4 ms·

I actually agree about the (mis)labeling - I was not consciously doing it, if it makes a difference. It is something I will be cognizant of in the future. My po

I actually agree about the (mis)labeling - I was not consciously doing it, if it makes a difference. It is something I will be cognizant of in the future. My point was to simply say that there is more to managing harassment than is presently being addressed. I have to work with men all my life, and I cannot do that if I start making them uncomfortable now ! This is the problem with this situation to begin with - it is so fraught with conflict even if everyone has the best of intentions.

pokemongoaway 10y ago
Why did you leave out details about the initial issue? You described being defended by your manager - and you implied he only defended you because of your sex; he is sexist. This seems very important in this context.
- pklausler 10y ago
  At what point did sexist discrimination enter the scenario? That's what's not clear. If the original offense against which the employee was defended by her manager was inherently sexist, then the defense need not be viewed as being inherently sexist. (i.e., a manager can and should defend an employee against sexist behavior, and such defense isn't a priori sexist behavior itself even though the defensive behavior wouldn't have ever taken place if the employee weren't of their particular gender, which would of course make it otherwise look sexist.)
- smsowmya 10y ago
  space - impossible to cover everything in 10-12 minute read. sexism can also be non-verbal, which again, is hard to convey.
  - Twisell 10y ago
    Yep but so the counsel I would give to anyone in such an undesirable situation will be the same I give to everyone that is subject to any form of harassment in workplace : Gather proofs! A good friend of mine just get out of an impossible job position where she was under constant oppression of her boss and one of her subordinate (that incidentally was a friend of her boss)... She started documenting everything so that when thing escalated she had proofs to show the big boss and guess what the big boss sided with her. But she left anyway for a better work environement. But guess what, this story involved only women (boss, big boss, subordinate). So that's why I think that no matter which "type" of discrimination you met at your job place (sexual, racial, physical, age, etc...) the common response is "document you experience". Cause you'll need this to sound credible. PS: For people who can read french, I'll recommend reading the "comme convenu" story of the illustrator Laurel. She had documented the bad experience her family has gone trough in the form of a web comic book. They choose to co-found a startup in California but were basically hostage of a startup CEO that hold them using financial and visa menace. (The story is not yet finished) https://commeconvenu.com https://commeconvenu.com
- smsowmya 10y ago
  also, when the hostility started, one of the men actually went - "it's like that now, is it ?". As if I had changed my behavior since my incident ( which i hadn't ). I have gotten called hottie, haughty like a supermodel, comments about needing to lose weight, comments about being unmarried, and much worse. These statements were also ALWAYS implied in a conversation, never direct. that's what makes it difficult to identify or confront.
  - mixedCase 10y ago
    > These statements were also ALWAYS implied in a conversation Can you quote one example?

pokemongoaway 10y ago

Why did you leave out details about the initial issue? You described being defended by your manager - and you implied he only defended you because of your sex; he is sexist. This seems very important in this context.

pklausler 10y ago
At what point did sexist discrimination enter the scenario? That's what's not clear. If the original offense against which the employee was defended by her manager was inherently sexist, then the defense need not be viewed as being inherently sexist. (i.e., a manager can and should defend an employee against sexist behavior, and such defense isn't a priori sexist behavior itself even though the defensive behavior wouldn't have ever taken place if the employee weren't of their particular gender, which would of course make it otherwise look sexist.)
smsowmya 10y ago
space - impossible to cover everything in 10-12 minute read. sexism can also be non-verbal, which again, is hard to convey.
- Twisell 10y ago
  Yep but so the counsel I would give to anyone in such an undesirable situation will be the same I give to everyone that is subject to any form of harassment in workplace : Gather proofs! A good friend of mine just get out of an impossible job position where she was under constant oppression of her boss and one of her subordinate (that incidentally was a friend of her boss)... She started documenting everything so that when thing escalated she had proofs to show the big boss and guess what the big boss sided with her. But she left anyway for a better work environement. But guess what, this story involved only women (boss, big boss, subordinate). So that's why I think that no matter which "type" of discrimination you met at your job place (sexual, racial, physical, age, etc...) the common response is "document you experience". Cause you'll need this to sound credible. PS: For people who can read french, I'll recommend reading the "comme convenu" story of the illustrator Laurel. She had documented the bad experience her family has gone trough in the form of a web comic book. They choose to co-found a startup in California but were basically hostage of a startup CEO that hold them using financial and visa menace. (The story is not yet finished) https://commeconvenu.com https://commeconvenu.com
smsowmya 10y ago
also, when the hostility started, one of the men actually went - "it's like that now, is it ?". As if I had changed my behavior since my incident ( which i hadn't ). I have gotten called hottie, haughty like a supermodel, comments about needing to lose weight, comments about being unmarried, and much worse. These statements were also ALWAYS implied in a conversation, never direct. that's what makes it difficult to identify or confront.
- mixedCase 10y ago
  > These statements were also ALWAYS implied in a conversation Can you quote one example?