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I'm astonished this is as high as it is. > did she try to talk to her harassers directly before going to a manager? There are a huge number of reasons why you
by kalleth 10y ago
I'm astonished this is as high as it is.
> did she try to talk to her harassers directly before going to a manager?
There are a huge number of reasons why you should not be expected to do this. The harasser can be in a position of authority, for example. Even separately to that (and i understand this is a reducio argument, but..) would you ask an abuse victim to speak to their abuser? No, they go straight to the police.
> HR is not your friend; it's one of the stakeholders' defense lines.
This is a problem that needs fixing, rather than a status quo that needs defending.
> When you have weeks, months, in some cases, I think it is all right to expect decisions from anyone.
I report an assault. Do I suggest to the police how they should investigate and prosecute this assault? No. The victim reports the behaviour, but other parties should determine how to investigate and proceed with that report.
> This is embarrassing - but there are people out there who lie. Especially these days, with the problems of fake news, it's easy to get suspicious.
Sometimes, yes, people do lie, but each complaint of any nature should be treated confidentially so reports of abuses like this can be made without fear of repercussion.
In the (very unlikely) event of the victim being untruthful, the matter should be dropped, not blow back on the reporter -- or nobody will report real problems for fear of being unfairly punished themselves.
> s/women/people
This didn't need to be said. The author is talking about her experiences of harassment as a woman in technology. Yes, there are other problems that also need solving. This isn't the hill on which to make this point.
- sqldba 10y ago> > HR is not your friend; it's one of the stakeholders' defense lines. > This is a problem that needs fixing, rather than a status quo that needs defending. Ah, but it's not a gendered problem, and outside of gender laws, there's not much you can do to "fix" something nebulous like this in corporate America.
- Merad 10y ago> This is a problem that needs fixing, rather than a status quo that needs defending. This is not a problem that can realistically be fixed. An organization that's going to work for the best interests of employees cannot be paid by the company, nor can it report to the company or someone with whom the company has significant influence. That means unions.
- smsowmya 10y agosigh - but management can do a better job managing and if victims know what or how to recognize problems, they can be better prepared to deal with the situation more effectively. which is the point of this piece.
- FireBeyond 10y ago"In the (very unlikely) event of the victim being untruthful, the matter should be dropped, not blow back on the reporter -- or nobody will report real problems for fear of being unfairly punished themselves." What? Apparently, being untruthful about reporting harassment could result in the untruthful reporter being _unfairly_ punished? Sounds like an all-win situation. Report harassment, true or not. If it helps your lot in life/work, great. If not, even if proven false, it gets dropped, non-consequentially. After all, it would be unfair to punish you...
- Flenser 10y agoI think kalleth was saying that _fairly_ punishing an untruthful reporter could discourage future _truthful_ reporters as they may fear being _unfairly_ punished.
- sametmax 10y ago> There are a huge number of reasons why you should not be expected to do this. When you get attacked in the street, talking is the first thing you should do. When you are harassed by a teacher in class as well. You always need to talk to the person attacking you unless it's too dangerous to do so. It may fail, but if you don't do it, you basically give up your ability to act. > This didn't need to be said This does need to be said. There is a high focus on making everything about gender these days, and it's very detrimental. It makes people focusing on specifics, instead of global issues. Worst, it usually focus on fighting against something instead of empowering the victims, which needs to be done for long term results. > each complaint of any nature should be treated confidentially so reports of abuses like this can be made without fear of repercussion. That's actually very hard to do, but it's true it would be the ideal call.