5 ms·

What about the computer needed to drive these displays? Will they all require a 1k computer with a top of the line AMD/NVIDIA GPU? That is the biggest cost bar

by arcanus 10y ago

What about the computer needed to drive these displays? Will they all require a 1k computer with a top of the line AMD/NVIDIA GPU? That is the biggest cost barrier to large scale VR adoption. To say nothing of the lack of killer software...

corysama 10y ago
Microsoft is shooting for significantly lower specs than Oculus and Vive. http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/12/08/microsoft-unveils-surprisingly-low-spec-requirements-vr-window-holographic/ http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/12/08/microsoft-unveils... You can run VR on cheaper computers, you just need to downgrade your expectations about what you hope to see. Oculus and Vive agreed on a high quality bar as their recommendation. I guess MS is going to shoot for simpler, more utilitarian apps.
- marricks 10y ago
  That approach sounds good on paper, but when Microsoft have high persistence screens and lower refresh rate coupled with a computer that can drop frames users will feel awful. Lots of nausea. And then, once someone has a shitty time in VR it spoils them for it in the future. I showed my boss the rift DK1 and he's pretty against the whole system now, not to mentioned people he tells about it. There's a reason Oculus/Valve created a high bar, it's easy to get people turned off on it.
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
Only if you want to play gorgeous looking games. For TPS report writing, your built in card is fine. It won't be pretty but you'll be able to use VR Excel or casual gaming with mobile-like low poly and low textures. I think its very clear MS is pushing into the low end to entice businesses, not gamers. I imagine a separate Xbox VR product is going to come out that will be higher spec than these HMDs and will come with proper spatial controllers.
- thinkmassive 10y ago
  Finally, the solution to every downside about open offices! As a bonus we can increase the employee density by about 400% /s
- ashark 10y ago
  > It won't be pretty but you'll be able to use VR Excel > I think its very clear MS is pushing into the low end to entice businesses I can't come up with a reason this would be desirable. There are eye and mental health issues that seem like serious roadblocks to making everyone use these things for whole workdays, and if you have to revert to a normal screen much of the time then what's the point of messing with VR? Just one more gadget. Plus any battery-powered device will suffer from greatly increased power drain compared with doing the same stuff in a normal desktop, even with a lower-fidelity VR experience. 8hr battery with monitor versus 4hr battery with VR (I'm being generous)? The productivity benefit from VR would have to be enormous to make that look like a good trade. I can see it for some niche applications (3d modeling or CAD, maybe) but for MS Office cowboys? What's the pitch?
  - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
    I sometimes use my Vive on Windows for 2D tasks. Its pretty neat, if not a little unpolished. I can make my screen be the equivalent of a 60" TV only a few feet from me, use my full FOV, tile a lot more windows, control how much and what color lighting enters my eyes (goodbye awful office fluorescent), etc. I think there's merit to the idea of a VR windows manager environment running native VR apps. With the proper polish this could be a game-changer. A bit how everyone was skeptical of the iPad, but it really added something to the computing ecosystem that wasn't there before, but didn't and wasn't mean to, replace desktops. I could see AR/VR headsets adding to the computing ecosystem similarly. >I can see it for some niche applications (3d modeling or CAD, maybe) but for MS Office cowboys? What's the pitch? This is what people used to say for multi-core processors, dual displays, high res displays, etc. The reality here is that even "average" computer work will find ways to use extra capacity via innovation, features, etc. Who knows what a VR Excel would look like, but I imagine it can be done well.
zamalek 10y ago
The $1K thing is a bit of a myth nowadays, technology has marched on since the VR debut. This is especially true with the RX480, which is subjectively adequate[1] even for the high-end HMDs. Oculus themselves recommend a $800 PC[2]. > To say nothing of the lack of killer software For some reason, the worst experiences seem to get the most airtime (e.g. Job Simulator). My best guess is that this comes from Twitch, because it's funny to watch someone doing something mundane? Either way, the true gems get overshadowed. If you ever do get to try a device, the one title that sells it is "Universe Sandbox 2." It's on the spectrum of killer software, but not quite there yet - it gives people, especially children, access to times and places that they could never go. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tdq1t0CqBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tdq1t0CqBU [2]: http://www.logicalincrements.com/articles/vrguide#examples http://www.logicalincrements.com/articles/vrguide#examples
- drewrv 10y ago
  Tilt brush and google earth are also up there. The best experiences don't always make for the best youtube videos.
- moron4hire 10y ago
  That's funny, I thought Job Simulator was one of the best experiences I've had, whereas Universe Sandbox was rather... jejune.

by arcanus 10y ago

corysama 10y ago

Microsoft is shooting for significantly lower specs than Oculus and Vive. http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/12/08/microsoft-unveils-surprisingly-low-spec-requirements-vr-window-holographic/ http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2016/12/08/microsoft-unveils... You can run VR on cheaper computers, you just need to downgrade your expectations about what you hope to see. Oculus and Vive agreed on a high quality bar as their recommendation. I guess MS is going to shoot for simpler, more utilitarian apps.

marricks 10y ago
That approach sounds good on paper, but when Microsoft have high persistence screens and lower refresh rate coupled with a computer that can drop frames users will feel awful. Lots of nausea. And then, once someone has a shitty time in VR it spoils them for it in the future. I showed my boss the rift DK1 and he's pretty against the whole system now, not to mentioned people he tells about it. There's a reason Oculus/Valve created a high bar, it's easy to get people turned off on it.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago

Only if you want to play gorgeous looking games. For TPS report writing, your built in card is fine. It won't be pretty but you'll be able to use VR Excel or casual gaming with mobile-like low poly and low textures. I think its very clear MS is pushing into the low end to entice businesses, not gamers. I imagine a separate Xbox VR product is going to come out that will be higher spec than these HMDs and will come with proper spatial controllers.

thinkmassive 10y ago
Finally, the solution to every downside about open offices! As a bonus we can increase the employee density by about 400% /s
ashark 10y ago
> It won't be pretty but you'll be able to use VR Excel > I think its very clear MS is pushing into the low end to entice businesses I can't come up with a reason this would be desirable. There are eye and mental health issues that seem like serious roadblocks to making everyone use these things for whole workdays, and if you have to revert to a normal screen much of the time then what's the point of messing with VR? Just one more gadget. Plus any battery-powered device will suffer from greatly increased power drain compared with doing the same stuff in a normal desktop, even with a lower-fidelity VR experience. 8hr battery with monitor versus 4hr battery with VR (I'm being generous)? The productivity benefit from VR would have to be enormous to make that look like a good trade. I can see it for some niche applications (3d modeling or CAD, maybe) but for MS Office cowboys? What's the pitch?
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  I sometimes use my Vive on Windows for 2D tasks. Its pretty neat, if not a little unpolished. I can make my screen be the equivalent of a 60" TV only a few feet from me, use my full FOV, tile a lot more windows, control how much and what color lighting enters my eyes (goodbye awful office fluorescent), etc. I think there's merit to the idea of a VR windows manager environment running native VR apps. With the proper polish this could be a game-changer. A bit how everyone was skeptical of the iPad, but it really added something to the computing ecosystem that wasn't there before, but didn't and wasn't mean to, replace desktops. I could see AR/VR headsets adding to the computing ecosystem similarly. >I can see it for some niche applications (3d modeling or CAD, maybe) but for MS Office cowboys? What's the pitch? This is what people used to say for multi-core processors, dual displays, high res displays, etc. The reality here is that even "average" computer work will find ways to use extra capacity via innovation, features, etc. Who knows what a VR Excel would look like, but I imagine it can be done well.

zamalek 10y ago

The $1K thing is a bit of a myth nowadays, technology has marched on since the VR debut. This is especially true with the RX480, which is subjectively adequate[1] even for the high-end HMDs. Oculus themselves recommend a $800 PC[2]. > To say nothing of the lack of killer software For some reason, the worst experiences seem to get the most airtime (e.g. Job Simulator). My best guess is that this comes from Twitch, because it's funny to watch someone doing something mundane? Either way, the true gems get overshadowed. If you ever do get to try a device, the one title that sells it is "Universe Sandbox 2." It's on the spectrum of killer software, but not quite there yet - it gives people, especially children, access to times and places that they could never go. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tdq1t0CqBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tdq1t0CqBU [2]: http://www.logicalincrements.com/articles/vrguide#examples http://www.logicalincrements.com/articles/vrguide#examples

drewrv 10y ago
Tilt brush and google earth are also up there. The best experiences don't always make for the best youtube videos.
moron4hire 10y ago
That's funny, I thought Job Simulator was one of the best experiences I've had, whereas Universe Sandbox was rather... jejune.