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This Luddite has rather a lot of money invested in a professional grade audio interface. Replacing it with modern connectivity would be upwards of a thousand do

by beat 10y ago

This Luddite has rather a lot of money invested in a professional grade audio interface. Replacing it with modern connectivity would be upwards of a thousand dollars. Ouch. And it works perfectly. Why am I throwing away hardware that I like and trust for the relentless march to the future? Any recording interface more substantial than a headphone jack is wired. It's going to remain that way for a while. Audio is a quasi-realtime problem with a lot of bandwidth. Neither Bluetooth nor 802.11 are really reliable enough for the task, and won't be for some time to come. Preserving investment in hardware that works, rather than making a risky expenditure on hardware that may or many not work (and will change process), isn't "Luddite". It's realist. We have the same problem with much more static tech, like ATMs and voting machines. The "one single port" dream you're spouting? I've heard that dream before. It was called "Firewire" back then. Another decade or so, and we'll be digging Lightning connectors out of our junk drawer and saying "Hey, remember this? Do we even need to keep this anymore?" But this is where I get pragmatic. I know I have compatibility issues, so I'm looking at semi-retiring the MBP just for the heavy lifting and compatibility of audio, and maybe looking at what else can be done about photo editing. And a Chromebook for web browsing and other not-hard-work sounds better and better all the time.

module0000 10y ago
> Why am I throwing away hardware that I like and trust for the relentless march to the future? It's all part of change. It's inconvenient(change) when done well, and absolutely show-stopping when done poorly. Apple took a ham-fisted approach to this, and decided you should go through that right now. Not a lot of choice left to people like you(those with significant hardware investments) beyond using refurb gear, or spending a large sum on a brand new set of hardware and accessories(which will go through this same cycle again in the future). It kind of all stinks, but there isn't a terrible lot us little people can do about it.
bluejekyll 10y ago
> ... professional grade audio interface. What is that interface? And it's not supported through the USB-C interface?
- beat 10y ago
  Apogee Ensemble Firewire. A Thunderbolt replacement would be $2500. There are other, less expensive options, but I'm still stuck with a minimum of $300 (new interface that supports ADAT, reuse the Ensemble with that) and probably upwards of $1000 to get equivalent functionality. This, on top of the cost of a new computer.
  - muninn_ 10y ago
    Yeah it may suck for you, but it won't suck for the people that buy whatever this equipment is and then use it over USB-C once that company makes the conversion. It's like if we had no common way of measuring things. Imagine having to walk around with like 10 different tape measures because there was no standard. It's stupid. All of these different port interfaces are just like that.
    - uabstraction 10y ago
      Yeah. It's no big deal. Santa will be coming by real soon with new shiny USB Type C toys to replace our obsolete ones. It's a good thing Santa can write blank checks.
- thatwebdude 10y ago
  Many interfaces of yore didn't do USB (especially ones with lotsa I/O). So many jumped on the FW train due to bandwidth and the fact that USB 3.0 just wasn't in audio hardware developer's sights.
woah 10y ago
What's the big issue with slapping a USB c adapter onto your audio interface and considering it a $30 upgrade? USB c is objectively better.
- snovv_crash 10y ago
  Look up the latency in the USB specs. There is a reason that professional audio equipment used FireWire. Thunderbolt is better, and there is some equipment available for it, but frankly it is overkill. And even then it only works with some USB-C ports, with some cables.
thatwebdude 10y ago
Should have stuck with ADAT!!! They're still putting that crap* in interfaces! *Note, I say "crap" only because I'm not cool enough to have any ADAT interfaces.
dkonofalski 10y ago
Why would you throw away hardware that works? Your current computer still works with it, right? And if that stops working and you need to get another computer, there are adapters that will make it work with the new hardware that don't require you to spend thousands. I don't see the issue here. If the hardware is more important to you, buy the adapters needed. If the computer is more important, buy the new hardware to go with it. The new computers don't suddenly cause your perfectly good hardware to be unusable.
muninn_ 10y ago
You as the individual don't matter. Parts will fail, components will need to be replaced, time moves forward. The future will be those same devices (or similar) using a single cable that will be compatible with everything, or it will be wireless. If for some reason it's not, then you just buy an adapter (which people do now anyway). Your view is short-sighted. You're saying "What about me? What about right now?".
- beat 10y ago
  I'm a customer. Of course I matter. They're losing sales because they're not giving me any reason to stay, and multiple reasons to go. That matters. Suppose I bite the bullet and switch to Windows? Apple's lost me then. They're not going to win me back. And that's not just the Mac. That's maybe my next phone. My next pad. My next router (oh wait, they're getting out of the wireless router game too). Losing customers who have been with them for decades, who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their products and will stop? That fucking well matters.
  - muninn_ 10y ago
    I do dislike them exiting the router business. As for losing customers, well, then we will look at the sales numbers. I wasn't "happy" with the new MacBook Pro lineup, but I personally love the direction they're going. The only bad thing is the price increase, but they will drop the price. But for your "I'm a customer I matter" comment. No you don't. Apple isn't going to let people who want a gigantic laptop with a million different ports get in the way of a wireless or standardized port world. I hate the fact that my work monitors have all these connections. You have all these cords coming out, different port types that do the same thing, and how many times has somebody gone to a meeting only to have to bring some dongle or find out that they have hdmi and the conference room is vga only or something? All of that is stupid. It's 2016. We can do better. I don't want to be tethered to the wall or a some device like a slave.
    - InitialLastName 10y ago
      > The only bad thing is the price increase, but they will drop the price. Out of pure curiosity, when's the last time Apple lowered the price of an existing product?
givinguflac 10y ago
Many inexpensive USB C docks will have firewire. And I've used fw interfaces in the past for audio, I honestly prefer newer options but hey if it works just don't update anything and you'll be find until it dies.

by beat 10y ago

module0000 10y ago

> Why am I throwing away hardware that I like and trust for the relentless march to the future? It's all part of change. It's inconvenient(change) when done well, and absolutely show-stopping when done poorly. Apple took a ham-fisted approach to this, and decided you should go through that right now. Not a lot of choice left to people like you(those with significant hardware investments) beyond using refurb gear, or spending a large sum on a brand new set of hardware and accessories(which will go through this same cycle again in the future). It kind of all stinks, but there isn't a terrible lot us little people can do about it.

bluejekyll 10y ago

> ... professional grade audio interface. What is that interface? And it's not supported through the USB-C interface?

beat 10y ago
Apogee Ensemble Firewire. A Thunderbolt replacement would be $2500. There are other, less expensive options, but I'm still stuck with a minimum of $300 (new interface that supports ADAT, reuse the Ensemble with that) and probably upwards of $1000 to get equivalent functionality. This, on top of the cost of a new computer.
- muninn_ 10y ago
  Yeah it may suck for you, but it won't suck for the people that buy whatever this equipment is and then use it over USB-C once that company makes the conversion. It's like if we had no common way of measuring things. Imagine having to walk around with like 10 different tape measures because there was no standard. It's stupid. All of these different port interfaces are just like that.
  - uabstraction 10y ago
    Yeah. It's no big deal. Santa will be coming by real soon with new shiny USB Type C toys to replace our obsolete ones. It's a good thing Santa can write blank checks.
thatwebdude 10y ago
Many interfaces of yore didn't do USB (especially ones with lotsa I/O). So many jumped on the FW train due to bandwidth and the fact that USB 3.0 just wasn't in audio hardware developer's sights.

woah 10y ago

What's the big issue with slapping a USB c adapter onto your audio interface and considering it a $30 upgrade? USB c is objectively better.

snovv_crash 10y ago
Look up the latency in the USB specs. There is a reason that professional audio equipment used FireWire. Thunderbolt is better, and there is some equipment available for it, but frankly it is overkill. And even then it only works with some USB-C ports, with some cables.

thatwebdude 10y ago

Should have stuck with ADAT!!! They're still putting that crap* in interfaces! *Note, I say "crap" only because I'm not cool enough to have any ADAT interfaces.

dkonofalski 10y ago

Why would you throw away hardware that works? Your current computer still works with it, right? And if that stops working and you need to get another computer, there are adapters that will make it work with the new hardware that don't require you to spend thousands. I don't see the issue here. If the hardware is more important to you, buy the adapters needed. If the computer is more important, buy the new hardware to go with it. The new computers don't suddenly cause your perfectly good hardware to be unusable.

muninn_ 10y ago

You as the individual don't matter. Parts will fail, components will need to be replaced, time moves forward. The future will be those same devices (or similar) using a single cable that will be compatible with everything, or it will be wireless. If for some reason it's not, then you just buy an adapter (which people do now anyway). Your view is short-sighted. You're saying "What about me? What about right now?".

beat 10y ago
I'm a customer. Of course I matter. They're losing sales because they're not giving me any reason to stay, and multiple reasons to go. That matters. Suppose I bite the bullet and switch to Windows? Apple's lost me then. They're not going to win me back. And that's not just the Mac. That's maybe my next phone. My next pad. My next router (oh wait, they're getting out of the wireless router game too). Losing customers who have been with them for decades, who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their products and will stop? That fucking well matters.
- muninn_ 10y ago
  I do dislike them exiting the router business. As for losing customers, well, then we will look at the sales numbers. I wasn't "happy" with the new MacBook Pro lineup, but I personally love the direction they're going. The only bad thing is the price increase, but they will drop the price. But for your "I'm a customer I matter" comment. No you don't. Apple isn't going to let people who want a gigantic laptop with a million different ports get in the way of a wireless or standardized port world. I hate the fact that my work monitors have all these connections. You have all these cords coming out, different port types that do the same thing, and how many times has somebody gone to a meeting only to have to bring some dongle or find out that they have hdmi and the conference room is vga only or something? All of that is stupid. It's 2016. We can do better. I don't want to be tethered to the wall or a some device like a slave.
  - InitialLastName 10y ago
    > The only bad thing is the price increase, but they will drop the price. Out of pure curiosity, when's the last time Apple lowered the price of an existing product?

givinguflac 10y ago

Many inexpensive USB C docks will have firewire. And I've used fw interfaces in the past for audio, I honestly prefer newer options but hey if it works just don't update anything and you'll be find until it dies.