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There is nothing embarrassing about manual work. When I was 17, at one point, I sold toilet paper, on the street, in a third world country, to get some cash for

There is nothing embarrassing about manual work. When I was 17, at one point, I sold toilet paper, on the street, in a third world country, to get some cash for my PC. Various jobs netted me half the cash for my PC over 6 months. My parents could scrape for the rest. 486dx-120mhz. Right now I'm in a comfortable seniority, renting a townhouse ( Toronto is too expensive to buy) and having a family. The c++ projects keep coming, I don't have to work with anything other than my fingers. Life is good. Would I, if anything happens, go back to selling toilet paper or digging cannals to survive and strive? Without a doubt. They raised me to believe there is no shame in manual work, and I still hold that true.

jotato 10y ago
You had Patents at 17?! Kudos! ;) My parents taught me the same way. I have worked many manual labor jobs, and I wouldn't blink an eye to go back if I had to. I wouldn't enjoy it but I have a family to support and I do what I must
- quickben 10y ago
  Parents, sorry, edited it. Family does changed the outlook quite a bit though for some of the people I know.
- dagw 10y ago
  I wouldn't enjoy it but I have a family to support and I do what I must What if you didn't have to support your family, since your wife could to that for you? Would you still feel the same drive to do so if it wasn't a "must"? Personally I feel that that is the crux of the article. He knows he can get a job, but he also knows he doesn't need to, and the sort of jobs he could get won't make a huge difference to their bottom line, and he's having a hard time reconciling all these things to himself.
  - quickben 10y ago
    Yes, I agree with you. Feeling "useful" is subjective but can influence one's self esteem a great deal. On the other end, not having choices can also be motivational. For example, surviving on a single slice of pizza every day ( because it's tax free if it's a slice) will do wonders for motivation once you have a job. So, it depends, happiness is subjective, but choices matter.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
matwood 10y ago
>I don't have to work with anything other than my fingers. Life is good. >Would I, if anything happens, go back to selling toilet paper or digging cannals to survive and strive? Without a doubt. One thing manual work taught me is how to really work. It also taught me that I don't want to do manual work for my entire life, so it ended up being great motivation.
- quickben 10y ago
  You. I like you.
lj3 10y ago
Would you still do so with two kids to feed in an area where the wage for that job wouldn't even feed you, let alone the rest of your family?
- quickben 10y ago
  We discussed this. Renting is precisely for that purpose. With one kid, and planning for one more, we want to be mobile if need be. Family comes first, area second.
dagw 10y ago
Would I, if anything happens, go back to selling toilet paper or digging cannals to survive and strive? Without a doubt. As might very well the guy in the article. The 'problem' is that his survival is in no way at stake. He's looking at the difference between a quite comfortable life and a more comfortable life. When those are the stakes then it's a lot harder to build up that motivation.
canadian_voter 10y ago
We were traveling in Central America and we passed a mansion on a hill: the biggest, nicest house we'd seen in the country. We asked the driver who lived there, thinking it was perhaps the president's mansion. He said: "That's the house of the Toilet Paper King." I've cleaned toilets and programmed computers. I've worked the night shift in a hotel and I've sweated over machines in a sweltering factory. I've sold credit cards and advertising. Five years I opened a bookstore. Just before I had a conversation with someone who knew my tech background, who was shocked that I would consider entering a dead end industry. I must know future was in tech? Kindle, Amazon, the Internet -- weren't bookstores dead? Five years in and I make more than I ever did programming. YMMV, but the lesson I learned is do what YOU think is best and don't be ashamed to do what you need to do to get by. Furthermore, while there may be "dead end jobs", don't ever believe you're in a "dead end life". Stuck working as a oyster diver? Write a best-selling book. Stuck in a patent office? Win a Nobel prize. Stuck in telemarketing? Become a famous actor. You're more than where you are right now. I'm sure this sounds like heresy to some of you, but you don't have to outrun the bear: you only have to find a temporary local maximum, not an enduring global one. Perfection is the enemy of the good. “We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” -- Oscar Wilde
- acedinlowball 10y ago
  > Stuck in telemarketing? Become a famous actor. Are you trolling? No one should take this comment seriously. Is there any way a mod can delete this comment? It seems to violate HN guidelines.
  - canadian_voter 10y ago
    The references, in order, are to Frank Herbert, Albert Einstein and Johhny Depp. The point is that famous, successful people don't always start out that way. Just trying to give people some hope. POP: I read that you did telemarketing. How was that? DEPP: [laughs] I marketed pens—on the phone. But the beauty of the gig was that you had to call these strangers and say, "Hi, how ya doing?" You made up a name, like, "Hey, it's Edward Quartermaine from California. You're eligible to receive this grandfather clock or a trip to Tahiti." You promise them all these things if they buy a gross of pens. It was just awful. But I actually think that was the first experience I had with acting. Source: http://www.interviewmagazine.com/film/johnny-depp/ http://www.interviewmagazine.com/film/johnny-depp/

jotato 10y ago

You had Patents at 17?! Kudos! ;) My parents taught me the same way. I have worked many manual labor jobs, and I wouldn't blink an eye to go back if I had to. I wouldn't enjoy it but I have a family to support and I do what I must

quickben 10y ago
Parents, sorry, edited it. Family does changed the outlook quite a bit though for some of the people I know.
dagw 10y ago
I wouldn't enjoy it but I have a family to support and I do what I must What if you didn't have to support your family, since your wife could to that for you? Would you still feel the same drive to do so if it wasn't a "must"? Personally I feel that that is the crux of the article. He knows he can get a job, but he also knows he doesn't need to, and the sort of jobs he could get won't make a huge difference to their bottom line, and he's having a hard time reconciling all these things to himself.
- quickben 10y ago
  Yes, I agree with you. Feeling "useful" is subjective but can influence one's self esteem a great deal. On the other end, not having choices can also be motivational. For example, surviving on a single slice of pizza every day ( because it's tax free if it's a slice) will do wonders for motivation once you have a job. So, it depends, happiness is subjective, but choices matter.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

matwood 10y ago

>I don't have to work with anything other than my fingers. Life is good. >Would I, if anything happens, go back to selling toilet paper or digging cannals to survive and strive? Without a doubt. One thing manual work taught me is how to really work. It also taught me that I don't want to do manual work for my entire life, so it ended up being great motivation.

quickben 10y ago
You. I like you.

lj3 10y ago

Would you still do so with two kids to feed in an area where the wage for that job wouldn't even feed you, let alone the rest of your family?

quickben 10y ago
We discussed this. Renting is precisely for that purpose. With one kid, and planning for one more, we want to be mobile if need be. Family comes first, area second.

dagw 10y ago

Would I, if anything happens, go back to selling toilet paper or digging cannals to survive and strive? Without a doubt. As might very well the guy in the article. The 'problem' is that his survival is in no way at stake. He's looking at the difference between a quite comfortable life and a more comfortable life. When those are the stakes then it's a lot harder to build up that motivation.

canadian_voter 10y ago

We were traveling in Central America and we passed a mansion on a hill: the biggest, nicest house we'd seen in the country. We asked the driver who lived there, thinking it was perhaps the president's mansion. He said: "That's the house of the Toilet Paper King." I've cleaned toilets and programmed computers. I've worked the night shift in a hotel and I've sweated over machines in a sweltering factory. I've sold credit cards and advertising. Five years I opened a bookstore. Just before I had a conversation with someone who knew my tech background, who was shocked that I would consider entering a dead end industry. I must know future was in tech? Kindle, Amazon, the Internet -- weren't bookstores dead? Five years in and I make more than I ever did programming. YMMV, but the lesson I learned is do what YOU think is best and don't be ashamed to do what you need to do to get by. Furthermore, while there may be "dead end jobs", don't ever believe you're in a "dead end life". Stuck working as a oyster diver? Write a best-selling book. Stuck in a patent office? Win a Nobel prize. Stuck in telemarketing? Become a famous actor. You're more than where you are right now. I'm sure this sounds like heresy to some of you, but you don't have to outrun the bear: you only have to find a temporary local maximum, not an enduring global one. Perfection is the enemy of the good. “We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” -- Oscar Wilde

acedinlowball 10y ago
> Stuck in telemarketing? Become a famous actor. Are you trolling? No one should take this comment seriously. Is there any way a mod can delete this comment? It seems to violate HN guidelines.
- canadian_voter 10y ago
  The references, in order, are to Frank Herbert, Albert Einstein and Johhny Depp. The point is that famous, successful people don't always start out that way. Just trying to give people some hope. POP: I read that you did telemarketing. How was that? DEPP: [laughs] I marketed pens—on the phone. But the beauty of the gig was that you had to call these strangers and say, "Hi, how ya doing?" You made up a name, like, "Hey, it's Edward Quartermaine from California. You're eligible to receive this grandfather clock or a trip to Tahiti." You promise them all these things if they buy a gross of pens. It was just awful. But I actually think that was the first experience I had with acting. Source: http://www.interviewmagazine.com/film/johnny-depp/ http://www.interviewmagazine.com/film/johnny-depp/