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Stradivarius was ahead of his time, but all of his violins have been updated and modified since they were built, such as adding Bass Bars [1]. Since then, his

Stradivarius was ahead of his time, but all of his violins have been updated and modified since they were built, such as adding Bass Bars [1]. Since then, his results have been duplicated and/or improved. The name Stradivarius still carries an amazing amount of weight. Researchers have shown musicians can't actually differentiate between newly built violins and Stradivarius: "The duo asked professional violinists to play new violins, and old ones by Stradivari and Guarneri. They couldn’t tell the difference between the two groups. One of the new violins even emerged as the most commonly preferred instrument." [ 2 ] Therefore when TFA from NYT makes this vague, unsubstantiated claim "For hundreds of years, the best violin players have almost unanimously said they prefer a Stradivari or a Guarneri instrument," take it with a grain of salt or preferably evidence that mainstream media benefits by perpetuating mysterious illusions for the emotional allure. [ 1 ] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_bar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_bar [ 2 ] http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/01/02/violinists-cant-tell-the-difference-between-stradivarius-violins-and-new-ones/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/01/0...

leephillips 10y ago
But isn't it true that "the best violin players have almost unanimously said they prefer a Stradivari or a Guarneri"? It seems that's what they say, even if they may not actually be able to tell the difference.
thieving_magpie 10y ago
I think you're misinterpreting the statement "For hundreds of years, the best violin players have almost unanimously said they prefer a Stradivari or a Guarneri instrument". While maybe they don't unanimously state it, that does seem to be the prevailing opinion over "hundreds of years". Just because there are violins that match a Stradivarius doesn't change that. Please audiophiles don't kill me but it seems loosely similar to the debate over lossless FLAC files and a record. Though I will note that unlike the audio debate you're saying there's no perceptible difference between the two.
- 21 10y ago
  Audiophiles have moved beyond that stage. Today they are debating the difference between FLAC files and WAV files, and "audiophile-grade" audio players fully decode the FLAC file in memory before playing it, into a single continuous memory region (obviously, continuous in user-space, in kernel space it can still be "fragmented", but this is too subtle for current day)
  - copperx 10y ago
    I hope you are joking.
    - AimHere 10y ago
      I suspect he isn't. Have yourself a giggle at these guys discussing the finer points of FLAC vs Wav sound quality (to be fair, some of them do make sensible points about the ability to tag files and whathaveyou, but still...) http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/flac-vs-wav-audio-quality http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/flac-vs-wav-audio-quality
      - nitrogen 10y ago
        The only possible way there's a difference is if the CPU used to decode a FLAC file changes the noise emitted by the computer or puts noise on the DAC's power supply that affects its clock stability or raises the noise floor.
onion2k 10y ago
I can't even imagine the amount of fear I'd feel if someone asked me to make some modifications to an antique violin worth millions of dollars. It'd be like deploying an update on a Friday afternoon.
- analog31 10y ago
  The fear would be palpable, but on most of those instruments, the modifications were done in the 19th century, as the modern violin was developed. They changed the size and shape of the bass bar, and the geometry of the neck. Also, the materials and construction techniques all lend themselves to repairability. Just holding one of those instruments would make me nervous, but in terms of both maintenance and use, they were made to be played. This is just something that people accept. I obviously don't play a Strad (he didn't make double basses, that's my excuse), but when I got a nice new bass, people asked me if I'd ever take it out of the house, or if I'd use my old bass for performances. I tell people the same thing, it was made to be played.
- dyim 10y ago
  It'd be like deploying an update before leaving for your honeymoon!
- manarth 10y ago
  Now imagine leaving it on a train: http://www.thelocal.de/20160108/violinist-forgets-24-million-stradivarius-on-train http://www.thelocal.de/20160108/violinist-forgets-24-million...
- dahart 10y ago
  At least a deploy you can fix or roll back. Break a Strad or Guarneri, and you're done.
  - mikestew 10y ago
    Mmm, not necessarily. Someone took a fireplace poker to Bill Monroe's mandolin. Someone managed to put it back together: http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?55 http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?55 (The last picture shows the damage, first one shows its restored state.)
WildUtah 10y ago
NYT makes this vague, unsubstantiated claim "For hundreds of years, the best violin players have almost unanimously said they prefer a Stradivari or a Guarneri instrument," take it with a grain of salt or preferably evidence that mainstream media benefits by perpetuating mysterious illusions for the emotional allure. This story is the epitome of fake news. This is the kind of content it is so hard to filter when anybody on the web can make a serious looking website and publish pure fiction as if it were news. AI is nowhere near being able to classify these stories. Lots of election stories were similarly challenging. Even humans have to be pretty smart to pick them out sometimes.
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  >This story is the epitome of fake news Is "fake news" going to be the new meme here? If you think this epitomizes "fake news", your detector needs recalibration.
elihu 10y ago
According to the link you provided, the bass bars were replaced with bigger bass bars to handle the tension of modern strings. So, it wasn't as if they didn't have bass bars to begin with (which is sort of implied by your wording). For what it's worth, replacing the bass bar or braces periodically could be considered part of the expected maintenance of some arch-top instruments. When or how often it's needed is debatable, but instrument tops will sag over time due to pressure.
bsder 10y ago
> Stradivarius was ahead of his time Is this really true? I was under the impression that the primary issue with the wood was that it came from a stand of trees that had been through an unusual number of drought years and made the wood unusually dense. So, while the craftsmanship was excellent, it was a happy accident in the material that made it world-renowned. This is similar to how Damascus Steel was an accident of having vanadium in the raw inputs. And was not to be replicated once that raw material went away. And, you can say what you will about Strads, but wood has a peak in stringed instruments that seems to be about 30-50 years in. After that, it's slow degradation. Strads are long past their peak.

leephillips 10y ago

But isn't it true that "the best violin players have almost unanimously said they prefer a Stradivari or a Guarneri"? It seems that's what they say, even if they may not actually be able to tell the difference.

thieving_magpie 10y ago

I think you're misinterpreting the statement "For hundreds of years, the best violin players have almost unanimously said they prefer a Stradivari or a Guarneri instrument". While maybe they don't unanimously state it, that does seem to be the prevailing opinion over "hundreds of years". Just because there are violins that match a Stradivarius doesn't change that. Please audiophiles don't kill me but it seems loosely similar to the debate over lossless FLAC files and a record. Though I will note that unlike the audio debate you're saying there's no perceptible difference between the two.

21 10y ago
Audiophiles have moved beyond that stage. Today they are debating the difference between FLAC files and WAV files, and "audiophile-grade" audio players fully decode the FLAC file in memory before playing it, into a single continuous memory region (obviously, continuous in user-space, in kernel space it can still be "fragmented", but this is too subtle for current day)
- copperx 10y ago
  I hope you are joking.
  - AimHere 10y ago
    I suspect he isn't. Have yourself a giggle at these guys discussing the finer points of FLAC vs Wav sound quality (to be fair, some of them do make sensible points about the ability to tag files and whathaveyou, but still...) http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/flac-vs-wav-audio-quality http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/flac-vs-wav-audio-quality
    - nitrogen 10y ago
      The only possible way there's a difference is if the CPU used to decode a FLAC file changes the noise emitted by the computer or puts noise on the DAC's power supply that affects its clock stability or raises the noise floor.

onion2k 10y ago

I can't even imagine the amount of fear I'd feel if someone asked me to make some modifications to an antique violin worth millions of dollars. It'd be like deploying an update on a Friday afternoon.

analog31 10y ago
The fear would be palpable, but on most of those instruments, the modifications were done in the 19th century, as the modern violin was developed. They changed the size and shape of the bass bar, and the geometry of the neck. Also, the materials and construction techniques all lend themselves to repairability. Just holding one of those instruments would make me nervous, but in terms of both maintenance and use, they were made to be played. This is just something that people accept. I obviously don't play a Strad (he didn't make double basses, that's my excuse), but when I got a nice new bass, people asked me if I'd ever take it out of the house, or if I'd use my old bass for performances. I tell people the same thing, it was made to be played.
dyim 10y ago
It'd be like deploying an update before leaving for your honeymoon!
manarth 10y ago
Now imagine leaving it on a train: http://www.thelocal.de/20160108/violinist-forgets-24-million-stradivarius-on-train http://www.thelocal.de/20160108/violinist-forgets-24-million...
dahart 10y ago
At least a deploy you can fix or roll back. Break a Strad or Guarneri, and you're done.
- mikestew 10y ago
  Mmm, not necessarily. Someone took a fireplace poker to Bill Monroe's mandolin. Someone managed to put it back together: http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?55 http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?55 (The last picture shows the damage, first one shows its restored state.)

WildUtah 10y ago

NYT makes this vague, unsubstantiated claim "For hundreds of years, the best violin players have almost unanimously said they prefer a Stradivari or a Guarneri instrument," take it with a grain of salt or preferably evidence that mainstream media benefits by perpetuating mysterious illusions for the emotional allure. This story is the epitome of fake news. This is the kind of content it is so hard to filter when anybody on the web can make a serious looking website and publish pure fiction as if it were news. AI is nowhere near being able to classify these stories. Lots of election stories were similarly challenging. Even humans have to be pretty smart to pick them out sometimes.

forgetsusername 10y ago
>This story is the epitome of fake news Is "fake news" going to be the new meme here? If you think this epitomizes "fake news", your detector needs recalibration.

elihu 10y ago

According to the link you provided, the bass bars were replaced with bigger bass bars to handle the tension of modern strings. So, it wasn't as if they didn't have bass bars to begin with (which is sort of implied by your wording). For what it's worth, replacing the bass bar or braces periodically could be considered part of the expected maintenance of some arch-top instruments. When or how often it's needed is debatable, but instrument tops will sag over time due to pressure.

bsder 10y ago

> Stradivarius was ahead of his time Is this really true? I was under the impression that the primary issue with the wood was that it came from a stand of trees that had been through an unusual number of drought years and made the wood unusually dense. So, while the craftsmanship was excellent, it was a happy accident in the material that made it world-renowned. This is similar to how Damascus Steel was an accident of having vanadium in the raw inputs. And was not to be replicated once that raw material went away. And, you can say what you will about Strads, but wood has a peak in stringed instruments that seems to be about 30-50 years in. After that, it's slow degradation. Strads are long past their peak.