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There is similar study that showed a positive correlation between longevity and sauna use. Dr. Rhonda Patrick made the following comments its defense which I ha

There is similar study that showed a positive correlation between longevity and sauna use. Dr. Rhonda Patrick made the following comments its defense which I have pasted below. Most of the dismissing comments have a few common themes... 1.) They underestimate the prevalence of sauna use in Finnish culture, where the study was conducted. Finland has a population of around 5 million people, but has around 3 million saunas. Sauna access is ubiquitous and not strictly a marker for socioeconomic status. 2.) They disregard the fact that physical activity was adjusted for. In other words, sauna use wasn't simply correlated to overall physical activity in this case. 3.) They assume that because sauna use is correlated with longevity (after variables are adjusted for) that we should expect Finnish folk to live as long as the trees. In actual fact, while sauna use is probably a healthy habit... the Finnish have habits that undermine their health just like any other country. 4.) They forget about the evidence in lower organisms. In flies and worms heat stress (exposing them to a 30 min. heat chamber just one time) has been shown to boost lifespan by up to 15%. This effect was shown mediated by heat shock proteins (hsps), which are very robustly increased in humans during sauna use. I don't know for sure that the Finnish sauna longevity study has anything to do with an effect from HSPs... but it stands to reason! The fact that lifespan extension was demonstrated in two very different lower organisms also means that this effect is highly evolutionarily conserved. 5.) They also tend to forget that humans that have a gene variant in heat shock protein 70 that makes it active all the time have a significant increase chance of living to be a centenarian (at least 100 years old). For those interested, here's the sauna longevity study in question... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25705824 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25705824

coldtea 10y ago
>In flies and worms heat stress (exposing them to a 30 min. heat chamber just one time) has been shown to boost lifespan by up to 15%. Does that mean one can have the similar effects by sitting close to a heat source for half an hour some, without the full cost (or exact technique) of being into a sauna?
- tincholio 10y ago
  Sitting next to the stove won't get the air round you to 70-80C, nor will you have the periodic steam that you get by pouring water onto the kiuas (sauna stove).
maga 10y ago
> This effect was shown mediated by heat shock proteins (hsps), which are very robustly increased in humans during sauna use. Are they specifically heat related or any temperature stress might do? I've been using cold water exclusively year round for last few years with occasional show/ice baths in winter time. I'm wondering if I'm missing something by avoiding warm water/saunas.
- aroch 10y ago
  Heat shock proteins are really a response to abnormal protein folding (generally speaking) and are found upregulated in a number of stress response scenarios; including cold, heat, and oxidative stress
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    Sounds like desert dwellers should live longer? Re oxidative stress, can you give practical examples of how this is achieved for a person, what physical action creates it? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_stress https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_stress suggests it's associated with lots of great harms - brain diseases, heart disease, etc.. How does that pair with longevity in practice?
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >How does that pair with longevity in practice? It doesn't. It pairs with shock proteins.
andromeduck 10y ago
So does that mean it's likely just the heat and steam room/sunbathing and stuff will likely trigger the same mechanisms?
f_allwein 10y ago
Re: longevity - one of my sauna friends has just stopped going regularly this year. He is 101 years old. Just one data point of course.
sergioisidoro 10y ago
I recently attended a talk by Dr. Rhonda Patrick on the biohacker summit in Finland. It was extremely interesting. Another finding that I remember about physical activity being accounted for is the fact that sauna itself contributes to heart fitness, since cardiac activity is increased during sauna. So effectively reducing prevalence of heart problems in people with no pre conditions. I live in Finland, and I also need to point out that sauna is almost an holistic thing, contributing greatly both to you mental and physical well being.
- auganov 10y ago
  She's got a great youtube channel by the way. One of my favorite. https://www.youtube.com/user/FoundMyFitness/ https://www.youtube.com/user/FoundMyFitness/
- dpatrick86 10y ago
  Here is a video of the talk she presented at that conference... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-J8w2ay94 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-J8w2ay94
eshyong 10y ago
FYI, I got a "Page not found" error when clicking on your link.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  There's byte sporge at the end, here's the link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25705824 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25705824
Fnoord 10y ago
(snip) Do people socialise whilst being in a sauna, or do they rather meditate? Does it differ per person or region? If meditate, has there been cross reference between people who meditate instead of sauna?
- ptaipale 10y ago
  Socialising and meditation differs per person, not really by region in Finland. Mostly the sauna is a family thing (yes, the whole kernel family of parents and small children may go together to their own sauna, everyone's naked, until the children are close to puberty and men and women of family go separately; public saunas such as those in swimming halls or the traditional public washing facilities are strictly gender-segregated.) Sauna is perhaps a bit more of a social happening than meditation, although there are some clear aspects of meditation as well. As of old, sauna is a "holy" place; you're not supposed to yell, as the house-elves would not like it. In traditional farms, sauna was were babies were born, and where the dead were washed, so it's a bit of a place of reverence. And it used to be the cleanest and often warmest part of the household.
  - pimeys 10y ago
    Then again all of my friends go to Sauna together, men and women, naked. There are some famous public saunas where you can do this, especially the now famous Sompasauna in Helsinki. Source: I used to live in Finland.
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      Yes, it happens, though it's definitely not the norm. Most often this occurs with young university students.
      - pimeys 10y ago
        Don't forget the hippies... :)
      - rasjani 10y ago
appleflaxen 10y ago
And yet it's still just a correlation (not causation the way the media and HN title it: we can do better). edit: and your link is broken
JohnJamesRambo 10y ago
Do you know if they tried to control for other "healthiness" variables? Someone that goes to the sauna 4-7 times a week might be a person that pays much more attention to their health. I know physical activity was adjusted for but how about lots of other factors like diet and supplements or even just being a person that listens to their body more? I'd need to see data like that before I would even consider causation for this sauna reduction in dementia effect.
- codeulike 10y ago
  Someone who goes to the sauna 4-7 times a week in Finland is just Finnish. It's what they do.
  - Gravityloss 10y ago
    Well, that much is rare (I'm finnish). I think most people go once or a few times per week.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dpatrick86 10y ago
She also produced a video talking specifically to that study as well, which can be found here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKBsh7YTXQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKBsh7YTXQ
Nomentatus 10y ago
Working URL: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=25705824 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=25705824 Maybe NIH isn't honoring its previous, non-https links anymore for ideological reasons?

coldtea 10y ago

>In flies and worms heat stress (exposing them to a 30 min. heat chamber just one time) has been shown to boost lifespan by up to 15%. Does that mean one can have the similar effects by sitting close to a heat source for half an hour some, without the full cost (or exact technique) of being into a sauna?

tincholio 10y ago
Sitting next to the stove won't get the air round you to 70-80C, nor will you have the periodic steam that you get by pouring water onto the kiuas (sauna stove).

maga 10y ago

> This effect was shown mediated by heat shock proteins (hsps), which are very robustly increased in humans during sauna use. Are they specifically heat related or any temperature stress might do? I've been using cold water exclusively year round for last few years with occasional show/ice baths in winter time. I'm wondering if I'm missing something by avoiding warm water/saunas.

aroch 10y ago
Heat shock proteins are really a response to abnormal protein folding (generally speaking) and are found upregulated in a number of stress response scenarios; including cold, heat, and oxidative stress
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  Sounds like desert dwellers should live longer? Re oxidative stress, can you give practical examples of how this is achieved for a person, what physical action creates it? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_stress https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_stress suggests it's associated with lots of great harms - brain diseases, heart disease, etc.. How does that pair with longevity in practice?
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >How does that pair with longevity in practice? It doesn't. It pairs with shock proteins.

andromeduck 10y ago

So does that mean it's likely just the heat and steam room/sunbathing and stuff will likely trigger the same mechanisms?

f_allwein 10y ago

Re: longevity - one of my sauna friends has just stopped going regularly this year. He is 101 years old. Just one data point of course.

sergioisidoro 10y ago

I recently attended a talk by Dr. Rhonda Patrick on the biohacker summit in Finland. It was extremely interesting. Another finding that I remember about physical activity being accounted for is the fact that sauna itself contributes to heart fitness, since cardiac activity is increased during sauna. So effectively reducing prevalence of heart problems in people with no pre conditions. I live in Finland, and I also need to point out that sauna is almost an holistic thing, contributing greatly both to you mental and physical well being.

auganov 10y ago
She's got a great youtube channel by the way. One of my favorite. https://www.youtube.com/user/FoundMyFitness/ https://www.youtube.com/user/FoundMyFitness/
dpatrick86 10y ago
Here is a video of the talk she presented at that conference... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-J8w2ay94 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-J8w2ay94

eshyong 10y ago

FYI, I got a "Page not found" error when clicking on your link.

maxerickson 10y ago
There's byte sporge at the end, here's the link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25705824 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25705824

Fnoord 10y ago

(snip) Do people socialise whilst being in a sauna, or do they rather meditate? Does it differ per person or region? If meditate, has there been cross reference between people who meditate instead of sauna?

ptaipale 10y ago
Socialising and meditation differs per person, not really by region in Finland. Mostly the sauna is a family thing (yes, the whole kernel family of parents and small children may go together to their own sauna, everyone's naked, until the children are close to puberty and men and women of family go separately; public saunas such as those in swimming halls or the traditional public washing facilities are strictly gender-segregated.) Sauna is perhaps a bit more of a social happening than meditation, although there are some clear aspects of meditation as well. As of old, sauna is a "holy" place; you're not supposed to yell, as the house-elves would not like it. In traditional farms, sauna was were babies were born, and where the dead were washed, so it's a bit of a place of reverence. And it used to be the cleanest and often warmest part of the household.
- pimeys 10y ago
  Then again all of my friends go to Sauna together, men and women, naked. There are some famous public saunas where you can do this, especially the now famous Sompasauna in Helsinki. Source: I used to live in Finland.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    Yes, it happens, though it's definitely not the norm. Most often this occurs with young university students.
    - pimeys 10y ago
      Don't forget the hippies... :)
    - rasjani 10y ago

appleflaxen 10y ago

And yet it's still just a correlation (not causation the way the media and HN title it: we can do better). edit: and your link is broken

JohnJamesRambo 10y ago

Do you know if they tried to control for other "healthiness" variables? Someone that goes to the sauna 4-7 times a week might be a person that pays much more attention to their health. I know physical activity was adjusted for but how about lots of other factors like diet and supplements or even just being a person that listens to their body more? I'd need to see data like that before I would even consider causation for this sauna reduction in dementia effect.

codeulike 10y ago
Someone who goes to the sauna 4-7 times a week in Finland is just Finnish. It's what they do.
- Gravityloss 10y ago
  Well, that much is rare (I'm finnish). I think most people go once or a few times per week.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

dpatrick86 10y ago

She also produced a video talking specifically to that study as well, which can be found here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKBsh7YTXQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKBsh7YTXQ

Nomentatus 10y ago

Working URL: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=25705824 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=25705824 Maybe NIH isn't honoring its previous, non-https links anymore for ideological reasons?