9 ms·

Apple should have added a Amp or Watt usage number, not removed the estimate. Similarly, most new cars have fuel estimates on their dashboards. But its not just

by dexwiz 10y ago

Apple should have added a Amp or Watt usage number, not removed the estimate. Similarly, most new cars have fuel estimates on their dashboards. But its not just miles to empty, its also miles per gallon. So drivers can get feedback on usage rates versus total capacity. I imagine the argument about this, is that most people don't have any handle on what a Watt or mAh is. But people don't have a good handle on how far 25 miles is, or how much a gallon is in comparison to their tank. Think about it, you rarely see the fuel you put into your car beyond a few drips at the pump. And while you may know that its 25 miles between your house in work, if I took a random point on a map and said find something 25 miles away, with no scale, most people couldn't do it. Gallons and MPG are just arbitrary numbers that consumers have learned how to compare. If you exposed those numbers, they would get a better handling on what their device consumes, and how their activities affect it.

bryanlarsen 10y ago
They still have the percentage indicator, which is presumably directly proportional to mAh remaining, and people generally have a good understanding of what percentage is. Using your analogy, your gas gauge doesn't show the number of gallons, it shows a relative level.
- bendykstra 10y ago
  His point is that Apple should show the energy consumption rate in addition to the percentage indicator, just as cars show fuel consumption as mpg and fuel remaining as a percentage.
- dexwiz 10y ago
  Older gauges just showed percentages, but many new cars will tell you gallons, current MPG, and an estimated distance to empty.
  - pyromine 10y ago
    How far back do we have to go to get to cars that just showed percentages, cause I have literally never experienced one in my life. Even my model year 2000 clunker has instant MPG, average MPG, miles to empty and a gas gauge with actual gallons.
    - Cerium 10y ago
      My 1999 Camry has a dial that shows full, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 and a red line.
    - ismarc 10y ago
      My 2011 only has the gas gauge, without any gallon markers on it and numerous 2016/2017 cars I've been test driving haven't had it. It's certain classes of cars that have had it for quite a while, nowhere close to all.
    - daxelrod 10y ago
      My 2007 Toyota Matrix just has an analog fuel gauge that goes from Full to Empty with marks for each quarter. No gallons, no MPG calculations.
    - lobster_johnson 10y ago
      Not far. My last car was a Toyota Yaris 2001, and the display (center top) only has percentage, and it's not very fine-grained: http://i.imgur.com/ESXap6F.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ESXap6F.jpg
    - korethr 10y ago
      My 2003 VW Golf has a gas gauge that shows percentages - the individual markings represent 12.5%, not individual remaining gallons (it's a 14.5 gallon tank, not an 8 gallon one) My mother's 2009 Jetta has similar. Whether or not the instrument cluster implements a multi-function display that shows instant/average MPG or miles to empty, every car I have ever driven, from the 80s clunkers of my youth to brand shiny new rentals has had such a fuel gauge. Such a style is cheaper to implement. Resistive float sensor in the tank, run a wire to a mini 90 degree needle gauge in the instrument cluster, done. Instant/Average MPG and miles to empty are additional fanciness that up until recently, came standard only on higher-end cars, or was part of an optional package that may or may not be avail on lower end brands/models.
- dmeola 10y ago
  My car tells me how many miles I have left by basing its estimation on my consumption over the past 30 miles. It has been pretty accurate.
  - eridius 10y ago
    I think you can liken the situation with macOS to switching from a gas car to a Hybrid. Gas cars have relatively predictable MPG. Hybrids don't. Your Hybrid can go from 25MPG up to 100+MPG depending on the way you drive, and it can bounce back and forth between the two constantly during a trip. Now, I have to admit, I don't own a car at all and so I don't know if hybrid cars actually try to estimate mileage remaining, but if they do, then surely their estimate will change wildly as you change how you drive (e.g. smooth highway driving to traffic jam to city driving to aggressive driving to defensive driving, etc).
    - wl 10y ago
      I own a Prius. Fuel efficiency doesn't seem to be any more variable than the conventional cars I've driven. The distance remaining estimate seems reasonably accurate in that it goes down ~50 miles after I've driven 50 miles.
      - eridius 10y ago
        Whenever I drive a Prius with ZipCar, the MPG numbers change wildly while I drive, and even the average MPG can change by 5–10 miles over the course of a decent drive. I assume the distance remaining estimate is based on that average MPG number, but since I have seen it change by significant amounts, that means the distance remaining estimate certainly is reasonably inaccurate. If you always drive your car in the same manner then sure, you'll probably have a reasonable estimate. But similarly if all you do with your computer is browse the web, you'll also have a predictable battery remaining estimate. But while many people do drive fairly consistently, your usage of your computer probably has a lot more variety in terms of energy impact.
    - ClassyJacket 10y ago
      That's why you average it over some time, not just take the momentary usage.
dpark 10y ago
> its also miles per gallon. So drivers can get feedback on usage rates versus total capacity. I don't know anyone who actually adjusts their driving to try to push the mpg metric up. I'm sure there is some tiny subset of the population that does this but in general this isn't actually a useful number except to make people annoyed that they aren't getting the EPA estimated fuel efficiency. Car manufacturers don't provide this because it's actually useful. They provide it because it's easy and people like bells and whistles. > if I took a random point on a map and said find something 25 miles away, with no scale, most people couldn't do it. I don't think this is a particularly meaningful observation since maps have scales precisely because it's basically impossible to know the distance between two points without a scale. This isn't a function of not intuitively grasping what a mile it. It's a function of maps being scaled. Even if you have an amazing grasp on distances it won't directly translate to the map.
- chadgeidel 10y ago
  raises hand I'm not a hardcore hypermiler, but just doing little tricks (minimizing throttle/braking, "reading" traffic, maintaining an appropriate speed/distance relative to other cars, etc) makes quite a bit of difference in the commute. I have a small (tiny?) turbocharged car and can get 40-42 mpg on my commute between Denver and Boulder.
  - Declanomous 10y ago
    I get ~18 MPG in my Impreza, and even though my fuel mileage sucks I still take steps to improve my fuel mileage. Just because my commute is short and I'm flooring the car down the on-ramp to the highway doesn't mean I don't want to take steps to improve my mileage within the boundaries of how I want to drive my car. For instance, is it better to be in second or third gear when in slow but flowing traffic? In the same sense, I'd like to know how my computer usage is affecting my battery life. Do the extra tabs I have open in chrome matter, or should I bookmark them and close them until I need them? Just because I value one thing over another, doesn't mean the less valued option doesn't come in to play when making a decision.
    - 10y ago
specialist 10y ago
Apple should have added a Amp or Watt usage number... I want Activity Monitor to show how much battery each process is using.
- eridius 10y ago
  It does. It's the "Energy" tab. It doesn't give you amperage or anything, but it tells you the "Energy Impact", which is a relative measurement of the current energy usage, and "Avg Energy Impact" which is the average for the app. Similarly, if you click on the battery menu, it will call out any processes that are using "significant" energy.
  - specialist 10y ago
    My bad. Thanks.
rebuilder 10y ago
I'm guessing Apple don't want their customers worrying about the way their computer habits affect battery usage. They sell premium hardware that "just works". Reminding the user they need to keep an eye on what they do with the device seems incompatible with that mandate.

by dexwiz 10y ago

bryanlarsen 10y ago

They still have the percentage indicator, which is presumably directly proportional to mAh remaining, and people generally have a good understanding of what percentage is. Using your analogy, your gas gauge doesn't show the number of gallons, it shows a relative level.

bendykstra 10y ago
His point is that Apple should show the energy consumption rate in addition to the percentage indicator, just as cars show fuel consumption as mpg and fuel remaining as a percentage.
dexwiz 10y ago
Older gauges just showed percentages, but many new cars will tell you gallons, current MPG, and an estimated distance to empty.
- pyromine 10y ago
  How far back do we have to go to get to cars that just showed percentages, cause I have literally never experienced one in my life. Even my model year 2000 clunker has instant MPG, average MPG, miles to empty and a gas gauge with actual gallons.
  - Cerium 10y ago
    My 1999 Camry has a dial that shows full, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 and a red line.
  - ismarc 10y ago
    My 2011 only has the gas gauge, without any gallon markers on it and numerous 2016/2017 cars I've been test driving haven't had it. It's certain classes of cars that have had it for quite a while, nowhere close to all.
  - daxelrod 10y ago
    My 2007 Toyota Matrix just has an analog fuel gauge that goes from Full to Empty with marks for each quarter. No gallons, no MPG calculations.
  - lobster_johnson 10y ago
    Not far. My last car was a Toyota Yaris 2001, and the display (center top) only has percentage, and it's not very fine-grained: http://i.imgur.com/ESXap6F.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ESXap6F.jpg
  - korethr 10y ago
    My 2003 VW Golf has a gas gauge that shows percentages - the individual markings represent 12.5%, not individual remaining gallons (it's a 14.5 gallon tank, not an 8 gallon one) My mother's 2009 Jetta has similar. Whether or not the instrument cluster implements a multi-function display that shows instant/average MPG or miles to empty, every car I have ever driven, from the 80s clunkers of my youth to brand shiny new rentals has had such a fuel gauge. Such a style is cheaper to implement. Resistive float sensor in the tank, run a wire to a mini 90 degree needle gauge in the instrument cluster, done. Instant/Average MPG and miles to empty are additional fanciness that up until recently, came standard only on higher-end cars, or was part of an optional package that may or may not be avail on lower end brands/models.
dmeola 10y ago
My car tells me how many miles I have left by basing its estimation on my consumption over the past 30 miles. It has been pretty accurate.
- eridius 10y ago
  I think you can liken the situation with macOS to switching from a gas car to a Hybrid. Gas cars have relatively predictable MPG. Hybrids don't. Your Hybrid can go from 25MPG up to 100+MPG depending on the way you drive, and it can bounce back and forth between the two constantly during a trip. Now, I have to admit, I don't own a car at all and so I don't know if hybrid cars actually try to estimate mileage remaining, but if they do, then surely their estimate will change wildly as you change how you drive (e.g. smooth highway driving to traffic jam to city driving to aggressive driving to defensive driving, etc).
  - wl 10y ago
    I own a Prius. Fuel efficiency doesn't seem to be any more variable than the conventional cars I've driven. The distance remaining estimate seems reasonably accurate in that it goes down ~50 miles after I've driven 50 miles.
    - eridius 10y ago
      Whenever I drive a Prius with ZipCar, the MPG numbers change wildly while I drive, and even the average MPG can change by 5–10 miles over the course of a decent drive. I assume the distance remaining estimate is based on that average MPG number, but since I have seen it change by significant amounts, that means the distance remaining estimate certainly is reasonably inaccurate. If you always drive your car in the same manner then sure, you'll probably have a reasonable estimate. But similarly if all you do with your computer is browse the web, you'll also have a predictable battery remaining estimate. But while many people do drive fairly consistently, your usage of your computer probably has a lot more variety in terms of energy impact.
  - ClassyJacket 10y ago
    That's why you average it over some time, not just take the momentary usage.

dpark 10y ago

> its also miles per gallon. So drivers can get feedback on usage rates versus total capacity. I don't know anyone who actually adjusts their driving to try to push the mpg metric up. I'm sure there is some tiny subset of the population that does this but in general this isn't actually a useful number except to make people annoyed that they aren't getting the EPA estimated fuel efficiency. Car manufacturers don't provide this because it's actually useful. They provide it because it's easy and people like bells and whistles. > if I took a random point on a map and said find something 25 miles away, with no scale, most people couldn't do it. I don't think this is a particularly meaningful observation since maps have scales precisely because it's basically impossible to know the distance between two points without a scale. This isn't a function of not intuitively grasping what a mile it. It's a function of maps being scaled. Even if you have an amazing grasp on distances it won't directly translate to the map.

chadgeidel 10y ago
raises hand I'm not a hardcore hypermiler, but just doing little tricks (minimizing throttle/braking, "reading" traffic, maintaining an appropriate speed/distance relative to other cars, etc) makes quite a bit of difference in the commute. I have a small (tiny?) turbocharged car and can get 40-42 mpg on my commute between Denver and Boulder.
- Declanomous 10y ago
  I get ~18 MPG in my Impreza, and even though my fuel mileage sucks I still take steps to improve my fuel mileage. Just because my commute is short and I'm flooring the car down the on-ramp to the highway doesn't mean I don't want to take steps to improve my mileage within the boundaries of how I want to drive my car. For instance, is it better to be in second or third gear when in slow but flowing traffic? In the same sense, I'd like to know how my computer usage is affecting my battery life. Do the extra tabs I have open in chrome matter, or should I bookmark them and close them until I need them? Just because I value one thing over another, doesn't mean the less valued option doesn't come in to play when making a decision.
  - 10y ago

specialist 10y ago

Apple should have added a Amp or Watt usage number... I want Activity Monitor to show how much battery each process is using.

eridius 10y ago
It does. It's the "Energy" tab. It doesn't give you amperage or anything, but it tells you the "Energy Impact", which is a relative measurement of the current energy usage, and "Avg Energy Impact" which is the average for the app. Similarly, if you click on the battery menu, it will call out any processes that are using "significant" energy.
- specialist 10y ago
  My bad. Thanks.

rebuilder 10y ago

I'm guessing Apple don't want their customers worrying about the way their computer habits affect battery usage. They sell premium hardware that "just works". Reminding the user they need to keep an eye on what they do with the device seems incompatible with that mandate.