5 ms·

Whatever. In the meantime, let's bring the manufacturing chain back here so we can build up the automation expertise ourselves, and, while we wait for the End

Whatever. In the meantime, let's bring the manufacturing chain back here so we can build up the automation expertise ourselves, and, while we wait for the End of Work, stop making the middle of our IQ bell curve compete with countries that don't give a shit about their environment, the concept of intellectual property or the safety of their workers. We can figure the automation problem out later.

inimino 10y ago
Automation saves money, bringing jobs back doesn't, that's why the jobs went away in the first place.
- carsongross 10y ago
  Who, whom.
  - inimino 10y ago
    I can't tell what point you're trying to make, here.
Ironchefpython 10y ago
> In the meantime, let's bring the manufacturing chain back here so we can build up the automation expertise ourselves How? There's obvious long term financial value in having local supply chains and manufacturing expertise. Therefore state capitalist systems will subsidize local manufacturing in the short term, while anarcho-capitalist systems will flock to set up shop there to capture convert those short-term subsidies into short-term profit. Do you have a solution that will work to build high-tech manufacturing infrastructure in the United States with no corporate incentives and no US government intervention? (I mean besides tweeting brags about job creation)
- adventured 10y ago
  Sure, dramatically lower the corporate income tax rate and substantially reduce the massive over-regulation in the US economy. Check out the various regulation registries at the Federal level, the US is choking to death on thousands of unnecessary regulations (growing rapidly for decades) that are almost always written solely for the benefit of protectionism or for fake the-government-is-doing-something purposes (which happens at all levels). The US corporate income tax rate has been a bad joke for a long time. Countries like Sweden at 22%, understood decades ago that it was bad economic policy to have a high rate. You tax the income of the wealthy as the offset. The US for example already has an extremely progressive personal income tax rate. For several decades the corporate income tax rate has been falling around the world; the world's average rate has fallen from near 30% to 22% in the last 12 years. The US isn't competitive, you see that in how we've been bleeding pharma & biotech companies off to Ireland. Over time, you start seeing R&D & operations offshoring because of that. Give it time and you've artificially created a lot more global competition through bad policy. If you're a small to mid size manufacturer in the US, paying a 30% effective income tax rate is brutal if you want to compete globally while everyone else is paying far lower rates. Germany for example lowered their top rate by about 9 points a decade ago. Finland and Iceland have a 20% rate. Korea is at 24% and China at 25%. The European average is about 20%.
  - smallnamespace 10y ago
    The US effective tax rate for corporations is pretty much comparable to other developed countries' effective rates [1], because the US has more deductions, write-offs, and tax holidays. If you're talking about cutting the statutory rate while also eliminating deductions and simplifying the code, I'm all for that (ditto for personal income taxes). A huge complicated tax code benefits big corporations more than your small business owner, because tax lawyers and accountants are largely a fixed cost. But let's not keep repeating the misguided fact that US corporations pay unusually high taxes -- they simply don't. [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2015/03/25/the-truth-about-corporate-tax-rates/#f29735920a54 http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2015/03/25/the-truth...
    - usrusr 10y ago
slashedzero 10y ago
Two things: firstly, the article was about the long term problem of automation, so not sure the meantime is a factor here. Secondly, who is to say that even without waiting there will be enough jobs returned to make any dent in the joblessness of that "middle of our IQ bell curve".
sangnoir 10y ago
> stop making the middle of our IQ bell curve compete with countries that don't give a shit about their environment FYI: The US produces way more CO2 per capita than China - about double, IIRC. edit: source -http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?locations=CN-US http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?locations...

inimino 10y ago

Automation saves money, bringing jobs back doesn't, that's why the jobs went away in the first place.

carsongross 10y ago
Who, whom.
- inimino 10y ago
  I can't tell what point you're trying to make, here.

Ironchefpython 10y ago

> In the meantime, let's bring the manufacturing chain back here so we can build up the automation expertise ourselves How? There's obvious long term financial value in having local supply chains and manufacturing expertise. Therefore state capitalist systems will subsidize local manufacturing in the short term, while anarcho-capitalist systems will flock to set up shop there to capture convert those short-term subsidies into short-term profit. Do you have a solution that will work to build high-tech manufacturing infrastructure in the United States with no corporate incentives and no US government intervention? (I mean besides tweeting brags about job creation)

adventured 10y ago
Sure, dramatically lower the corporate income tax rate and substantially reduce the massive over-regulation in the US economy. Check out the various regulation registries at the Federal level, the US is choking to death on thousands of unnecessary regulations (growing rapidly for decades) that are almost always written solely for the benefit of protectionism or for fake the-government-is-doing-something purposes (which happens at all levels). The US corporate income tax rate has been a bad joke for a long time. Countries like Sweden at 22%, understood decades ago that it was bad economic policy to have a high rate. You tax the income of the wealthy as the offset. The US for example already has an extremely progressive personal income tax rate. For several decades the corporate income tax rate has been falling around the world; the world's average rate has fallen from near 30% to 22% in the last 12 years. The US isn't competitive, you see that in how we've been bleeding pharma & biotech companies off to Ireland. Over time, you start seeing R&D & operations offshoring because of that. Give it time and you've artificially created a lot more global competition through bad policy. If you're a small to mid size manufacturer in the US, paying a 30% effective income tax rate is brutal if you want to compete globally while everyone else is paying far lower rates. Germany for example lowered their top rate by about 9 points a decade ago. Finland and Iceland have a 20% rate. Korea is at 24% and China at 25%. The European average is about 20%.
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  The US effective tax rate for corporations is pretty much comparable to other developed countries' effective rates [1], because the US has more deductions, write-offs, and tax holidays. If you're talking about cutting the statutory rate while also eliminating deductions and simplifying the code, I'm all for that (ditto for personal income taxes). A huge complicated tax code benefits big corporations more than your small business owner, because tax lawyers and accountants are largely a fixed cost. But let's not keep repeating the misguided fact that US corporations pay unusually high taxes -- they simply don't. [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2015/03/25/the-truth-about-corporate-tax-rates/#f29735920a54 http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2015/03/25/the-truth...
  - usrusr 10y ago

slashedzero 10y ago

Two things: firstly, the article was about the long term problem of automation, so not sure the meantime is a factor here. Secondly, who is to say that even without waiting there will be enough jobs returned to make any dent in the joblessness of that "middle of our IQ bell curve".

sangnoir 10y ago

> stop making the middle of our IQ bell curve compete with countries that don't give a shit about their environment FYI: The US produces way more CO2 per capita than China - about double, IIRC. edit: source -http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?locations=CN-US http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?locations...