump: is he successful? A lot of people would say yes, but is he a model of who we want to be, or our children to be? Sure, some people would say yes, but more would probably say no. So should income be a marker of success? One problem with these studies (and I think they're valuable, so I don't mean to suggest otherwise) is that what constitutes success is so variable, and is so detached from income, that I'm not sure how to interpret them. I mean, sure, all other things being equal, I'd rather have more than less money, but all other things are definitely not equal in life. There's pros and cons to everything. Income is a very weak metric of what an ideal life goal is.
- pdimitar 10y ago
  I respect your calm-mannered response. IMO part of my reason not to want kids is the fact that I am doing awfully with money even though I am a programmer in demand (which means I do a lot of things wrong on this platform, which is a fact I became painfully aware of in the last one year)... and thus, any extra expense would literally kill me in the long-term. I barely manage well right now. That said, I don't think I'll be happy watching my kids wanting a toy, or new boots, or simply a scarf and a hat for the winter, or a cheap gaming console, and me being unable to buy them those. Where's the happiness in seeing your children being miserable? That's the thing that pushes normal peaceful people to attempt robberies! So your case is anecdotal. Works pretty well for you but I know that for me and many others it won't. So my case is anecdotal as well. All in all, I do my best not to let hormones or misplaced "duty" principles decide for me, and use my rational thought for my decisions.

icelancer 10y ago

I own my own business and the company is worth some millions of dollars, so I am "rich" though by American standards, not really. My salary is rather low for being the founder. My partner has an equally low salary. Some employees make more than me. I was formerly a data scientist with a salary 2x of what my current one is. I was miserable. Today, I love work. I create things. I have two kids and a wife and she stays home with them and does actual tough work. I wear clothes from companies we partner with (sports science, so lots of universities give us free stuff) and company-logoed clothes only. I don't have expensive hobbies. My wife gets all of my money and I invest things at home like Blue Apron, a house cleaner, day care, etc, to make family life better. Having a job I love and a company that fulfills my vision negated all need for tangible things in my life. When I was actually "rich" in regards to salary, liquid money, I was consumed by stuff. It was terrible. Life's good now. I want for nothing expensive. I make this comment to tell you that you may be able to have both if your work is something that you truly enjoy.

CYHSM 10y ago
I am rather curious what type of company you created. You mentioned sports science? Something in the direction of moneyball?
- smnplk 10y ago
  Email him :) mike dot anon at hotmail
ChicagoBoy11 10y ago
"I wear clothes from companies we partner with (sports science..." I'm intrigued... would you mind sharing a bit more about your business?

blackoil 10y ago

How do you spend most of your free time?

errantspark 10y ago
I'd say about a 50/50 split between useless things like: hanging out with friends playing video games, riding my bike in traffic in a semi irresponsible manner, smoking weed, climbing trees; and useful things like reverse engineering/modifying things, exploring programming languages, painting/drawing, doing 3D graphics/art, working on various side projects and building things that come to mind. Some examples of side recent projects if you're interested: a virtual reality strange attractor explorer, a high resolution bike speedometer/light system and a tool to record and subsequently play images from cassette tapes.
- 3131s 10y ago
  > hanging out with friends playing video games, riding my bike in traffic in a semi irresponsible manner, smoking weed, climbing trees; and useful things like reverse engineering/modifying things, exploring programming languages, painting/drawing, doing 3D graphics/art, working on various side projects and building things that come to mind. Eerily similar to me, except that I have spent less than 400$ a month for the past 4 years due to where I live. I've traded most every comfort (hot water, air conditioning, possessions in general), which I could not care less about, for the ability to practically never work. I have a laptop, speakers, a table, a chair, a mattress on the floor, two fans, art supplies, sports equipment, and that's about it. I will live like this forever and my only motivation to become very rich is to help other people.

visarga 10y ago

You are like a guru of minimalism and self reliance. Bravo! I feel the same - we don't need so much money because, after fulfilling our basic needs, we have many other sources of fulfillment.

jacalata 10y ago

Diminishing returns for your personal enjoyment, sure. But there are plenty of ways any extra money you had could be spent to make a huge impact for other people: https://80000hours.org/career-guide/high-impact-jobs/#approach-1-earning-to-give https://80000hours.org/career-guide/high-impact-jobs/#approa...

kakarot 10y ago
I wish more people saw it this way. Philanthropy is the only thing driving me to amass wealth. I used to be ok with being poor and spending a lot of free time on side projects but more and more I'm becoming disgusted with myself and those around me for living selfishly when so many people around the world are in pain.
- bjelkeman-again 10y ago
  I found that there are actually relatively few people with the type of experience most of us here at HN have that work in philanthropy. I mean people with IT background, can-do attitude, consider scaling whatever you build to million or billions of people, entrepreneurial and able to pitch well for investments. If I work as a reasonably successful IT entrepreneur (I don't think I am going to be Gates, Brinn or Zuckerberg). At most I will be able to give away few million to charity/philanthropy. That is going to have a relatively limited impact. International development funding is $130 billion / year. Taking my skills and helping spending those $130 billion sensibly, by applying my skills is having a considerably bigger impact, I think. My team is routinely involved in country level data-to-decision work around things like drinking water supply, sanitation access, food security, agriculture efficiency, climate change adaptation, disaster respons etc. If I add up the population of the countries where we our tools are used for rural drinking water mapping and prioritisation of investments, we end up with about half a billion people. For me, the best way to use my time I think is helping others by applying my skills to the problem at hand. Working for a faceless shareholder (mine and your pension fund and a bunch of rich people) on something that may be technically interesting, but didn't make a big positive impact on the world and the people in it, just wasn't enough for me anymore. What I do now is more satisfying and has a much bigger positive impact, I think.

nl 10y ago

I'd hardly say that I'm successful, and I know everyone I work with is smarter than me. But I've been poor (poorer than you appear to be), and I'd be pretty happy to never, ever go back. Money is a lubricant for so many things.

amelius 10y ago

For intelligent people, it can be nice to go to congresses a lot. Or buy computer gear, like a big GPU rig, just to play with (or develop a business from). Just some examples why money can still be nice.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

greggman 10y ago

My impression is money gets more important as you get older because your ability to get other people to give it to you for work goes way down and your medical expenses go way up. At least that's what I've seen in my family

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
_coldfire 10y ago
For nearly all countries in the developed world the medical expenses part is barely an issue.

heyalexej 10y ago

The thing is, that you're incredibly successful. You live life the way you want it and have the freedom to decide what you want to spend your time on. This, for me, is success.

Pigo 10y ago

I derive a lot of satisfaction from fixing things myself. I watch YouTube clips that show me how to do anything to my Jeep. I recently bought an old farm house that's a constant list of new projects to work on, and a yard to landscape. I feel like Hank Hill sometimes, and my co-workers act like it's not worth their time to do those kind of things (they just buy new cars whenever something little happens to them). But I've been pleasantly surprised by how much fun it is to save money and learn new skills. It's a great feeling when you have the right tool for an important job.

pdimitar 10y ago
I am gradually travelling from your colleagues' state of mind to yours lately. In my case though, it's not about "not worth my time". It's just that I am always tired and thus somewhat cranky, unhealthy and have a lot of things to care for -- debts, teeth fixes (and several other health issues), proper TV stand and bedroom floor fixators, get proper kitchenware (like, I have a pan that USED to be teflon for example), you name it -- loads of thigns to care for because they simply aren't where I want them to be. And I am talking things I find basic, not luxuries. While I am in this drama, I really do find it hard to just screw everything and go fix an old PC or a bike lying around. I started finding inner peace in tinkering with things but it's an uphill battle against my stress and messed-up life -- and it's gonna take a while for me to fully get there. No real topic in my comment. Just wanted to offer you another point of view.

forgetsusername 10y ago

>It really seems like the point at which working harder to earn money hits diminishing returns comes much much earlier that most people think. How old are you? Do you have children? Sick or elderly family to take care of? I get a kick out of young people in the software industry talking about how easy it is. Of course it is when you're by yourself with very particular interests. But life circumstances can and do change.

adrianN 10y ago

What do you plan to do when you're old? Right now it might be simple to earn enough money to pay your bills, but if you don't earn enough to save a significant portion of it you risk not having enough once earning money becomes harder.

rayiner 10y ago
Unless he decides to make a one-way hike into the tundra when he can no longer work, the kids other people "selfishly" decided to have will support him (even if indirectly, e.g. by working at the companies that he has equity in as retirement investments).

SpaceDingus9000 10y ago

What do you do for work?

mcguire 10y ago

I suggest you reconsider this. Not necessarily change your answer, but... Earlier in my career, I chose jobs based on interest, challenge, excitement, and fun. As a result, I had a low salary history. When I turned 45, I found myself in a position where, in absolute terms, I was making significantly less than the average for my experience and education in my area; relatively, I was making much less than coworkers who were significantly less competent (I make no claims as to my absolute competence) and receiving much less respect. To the extent that I was called in when the sky was falling but was ignored when pointing out that and obviously poor decision would result in the sky falling. Fortunately, I had a habit of packing money into a brokerage account and a modest inheritance, so I am now happily unemployed and don't have to deal with the horseshit. I just have to figure out what to do when I'm 75 and broke.

pdimitar 10y ago
I am 36 and I feel I've been overly passive throughout my career. I only "activate" in emergency mode and during the last 15 months (a stable job) I started reflecting and understanding that I only ever tried hard only NOT to sink, and not a centimeter beyond that. Your experience is something I fear will share in just several years if I don't get off my ass and invest in my future. To be fair, I had a plethora of pretty valid reasons which I'll not list here. I grew to realize they gradually devolved in mere excuses however in my mind. They were valid for 5-6 years (between 19 and 25, let's say, and even that's a lot of time). Beyond those I just kind of loved the slack they were giving me. TL;DR: I am stressed, tired and realizing that if I don't start getting much more things done, I'll face a VERY GRIM future.

ap22213 10y ago

I love this. To me, this is real 'smarts'.

jwatte 10y ago

So, no family to care for? What level of savings security do you have? What happens to you if you get cancer, or break a leg? What will sustain you in retirement? If you live outside the US in some country where human basic needs are guaranteed, your approach would make more sense to me!

N3cr0ph4g1st 10y ago

Could you explain what part of being a data scientist made you hate it?