6 ms·

I've had conversations with recruiters where I've initially sounded interested, then changed my mind because it just sounds like too much hassle. They simply c

by adwww 10y ago

I've had conversations with recruiters where I've initially sounded interested, then changed my mind because it just sounds like too much hassle. They simply can't understand that I would give up when I realised there were three interviews, or that I needed to spend a day doing a test. Sure if I did well in one interview the other two would likely be fine too, but equally... I could just go to another company that says "OK" after a conversation in a bar and save myself a lot of friction.

Clubber 10y ago
I'm the same way. A full day interview is just silly, multiple day interviews, no way. Look at my resume, meet me, decide, make an offer. If it doesn't work out, fire me, but don't play this silly game of multiple interviews with multiple people that don't really talk to each other or coordinate. It makes the company look like they don't know what they are doing and/or are indecisive. You can keep that.
- d3mchi 10y ago
  I feel that a multi-day interview or a longer process helps weed out those who aren't interested in your company, just interested in a job, but I can agree some companies overdo it. As for meeting with multiple people who don't talk/coordinate, that sounds more like something that takes place in a larger company, whereas this article was about new startups, where I imagine communication would be stronger.
  - avitzurel 10y ago
    It weeds out everybody who isn't desperate for a job and taking those multiple days interviews with anyone that offers them.
  - Clubber 10y ago
    >who aren't interested in your company, just interested in a job Every founder thinks their company is great. People who want jobs will happily reinforce that delusion to get the job. Some companies are better than others, but most of it is really boring stuff. I guarantee that everyone working at your company is there because they need a job.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    multi-day is TOO long. There is no exception to this rule. It's not even about being attractive to juniors, seniors or mid level. It's just looking for desperate, even if you have a brand name.
- avitzurel 10y ago
  That's how I moved jobs in my last 3 positions. Find me, meet me (coffee, lunch), meet the team for some ideas/brainstorming. Make me an offer I can't refuse. Screw the rest, seriously, it's just not worth the trouble. A couple of weeks back I saw a repo on Github. Preparing for an interview @ Google. It was a mile long. Never doing that.
- jiaweihli 10y ago
  I strongly disagree with this. I've been on the other side of the fence, trying to hire people for an early-mid startup (5-40 people) as an early employee. There are more people than you'd expect who can talk the talk but can't code at the same level. In the majority of companies, I'd bet there aren't too many openings for engineers in such a narrow role. If you don't want to work with an 'idea person', would you want to work with an 'idea engineer'? Multi-day interviews are likely overkill, but a full day interview is completely fair. There's no need to do 4 back-to-back algorithm whiteboarding sessions, but testing other aspects such as data modelling, general architecture, and coding style/ability are all high-signal.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    Look at it from the candidate's point of view. Depending on what company I'm working for, I get 10, maybe 15 crappy days of paid time off that I have to split between vacation, sickness, and YOUR interview. If you take an entire day of my time, I can only do that max 10-15 times in the year, and that's if I don't get sick and have no vacation. I'm going to highly favor a company that does not make me blow one of those days entirely. Multiple days? Not a chance.
    - Clubber 10y ago
      I agree. If it's between two companies that pay "competitive rates," and one company wants me to interview for an hour and one company wants me to interview for a day, I'm not going to waste a day. If you were paying 2x rates or real equity, ya I'd slog through a day long interview, but I bet you aren't. What does your company have to offer that would compel me to spend 8 hours interviewing that another company doesn't?
      - user5994461 10y ago
        You need to charge more if you get two competitors for you. Maybe they'll be only one company willing to pay then, maybe that will be the one with the one day interview :D
    - 10y ago
felixgallo 10y ago
On the downside, then you're working at a company that hires its staff by bar conversations, rather than by attempting to determine competency and mutual fit.
- avitzurel 10y ago
  I'd go work for that company over a multiple days interview any day. If you talk about the right things, it beats any interview (IMHO of course).
- twic 10y ago
  A rigorous interview process is a huge plus for me. Not because I'm a masochist, but because I want to work with people who are at least as good as me. A company that hires after a conversation in a bar is likely to have a much wider range of abilities.
  - 0xCAFEFARE 10y ago
    Just because an interview is rigorous doesn't mean you will be working with competent people. It can often mean the exact opposite.
    - twic 10y ago
      How so?
ryandrake 10y ago
Exactly. Here's an example: I once had a chat over coffee with a hiring manager for a smallish company that seemed interested in me. We talked about my background and accomplishments, went over a few example problems to see how I'd work through them, discussed a little about the company and the project. Everything was going great, and he seemed pretty pleased. At the end was a handshake and "You seem great for the job. I'll put you in touch with HR!" So, what are you thinking? I know what I was thinking! So HR gets in touch and says "We would like to bring you in for the first set of interviews next week some time, when would work?" I said, "Uhh, there must be a mistake, I already talked with the hiring manager, I thought you were calling to discuss salary, benefits, start date, etc." HR: "Hmm, no, that's not right. Did you even fill out our application online yet?" Conversation was pretty much over from my standpoint at that point. What a crappy experience and a waste of time!
- withdavidli 10y ago
  Someone needs to train that hiring manager. They gave you no heads up about the process. There might even be a chance the hiring manager didn't know you would have to interview afterwards if the company was small enough. Did you contact the manager afterwards? If the company doesn't have a defined process the manager might have been able to talk to HR to directly give you the offer.
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  Had a similar-ish experience once -- meeting the hiring manager for coffee, knowing this would be a prelude to a standard onsite interview (which I was fine with). And it was a very productive discussion. We talked about a lot of some pretty high-level stuff, both technology-wise and business-wise -- possible failure modes in their fraud detection process; customer acquisition strategies moving forward, etc.. Not in a fuzzy, "whatever" way -- but in a serious, analytical way. You know, high-level, adult stuff. The weird part? When I got the schedule for the interview (btw several more hours in length than the "couple of hours" we had initially talked about -- but we'll let that slide for now), the first thing they wanted be to do was come in at 9 AM for a session on "logic problems" -- you know: pirates, gold coins, poisoned wine bottles -- for a whole hour. To which I wanted to say, "Wait -- didn't we just have a conversation in that cafe demonstrating exactly the level of critical thinking skills you're looking for (arguably at a much more nuanced level, in fact), and applied actual, real problems -- not silly, made-up puzzle problems?" But of course I felt too shy to just come out and say that. So made up some excuse about "accepting another offer", instead.
user5994461 10y ago
I'm wary of companies that say yes after a quick conversation in a bar (That is, unless I've got friends there I've made companies with before and I come highly recommended). Maybe that makes sense for < 10 people companies who are just starting out and can't get any better.

by adwww 10y ago

Clubber 10y ago

I'm the same way. A full day interview is just silly, multiple day interviews, no way. Look at my resume, meet me, decide, make an offer. If it doesn't work out, fire me, but don't play this silly game of multiple interviews with multiple people that don't really talk to each other or coordinate. It makes the company look like they don't know what they are doing and/or are indecisive. You can keep that.

d3mchi 10y ago
I feel that a multi-day interview or a longer process helps weed out those who aren't interested in your company, just interested in a job, but I can agree some companies overdo it. As for meeting with multiple people who don't talk/coordinate, that sounds more like something that takes place in a larger company, whereas this article was about new startups, where I imagine communication would be stronger.
- avitzurel 10y ago
  It weeds out everybody who isn't desperate for a job and taking those multiple days interviews with anyone that offers them.
- Clubber 10y ago
  >who aren't interested in your company, just interested in a job Every founder thinks their company is great. People who want jobs will happily reinforce that delusion to get the job. Some companies are better than others, but most of it is really boring stuff. I guarantee that everyone working at your company is there because they need a job.
- user5994461 10y ago
  multi-day is TOO long. There is no exception to this rule. It's not even about being attractive to juniors, seniors or mid level. It's just looking for desperate, even if you have a brand name.
avitzurel 10y ago
That's how I moved jobs in my last 3 positions. Find me, meet me (coffee, lunch), meet the team for some ideas/brainstorming. Make me an offer I can't refuse. Screw the rest, seriously, it's just not worth the trouble. A couple of weeks back I saw a repo on Github. Preparing for an interview @ Google. It was a mile long. Never doing that.
jiaweihli 10y ago
I strongly disagree with this. I've been on the other side of the fence, trying to hire people for an early-mid startup (5-40 people) as an early employee. There are more people than you'd expect who can talk the talk but can't code at the same level. In the majority of companies, I'd bet there aren't too many openings for engineers in such a narrow role. If you don't want to work with an 'idea person', would you want to work with an 'idea engineer'? Multi-day interviews are likely overkill, but a full day interview is completely fair. There's no need to do 4 back-to-back algorithm whiteboarding sessions, but testing other aspects such as data modelling, general architecture, and coding style/ability are all high-signal.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Look at it from the candidate's point of view. Depending on what company I'm working for, I get 10, maybe 15 crappy days of paid time off that I have to split between vacation, sickness, and YOUR interview. If you take an entire day of my time, I can only do that max 10-15 times in the year, and that's if I don't get sick and have no vacation. I'm going to highly favor a company that does not make me blow one of those days entirely. Multiple days? Not a chance.
  - Clubber 10y ago
    I agree. If it's between two companies that pay "competitive rates," and one company wants me to interview for an hour and one company wants me to interview for a day, I'm not going to waste a day. If you were paying 2x rates or real equity, ya I'd slog through a day long interview, but I bet you aren't. What does your company have to offer that would compel me to spend 8 hours interviewing that another company doesn't?
    - user5994461 10y ago
      You need to charge more if you get two competitors for you. Maybe they'll be only one company willing to pay then, maybe that will be the one with the one day interview :D
  - 10y ago

felixgallo 10y ago

On the downside, then you're working at a company that hires its staff by bar conversations, rather than by attempting to determine competency and mutual fit.

avitzurel 10y ago
I'd go work for that company over a multiple days interview any day. If you talk about the right things, it beats any interview (IMHO of course).
twic 10y ago
A rigorous interview process is a huge plus for me. Not because I'm a masochist, but because I want to work with people who are at least as good as me. A company that hires after a conversation in a bar is likely to have a much wider range of abilities.
- 0xCAFEFARE 10y ago
  Just because an interview is rigorous doesn't mean you will be working with competent people. It can often mean the exact opposite.
  - twic 10y ago
    How so?

ryandrake 10y ago

Exactly. Here's an example: I once had a chat over coffee with a hiring manager for a smallish company that seemed interested in me. We talked about my background and accomplishments, went over a few example problems to see how I'd work through them, discussed a little about the company and the project. Everything was going great, and he seemed pretty pleased. At the end was a handshake and "You seem great for the job. I'll put you in touch with HR!" So, what are you thinking? I know what I was thinking! So HR gets in touch and says "We would like to bring you in for the first set of interviews next week some time, when would work?" I said, "Uhh, there must be a mistake, I already talked with the hiring manager, I thought you were calling to discuss salary, benefits, start date, etc." HR: "Hmm, no, that's not right. Did you even fill out our application online yet?" Conversation was pretty much over from my standpoint at that point. What a crappy experience and a waste of time!

withdavidli 10y ago
Someone needs to train that hiring manager. They gave you no heads up about the process. There might even be a chance the hiring manager didn't know you would have to interview afterwards if the company was small enough. Did you contact the manager afterwards? If the company doesn't have a defined process the manager might have been able to talk to HR to directly give you the offer.
kafkaesq 10y ago
Had a similar-ish experience once -- meeting the hiring manager for coffee, knowing this would be a prelude to a standard onsite interview (which I was fine with). And it was a very productive discussion. We talked about a lot of some pretty high-level stuff, both technology-wise and business-wise -- possible failure modes in their fraud detection process; customer acquisition strategies moving forward, etc.. Not in a fuzzy, "whatever" way -- but in a serious, analytical way. You know, high-level, adult stuff. The weird part? When I got the schedule for the interview (btw several more hours in length than the "couple of hours" we had initially talked about -- but we'll let that slide for now), the first thing they wanted be to do was come in at 9 AM for a session on "logic problems" -- you know: pirates, gold coins, poisoned wine bottles -- for a whole hour. To which I wanted to say, "Wait -- didn't we just have a conversation in that cafe demonstrating exactly the level of critical thinking skills you're looking for (arguably at a much more nuanced level, in fact), and applied actual, real problems -- not silly, made-up puzzle problems?" But of course I felt too shy to just come out and say that. So made up some excuse about "accepting another offer", instead.

user5994461 10y ago

I'm wary of companies that say yes after a quick conversation in a bar (That is, unless I've got friends there I've made companies with before and I come highly recommended). Maybe that makes sense for < 10 people companies who are just starting out and can't get any better.