6 ms·

> The only thing I miss from the article: did she try to talk to her harassers directly before going to a manager? Maybe I misread something but it seems like t

by adekok 10y ago

> The only thing I miss from the article: did she try to talk to her harassers directly before going to a manager? Maybe I misread something but it seems like this did not happen, yet this should always be the first step. I understand where you're coming from. But... there should be no need for one adult to educate another that bad behavior is unacceptable. Hi! I know you enjoy punching me from behind when I'm doing my work, but could you please stop? The larger issue is that (like most companies) actually doing anything is secondary to management politics. Protecting the bureaucracy is the #1 goal.

smsowmya 10y ago
thank you :-) i think that is the point of the article .. we are in a chicken and egg situation here .. no one believes women when they say there are problems and hence there is no progress ..
- adekok 10y ago
  > no one believes women when they say there are problems and hence there is no progress .. There are huge public awareness campaigns around all of these issues.
  - gcp 10y ago
    Yes, and for good reason :-)
    - adekok 10y ago
      So when people say no one believes women when they say there are problems, and at the same time, there are huge public awareness campaigns, I have to point out the inherent contradiction involved. Everything I see in the media is that there are not only huge awareness campaigns, but that when something does happen, there are also huge outcries about it.
      - smsowmya 10y ago
        look at the skeptics in this thread as an example .. does it give you a warm and fuzzy ? this is a stressful thread to read.
        mixedCase 10y ago
        We are complete strangers to the situation, we are only hearing one side of the story, and now we're the bad guys because we don't take 100% of what you said for granted?. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, as sexism is undoubtedly a real issue in our society and our industry, but every other comment I read of yours makes it ever closer to a textbook case of a baseless accusation made to get back at someone you didn't like, and I'm ready to be conclusive about this. Do you realize how much this impacts all future cries for help from women being grossly mistreated because of their gender? My SO is going into engineering and it boils my blood to think how much people are willing to abuse the system until she can no longer be protected by it and we're back to the 1950's.
threatofrain 10y ago
I'm afraid that HR protection of corporate interests is only tangentially related to sexism and racism. Even if you banished racism and sexism from the earth, that HR machinery will still be doing everything in its power to build a paper trail narrative against you should you make the company uncomfortable in any way.
cryptarch 10y ago
Isn't a logical extension of having a company be responsible to shareholders, that it shall optimize for no lawsuits, as they're very pricy and damage the brand more than a blog post?
pmlnr 10y ago
> there should be no need for one adult to educate another that bad behavior is unacceptable. In a perfect world, where each and every one of us is aware of each and every culture around the world, this is true. Right now, we are in the middle of a process, where we encounter with culture we never dealt with before. In some societies the boundaries for certain acts - such as personal space, physical contact, etc - is completely different to others. Therefore I do believe talking could solve a small percentage of situations, which one considers harassment. ( Not the one in the article. )

by adekok 10y ago

smsowmya 10y ago

thank you :-) i think that is the point of the article .. we are in a chicken and egg situation here .. no one believes women when they say there are problems and hence there is no progress ..

adekok 10y ago
> no one believes women when they say there are problems and hence there is no progress .. There are huge public awareness campaigns around all of these issues.
- gcp 10y ago
  Yes, and for good reason :-)
  - adekok 10y ago
    So when people say no one believes women when they say there are problems, and at the same time, there are huge public awareness campaigns, I have to point out the inherent contradiction involved. Everything I see in the media is that there are not only huge awareness campaigns, but that when something does happen, there are also huge outcries about it.
    - smsowmya 10y ago
      look at the skeptics in this thread as an example .. does it give you a warm and fuzzy ? this is a stressful thread to read.
      - mixedCase 10y ago
        We are complete strangers to the situation, we are only hearing one side of the story, and now we're the bad guys because we don't take 100% of what you said for granted?. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, as sexism is undoubtedly a real issue in our society and our industry, but every other comment I read of yours makes it ever closer to a textbook case of a baseless accusation made to get back at someone you didn't like, and I'm ready to be conclusive about this. Do you realize how much this impacts all future cries for help from women being grossly mistreated because of their gender? My SO is going into engineering and it boils my blood to think how much people are willing to abuse the system until she can no longer be protected by it and we're back to the 1950's.

threatofrain 10y ago

I'm afraid that HR protection of corporate interests is only tangentially related to sexism and racism. Even if you banished racism and sexism from the earth, that HR machinery will still be doing everything in its power to build a paper trail narrative against you should you make the company uncomfortable in any way.

cryptarch 10y ago

Isn't a logical extension of having a company be responsible to shareholders, that it shall optimize for no lawsuits, as they're very pricy and damage the brand more than a blog post?

pmlnr 10y ago

> there should be no need for one adult to educate another that bad behavior is unacceptable. In a perfect world, where each and every one of us is aware of each and every culture around the world, this is true. Right now, we are in the middle of a process, where we encounter with culture we never dealt with before. In some societies the boundaries for certain acts - such as personal space, physical contact, etc - is completely different to others. Therefore I do believe talking could solve a small percentage of situations, which one considers harassment. ( Not the one in the article. )