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> if you're not an idiot ... I lol'd, but to clarify this very accurate point: * Be reliable (never, ever go dark) * Be a nice person (polite and upbeat, eve

> if you're not an idiot ... I lol'd, but to clarify this very accurate point: * Be reliable (never, ever go dark) * Be a nice person (polite and upbeat, even if the client isn't exactly deserving) * Do quality work, regardless of the circumstances (even if you're over budget) If you hit those three points, you will perform far better, revenue-wise, than the average contractor - I did it for years while I was getting my product business off the ground.

beebs93 10y ago
> Be reliable (never, ever go dark) +1 to this point. At a previous agency job I found this to be the biggest pain when hiring/dealing with contractors. As long as they gave decent notice on days off I never complained about their availability.
- future1979 10y ago
  Dumb question .. so you aren't asking for a job at the agency? a Rather asking to be a subcontractor when they get a gig? A bit confused here.
  - Haydos585x2 10y ago
    I've done this professionally for the last 18 months or so and basically how it works is the agency will get in a project, perhaps it's short or long. My contracts range from 3 weeks to 6 months. The agency doesn't want to hire someone on just for this project because maybe they only get a project like this once every 2 years. You get a desk, sometimes a computer, credentials and are basically an employee. You rock up 9-5 like everyone else. At the end of the contract you'll either get extended if they have more work or you'll be onto the next thing. You should be getting paid a bit more for this than if you were an employee because you're often foregoing benefits like sick/annual leave and general job security.
    - lj3 10y ago
      What's your specialty? I can't imagine an agency passing along generic web dev work. It would have to be something they don't have the expertise on hand to deal with, right?
      - Haydos585x2 10y ago
        I focus mostly on front-end work with the ability to work on iOS, PHP, Rails and Phoenix projects. A lot of the places I work at get a lot of front-end work in and need an extra developer for a month or two then they like me and keep me around for a bit longer.
      - wyqydsyq 10y ago
        Personally I've done work like this for agencies who focused on design and front-end that needed some complicated back-end functionality implemented for a client and didn't want to hire their own person internally to handle it.
      - bshimmin 10y ago
        This would really depend on the sort of agency and the type of work they're comfortable doing. Many agencies specialise more in "strategic" work, and have in-house resources for that, but when it comes to actual digital "production" work, this is something they might well farm out to contractors.
      - 1123581321 10y ago
        You'd be surprised. Many agencies don't have any web developers in-house, or have mostly front-end people and are understaffed for significant application-like work.
    - ehnto 10y ago
      Interestingly, this has some legal complications where I am from (South Australia). If you tick all the boxes of being an employee then you must be hired as one. To be a contractor you have to prove autonomy separate from the business, eg your own equipment, set your own hours, and not rely solely on the one client. It is an attempt to stop employers dodging benefits entitlements by hiring their employees as contractors.
analog31 10y ago
Wow, you just described my side work as a freelance musician.
- scarecrowbob 10y ago
  I make about 10% of my income from playing gigs once or twice a week, and I make maybe 10% of my income doing web dev for small agencies. The businesses have always seemed very similar to me, with the exception that it's easier to find remote computer work and the budgets with the computer stuff are uniformly more sustainable.
tbendixson 10y ago
Can you clarify what you mean by "even if you are over budget" ? What if you estimated all of the features, built them, and then the client comes back with a bunch of new features and changes that would require a new contract. Do you do them for free? What about ongoing support? My contracts give the client one week to test any features, and once that week has elapsed without any issues, the contract is considered "complete" and they have to pay the other 50%. Would you be for or against that practice? I guess I am wondering where the balance lies between protecting yourself and protecting your reputation. Unfortunately, clients (just like all human beings) are squishy and forgetful. Your reputation can get damaged through no fault of your own. When do you decide to let someone go because their expectations don't match the contract they signed? Is the penalty to your reputation so high that it's never worth the time you would save by doing this? I am genuinely curious to see how other contractors manage this.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- katzgrau 10y ago
  If the client is coming back with clearly unscoped changes, it's generally out of the question. Be polite at first and let them know that it's "out of scope" and that you could estimate the time required to do it. When I said "clearly over budget," I meant in terms of your own estimate. Sometimes feature X takes longer to build out, and there's the inclination to cut corners to get things done so you don't drive your effective hourly/day rate down, assuming that the poor estimate was yours and you'll eat the cost. But expanding on that, do quality work regardless of the scenario, such as: * The codebase is already a pile of s* left behind by someone else * They're miserable, complaining, sons a' biches no matter what you do for them A fix could be sloppy and take 1 line of code, or quality and take 10 That kinda stuff.

beebs93 10y ago

> Be reliable (never, ever go dark) +1 to this point. At a previous agency job I found this to be the biggest pain when hiring/dealing with contractors. As long as they gave decent notice on days off I never complained about their availability.

future1979 10y ago
Dumb question .. so you aren't asking for a job at the agency? a Rather asking to be a subcontractor when they get a gig? A bit confused here.
- Haydos585x2 10y ago
  I've done this professionally for the last 18 months or so and basically how it works is the agency will get in a project, perhaps it's short or long. My contracts range from 3 weeks to 6 months. The agency doesn't want to hire someone on just for this project because maybe they only get a project like this once every 2 years. You get a desk, sometimes a computer, credentials and are basically an employee. You rock up 9-5 like everyone else. At the end of the contract you'll either get extended if they have more work or you'll be onto the next thing. You should be getting paid a bit more for this than if you were an employee because you're often foregoing benefits like sick/annual leave and general job security.
  - lj3 10y ago
    What's your specialty? I can't imagine an agency passing along generic web dev work. It would have to be something they don't have the expertise on hand to deal with, right?
    - Haydos585x2 10y ago
      I focus mostly on front-end work with the ability to work on iOS, PHP, Rails and Phoenix projects. A lot of the places I work at get a lot of front-end work in and need an extra developer for a month or two then they like me and keep me around for a bit longer.
    - wyqydsyq 10y ago
      Personally I've done work like this for agencies who focused on design and front-end that needed some complicated back-end functionality implemented for a client and didn't want to hire their own person internally to handle it.
    - bshimmin 10y ago
      This would really depend on the sort of agency and the type of work they're comfortable doing. Many agencies specialise more in "strategic" work, and have in-house resources for that, but when it comes to actual digital "production" work, this is something they might well farm out to contractors.
    - 1123581321 10y ago
      You'd be surprised. Many agencies don't have any web developers in-house, or have mostly front-end people and are understaffed for significant application-like work.
  - ehnto 10y ago
    Interestingly, this has some legal complications where I am from (South Australia). If you tick all the boxes of being an employee then you must be hired as one. To be a contractor you have to prove autonomy separate from the business, eg your own equipment, set your own hours, and not rely solely on the one client. It is an attempt to stop employers dodging benefits entitlements by hiring their employees as contractors.

analog31 10y ago

Wow, you just described my side work as a freelance musician.

scarecrowbob 10y ago
I make about 10% of my income from playing gigs once or twice a week, and I make maybe 10% of my income doing web dev for small agencies. The businesses have always seemed very similar to me, with the exception that it's easier to find remote computer work and the budgets with the computer stuff are uniformly more sustainable.

tbendixson 10y ago

Can you clarify what you mean by "even if you are over budget" ? What if you estimated all of the features, built them, and then the client comes back with a bunch of new features and changes that would require a new contract. Do you do them for free? What about ongoing support? My contracts give the client one week to test any features, and once that week has elapsed without any issues, the contract is considered "complete" and they have to pay the other 50%. Would you be for or against that practice? I guess I am wondering where the balance lies between protecting yourself and protecting your reputation. Unfortunately, clients (just like all human beings) are squishy and forgetful. Your reputation can get damaged through no fault of your own. When do you decide to let someone go because their expectations don't match the contract they signed? Is the penalty to your reputation so high that it's never worth the time you would save by doing this? I am genuinely curious to see how other contractors manage this.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
katzgrau 10y ago
If the client is coming back with clearly unscoped changes, it's generally out of the question. Be polite at first and let them know that it's "out of scope" and that you could estimate the time required to do it. When I said "clearly over budget," I meant in terms of your own estimate. Sometimes feature X takes longer to build out, and there's the inclination to cut corners to get things done so you don't drive your effective hourly/day rate down, assuming that the poor estimate was yours and you'll eat the cost. But expanding on that, do quality work regardless of the scenario, such as: * The codebase is already a pile of s* left behind by someone else * They're miserable, complaining, sons a' biches no matter what you do for them A fix could be sloppy and take 1 line of code, or quality and take 10 That kinda stuff.