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Engineers love to talk about legal issues as though they were lawyers. It turns out that with very few exceptions engineers are not lawyers. Now, saying things

Engineers love to talk about legal issues as though they were lawyers. It turns out that with very few exceptions engineers are not lawyers. Now, saying things that aren't true in a discoverable medium is basically never a good idea; but drawing legal conclusions in one without having any real idea if you're right is the kind of bad idea that can cost your company a bunch of money. I'm sure the policy is aimed at cutting that kind of problem, rather than stopping legitimate whistleblowing etc (which is protected anyway).

jay_kyburz 10y ago
Yes but everyday people are expected to know the law and obey it. You don't need to be a lawyer to know that assaulting somebody or driving dangerously is against the law. If you know your company is "assaulting somebody" or something obviously illegal, I think you have a duty to let superiors know so that something can be done to fix it. People are both employees and citizens and sometimes must choose between the company and thier own society at large.
- cjmcqueen 10y ago
  Yes, you do have duty, but not in email. Full disclosure, I'm a Googler. And, thankfully every verbal complaint or concern I've made has been addressed and resolved.
  - IshKebab 10y ago
    > but not in an email Sure, that benefits Google. But some people care more about ethics and don't want Google to get away with potentially illegal actions.
    - skybrian 10y ago
      It benefits you as well, unless testifying in court about some careless thing you said in email is your idea of fun.
      - lostboys67 10y ago
        you can still get subpoenaed and get ripped to shreds by a $5k an hour lawyer
  - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
    Also, it's worth noting that no Google employee could say any view except this one in this thread without getting fired. (Likely even if the alleged terms weren't so egregious.) While you may be one of 65,000 who feels listened to, we can't know how many have been silenced.
  - englishlanguage 10y ago
    It's not about you. When there is a claim of, say, systematic rape at a place, it is both understandable and really offputting for random people to say "I work there and didn't get raped." If anything, it comes across as kind of tone-deaf and toyish.
  - lostboys67 10y ago
    Well making complainants (grievances) verbally is not best HR practice they want everything documented nornmally
- debatem1 10y ago
  There are not two possibilities here, but four: 1/ Your company could act legally and you think it is acting legally. 2/ Your company could act illegally and you think it is acting legally. 3/ Your company could act legally and you think it is acting illegally. 4/ Your company could act illegally and you think it is acting illegally. Case 1 is fine and case 2 will spur no action from you, so we can discount those. Case four is protected under whistleblower laws, and you should get your own lawyer and only talk to them in no discoverable media anyway. Case three is where corporate policy applies and where you should probably not speculate in email because, well, you're wrong. If you're on the fence between three and four, talk to a lawyer anyways and get off the fence. Find a firm legal footing and then pursue the issue.

jay_kyburz 10y ago

Yes but everyday people are expected to know the law and obey it. You don't need to be a lawyer to know that assaulting somebody or driving dangerously is against the law. If you know your company is "assaulting somebody" or something obviously illegal, I think you have a duty to let superiors know so that something can be done to fix it. People are both employees and citizens and sometimes must choose between the company and thier own society at large.

cjmcqueen 10y ago
Yes, you do have duty, but not in email. Full disclosure, I'm a Googler. And, thankfully every verbal complaint or concern I've made has been addressed and resolved.
- IshKebab 10y ago
  > but not in an email Sure, that benefits Google. But some people care more about ethics and don't want Google to get away with potentially illegal actions.
  - skybrian 10y ago
    It benefits you as well, unless testifying in court about some careless thing you said in email is your idea of fun.
    - lostboys67 10y ago
      you can still get subpoenaed and get ripped to shreds by a $5k an hour lawyer
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  Also, it's worth noting that no Google employee could say any view except this one in this thread without getting fired. (Likely even if the alleged terms weren't so egregious.) While you may be one of 65,000 who feels listened to, we can't know how many have been silenced.
- englishlanguage 10y ago
  It's not about you. When there is a claim of, say, systematic rape at a place, it is both understandable and really offputting for random people to say "I work there and didn't get raped." If anything, it comes across as kind of tone-deaf and toyish.
- lostboys67 10y ago
  Well making complainants (grievances) verbally is not best HR practice they want everything documented nornmally
debatem1 10y ago
There are not two possibilities here, but four: 1/ Your company could act legally and you think it is acting legally. 2/ Your company could act illegally and you think it is acting legally. 3/ Your company could act legally and you think it is acting illegally. 4/ Your company could act illegally and you think it is acting illegally. Case 1 is fine and case 2 will spur no action from you, so we can discount those. Case four is protected under whistleblower laws, and you should get your own lawyer and only talk to them in no discoverable media anyway. Case three is where corporate policy applies and where you should probably not speculate in email because, well, you're wrong. If you're on the fence between three and four, talk to a lawyer anyways and get off the fence. Find a firm legal footing and then pursue the issue.