15 ms·

Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

148 points by Dowwie 10y ago

trentmb 10y ago
I miss running.
- cardamomo 10y ago
  I feel your pain. Two running moments that stand out to me: (1) when I first got into a regular running rhythm and noticed how much clearer my thinking felt after runs, and (2) when I injured my foot and was out of commission for a few weeks and noticed how irritable and fidgety I felt. Running is addictive!
  - jschwartzi 10y ago
    I both lift weights and run, and I've experienced similar irritability even after a 3 day layoff. After a week my muscles start to "itch" and the only thing that provides any relief is exercise.
  - trentmb 10y ago
    Yeah. Went to a clinic because I couldn't put any weight on my left foot without collapsing. Referred to a podiatrist. "Peroneal tendonitis". Flat feet. My legs are like ><. Got custom molded inserts. My legs look like )( with them. Didn't realize the amount of everyday pain I was in 'til I used them. Doesn't really matter though. I've already developed arthritis in my knees and ankles at the age of 27, any sort of impact exercise is verboten. Thanks for letting me vent.
    - Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago
      I'm also 27. When I was about 11 my left knee collapsed and I was diagnosed with Osgood Schlatter syndrome - the "syndrome" part of the name makes it sound a genetic, I don't believe it strictly is - it's just when the tendon tears off your patella. Anyway, recovered from that with physio. Later, teenage years, I was also diagnosed with flat feet, needed orthotics. I don't wear them now, I probably should though as my ankles do get sore. This also lead to back problems that I went to the physio for when I was 19. When I was 17 I tore the ligament in my left ankle playing Rugby. That one hurt for ages whenever I ran or walked until last year where I tripped over in a car park and ended up on crutches because I'd torn it again. Think I might have torn it clear off, because it no longer burns when I run or walk. So that's a win! I recently started playing basketball again and broke my Scaphoid (left wrist) only 4 games in. It's nearly finished healing... I hope. I don't know how serious your arthritis is, but if it's manageable then you're almost certainly better off exercising than not - your body will only deteriorate more if you don't. That's not to say I exercise anywhere near as much as I should (just walking the dogs at the moment), however, at least personally I don't use injuries as an excuse not to exercise, if I don't it's purely because I'm being lazy. On the plus side, since I started to put on a bit of a gut my back pain has decreased because I've improved my posture by almost always tensing my core to suck in my belly ;) New year's resolution, more exercise!
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - trentmb 10y ago
        Thanks for the shaming brah
        xyzzy_plugh 10y ago
        It's so unfortunate that so many people don't understand when young people are, effectively, disabled. A friend's parents stopped talking to him and shamed him because he applied for a handicap parking permit (doctor recommended). He can't walk much more than 100 feet without agonizing pain. He's 28. The father's words were something like "how will you feel when you are taking away that parking spot from an elderly person who really needs it?" I hope it gets better.
        trentmb 10y ago
        I feel like an ass now- I'm nowhere near as bad as your friend yet- it certainly hasn't hit my hips or back yet, my autonomy isn't affected, I don't need painkillers. For what it's worth, pass on my support to him- if only for selfish reasons; I see myself becoming like him in the near future.
        Jtsummers 10y ago
        NB: This may not apply to you, but here's my experience. I was about 225 lbs and had experienced (mild) arthritis in my knees, starting in my late-20s. Around age 32 I resolved to finally get in shape, the arthritis was, at this point, mild-to-moderate, still in the knees (now in the hands). Losing the weight and regular exercise (in my case running, which I'd been doing as part of soccer on the field, but not for distance until this point) greatly improved my arthritis symptoms. The evenings after a run, my knees felt fantastic. Weeks where I skipped, the symptoms returned (no worse than before, just back to "normal"). Once the weight was lost, however, the symptoms almost completely went away. This is very much a YMMV situation, but it's something to consider. Exercising the full range-of-motion of the joint + weight loss can help a lot, even if it is just delaying the inevitable. I'll happily accept 5-20 years of improved mobility even if I end up immobilized by this like a good chunk of my ancestors. The exercise needn't be running. Cycling, elliptical, and rowing machines are low-impact cardio and let you exercise your knees range-of-motion pretty effectively. Bodyweight exercises like squats and lunges and similar, done regularly, will also improve the muscles around the knee, which can help. Again, for some forms of arthritis this won't help or won't help as much, but for others (like me) it can be a life changer. The path I was on, I'd be unable to run or play soccer at this point (80% confidence in that statement, would've sought medical treatment by this point if I'd stayed on that path).
- brokenmachine 10y ago
  :( Can you swim? Might be somewhat similar with less impact. I love running but I'm dreading the time when my knees can't take it anymore.
huac 10y ago
It'd be better if they started with control groups of people who don't exercise, and then measured the impact of participating in a running regimen. Pretty cool findings anyways.
- 0xcde4c3db 10y ago
  Right. It's common for correlations with specific diet and exercise factors in observational studies to disappear when the same things are studied as interventions in randomized controlled trials.
cylinder 10y ago
Man, NYT seems to run a piece about exercise and health, especially mental health, and especially running, almost daily. We get it. Personally, I hate running. I like thinking.
- rconti 10y ago
  I find I think more while I'm running. Probably because running is so damn boring!
  - SmellyGeekBoy 10y ago
    Me too. I get to the finish line of a half marathon and wonder what I've been doing the past 2 hours because I've been so lost in thought!
    - rconti 10y ago
      appropriate username
- brokenmachine 10y ago
  Why can't you think while you run? I guess if you're really out of shape, running is so difficult that you can't think. I run trails, and when I run is the time I get the most thinking done! I listen to podcasts and music, and sometimes just listen to the wildlife around. It's definitely my most concentrated thinking time though.
gragas 10y ago
I hate how much the authors of this article imply causality. >There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering. Could it not be that people who have the willpower to run regularly also have the willpower to stay focused? >In essence, the runners seemed to have brains in which certain cognitive skills, including multitasking and concentration, were more finely honed than among the inactive men. "Honed" definitely implies that running hones those skills, when in fact having those very skills could be a confounding factor. All of that said, I have yet to see a compelling argument against running regularly.
- eutectic 10y ago
  There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.
  - theobold 10y ago
    What qualifies as "excessive", though? Excessive anything is harmful almost by definition.
    - klodolph 10y ago
      This comment replies to the wording of the parent comment, not the content. We know what the parent comment means.
      - notacoward 10y ago
        No, we don't. I'm not sure even the author has a clear definition of "excessive" in mind, so we might not know even if we were all telepathic. The validity or applicability of their complaints about running is very closely tied to that definition, so it's entirely reasonable to seek clarification.
justinator 10y ago
Related, How Neuroscientists Explain the Mind-Clearing Magic of Running http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/04/how-neuroscientists-explain-the-mind-clearing-magic-of-running.html http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/04/how-neuroscientists-exp...
jkingsbery 10y ago
As this described by the NYT (maybe the original paper describes it better?), there's all sorts of problems with this conclusion: - A very small sample size - Confounding factors: one group consists of collegiate runners (i.e., college students), and another consists of "young men" i.e., presumably men who didn't necessarily go to college. Even if both groups consisted entirely of college students, there might be other confounding factors that could explain the differences rather than running itself (eg: runners spend more time outside; runners' days are more structured; college runners probably drink fewer nights a week than average) - The control group "said that they had not exercised in the past year" - could it just be that exercise in some form improves brain functioning? I was a mediocre Division 3 cross country and track runner, so I feel like I'm qualified to say that while there are many benefits of running, improved brain function is not one of them.
- cortesoft 10y ago
  Right? There are no conclusions they can draw about running in particular, since they are basically comparing fit people to unfit people.
russellbeattie 10y ago
"There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering." That's also called "thinking". An unfocused, wandering mind is a creative mind. This article completely reinforces my general opinion of runners tending to be mindless automatons, obsessively rehashing their to-do list and daily schedule while out on their morning jog, before having their extra-foam soy half-caff latte with cinnamon and organic raw agave sweetener and heading out early to 'beat the traffic'. Einstein wasn't a jogger.
- hiddencost 10y ago
  I've had some of my most rambly mental explorations running. This probably isn't in my favor, but I've patented stuff I've come up with while running. Your hostility seems pretty clearly rooted in your own prejudices.
- theobold 10y ago
  And yet, Turing was.
  - logicallee 10y ago
    True, and a good argument for running, however using Turing and the effects on him of running as an example (it clearly led to his breakthrough scientific work as well as every other part of his life), it must be said that many people enjoy the company of women and would not be willing to become gay (from running) for a slight mental improvement. (this is a joke comment pointing out how silly this thread is being.)
- drvdevd 10y ago
  Personally, I walk to let my thoughts ramble. I run to run past my thoughts. In both cases it's both the journey and destination that counts, but in the case of running, it's a little bit more about the destination for me. I feel it in my whole body for the next 6-12 hours and it feels good. My mind also feels more focused as a side effect.
Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago
Intellectuals often take up cycling or running, notice the benefits and then claim cycling and running are great for the mind. Kind of makes me wonder if they'd ever exercised before. As long as I don't completely exhaust myself, I tend to feel much better after I exercise, which includes playing ball sports... I just don't do it nearly as often as I should!
- fian 10y ago
  Team sports require you to process a large stream of input information as a stream for a 1-2 hour window. In my experience (social league basketball, volleyball, soccer, mixed netball) I switch off subconscious (deep) thought processing and focus on handling the high volume of (shallow) inputs from reading other players movements, communicating audibly and feeling through touch/proprioception. Cycling and running (or hiking), especially solo and on quiet roads or trails does the opposite. You can process a much smaller amount of input information required for navigation and hazard avoidance in "autopilot" mode. This frees your mind to process your subconscious thoughts in a daydream like (meditative?) way. So to me, both activities are useful ways to modify my thought processes. Team sports let me switch off or de-prioritise my subconscious for a while. Cycling or running lets me work through a subconscious queue.
- pjc50 10y ago
  Often not, or only at school where exercise is a miserable, mandatory thing.
notacoward 10y ago
It might be significant that the study was on distance runners (though it's not clear what they mean by that). Road running definitely requires a lot more situational awareness and decision making than track running. Uneven roads or sidewalks require instant reaction, especiall with snow/ice in winter. Cars, bikes, walkers, dogs, etc. can come from all directions and must be accounted for. Following a route and pacing for uphills/downhills also requires at least a little bit of thought. Trail running is even more challenging in some of these areas, though less in others. Running around a track is comparatively simple. It would be interesting to see how much - if any - of these effects exist for that kind of running.
blt 10y ago
The first part of the article contrasts running against sports that stress hand-eye coordination and decision making. The author claims that the connection between those sports and overall cognitive performance is more obvious. But the scientific study only compare runners against sedentary people. We don't know how running compares to basketball, etc. on these metrics. The running/cognition correlation is presented as surprising, but it would be a lot less surprising if a stronger version of the same link existed for decision-based sports. The speculation about running->cognition causality should be kept to a minimum until there is data on other sports for comparison.
erd0s 10y ago
Is 11 people a really small sample size for a study like this?
- erd0s 10y ago
  Also, i don't understand it because I'm not a neuroscientist but are the brain networks they're talking about in the abstract of the research related to conscious thinking? I find these kind of articles so frustrating, the articles themselves imply these big dubious claims, then you try to read the research and you don't know what the fk they're talking about.
- elchief 10y ago
  Well, if it's real random and it's experimental vs observational, then it depends on how big an error you can tolerate. Counter-intuitive fact: the minimum sample size for a T-test is two...
mannykannot 10y ago
Orienteering is a way to combine running (or walking) with thinking.
- Numberwang 10y ago
  I've been running Orienteering for decades and love the sport. I have reflected on the demographic of the participants many times.
elchief 10y ago
Some things I've realized / hypothesized over the years: I like and am good at biking, swimming, running, and weight lifting because I'm poorly co-ordinated, so bad at other sports (that involve changing direction right/left quickly) I like and am good at biking, swimming, running, and weight lifting because I'm kind of socially awkward and you don't need to talk to other people to do those Regarding exercise and cognition: I was studying for the GMAT and training for a triathlon. If I did practice questions shortly after a workout, I did poorly compared to a no-workout-day, as I was tired. I think exercise helps long-term cognition, but impairs short-term cognition
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
croon 10y ago
Admittedly I skimmed through it with a preconceived notion, but the research seems to by convenience target endurance runners, but I don't see where it has to be specifically running, or endurance. Why not interval runners, bikers, swimmers, rowers, Tabata interval trainers, any aerobic training? Specifically since research I've read suggests that VO2 improvments is more efficient with interval training than with endurance training [*]. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26243014 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26243014
jurasource 10y ago
I'm a ultra distance runner and fairly regularly run for over 12 hours. One of the first things people normally ask is "don't you get bored", but honestly the concentration needed to maintain good form, eat, drink, not get lost, doesn't leave much room for much else. I've been running for over ten years, and I'd say it's only in the last year that I've realised how important that concentration is, to do it well that is, it's easy to trundle along allowing ones mind to wander...
douche 10y ago
I just can't do running, for the sake of running. I will grudgingly run up and down a basketball court, but at least there there is the promise of analyzing and exploiting the geometry of the court on the offensive or defensive end to do something interesting once you've chugged down the court. The exercise that I miss most, ironically, given how much I cussed about it as a kid, is sawing, splitting and stacking firewood. It can be almost meditative, and its fantastic for building real, functional strength.
devilsavocado 10y ago
I'm curious if the effects on the brain from running are the same as from meditation [0]. Any long distance runner will tell you that you can definitely get into a meditative-like state. Personally, I've noticed similarities in my mental state from meditation and running for 30+ minutes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/05/26/harvard-neuroscientist-meditation-not-only-reduces-stress-it-literally-changes-your-brain/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/05...
ultra-jeremyx 10y ago
A few years ago I got into MUT (mountain/ultra/trail) running and have been amazed by the mental health benefits it has had on my life. I have come to realize that it's because human beings are natural endurance athletes but the evolution of our minds has far outpaced our biology. Most people just don't use their bodies for what they were evolved for. For me, engaging in regular endurance activities led to great fitness, and more importantly, happiness. As a developer, I find that taking a mid-day break from coding to run for an hour or two in the mountains refreshes my mind and clarifies my thinking in the afternoon. I often end up solving coding problems when I stop thinking and focus on the moment in running, and then--BAM--out of nowhere a solution will pop into my head.

148 points by Dowwie 10y ago

trentmb 10y ago

I miss running.

cardamomo 10y ago
I feel your pain. Two running moments that stand out to me: (1) when I first got into a regular running rhythm and noticed how much clearer my thinking felt after runs, and (2) when I injured my foot and was out of commission for a few weeks and noticed how irritable and fidgety I felt. Running is addictive!
- jschwartzi 10y ago
  I both lift weights and run, and I've experienced similar irritability even after a 3 day layoff. After a week my muscles start to "itch" and the only thing that provides any relief is exercise.
- trentmb 10y ago
  Yeah. Went to a clinic because I couldn't put any weight on my left foot without collapsing. Referred to a podiatrist. "Peroneal tendonitis". Flat feet. My legs are like ><. Got custom molded inserts. My legs look like )( with them. Didn't realize the amount of everyday pain I was in 'til I used them. Doesn't really matter though. I've already developed arthritis in my knees and ankles at the age of 27, any sort of impact exercise is verboten. Thanks for letting me vent.
  - Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago
    I'm also 27. When I was about 11 my left knee collapsed and I was diagnosed with Osgood Schlatter syndrome - the "syndrome" part of the name makes it sound a genetic, I don't believe it strictly is - it's just when the tendon tears off your patella. Anyway, recovered from that with physio. Later, teenage years, I was also diagnosed with flat feet, needed orthotics. I don't wear them now, I probably should though as my ankles do get sore. This also lead to back problems that I went to the physio for when I was 19. When I was 17 I tore the ligament in my left ankle playing Rugby. That one hurt for ages whenever I ran or walked until last year where I tripped over in a car park and ended up on crutches because I'd torn it again. Think I might have torn it clear off, because it no longer burns when I run or walk. So that's a win! I recently started playing basketball again and broke my Scaphoid (left wrist) only 4 games in. It's nearly finished healing... I hope. I don't know how serious your arthritis is, but if it's manageable then you're almost certainly better off exercising than not - your body will only deteriorate more if you don't. That's not to say I exercise anywhere near as much as I should (just walking the dogs at the moment), however, at least personally I don't use injuries as an excuse not to exercise, if I don't it's purely because I'm being lazy. On the plus side, since I started to put on a bit of a gut my back pain has decreased because I've improved my posture by almost always tensing my core to suck in my belly ;) New year's resolution, more exercise!
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - trentmb 10y ago
      Thanks for the shaming brah
      - xyzzy_plugh 10y ago
        It's so unfortunate that so many people don't understand when young people are, effectively, disabled. A friend's parents stopped talking to him and shamed him because he applied for a handicap parking permit (doctor recommended). He can't walk much more than 100 feet without agonizing pain. He's 28. The father's words were something like "how will you feel when you are taking away that parking spot from an elderly person who really needs it?" I hope it gets better.
        trentmb 10y ago
        I feel like an ass now- I'm nowhere near as bad as your friend yet- it certainly hasn't hit my hips or back yet, my autonomy isn't affected, I don't need painkillers. For what it's worth, pass on my support to him- if only for selfish reasons; I see myself becoming like him in the near future.
        Jtsummers 10y ago
        NB: This may not apply to you, but here's my experience. I was about 225 lbs and had experienced (mild) arthritis in my knees, starting in my late-20s. Around age 32 I resolved to finally get in shape, the arthritis was, at this point, mild-to-moderate, still in the knees (now in the hands). Losing the weight and regular exercise (in my case running, which I'd been doing as part of soccer on the field, but not for distance until this point) greatly improved my arthritis symptoms. The evenings after a run, my knees felt fantastic. Weeks where I skipped, the symptoms returned (no worse than before, just back to "normal"). Once the weight was lost, however, the symptoms almost completely went away. This is very much a YMMV situation, but it's something to consider. Exercising the full range-of-motion of the joint + weight loss can help a lot, even if it is just delaying the inevitable. I'll happily accept 5-20 years of improved mobility even if I end up immobilized by this like a good chunk of my ancestors. The exercise needn't be running. Cycling, elliptical, and rowing machines are low-impact cardio and let you exercise your knees range-of-motion pretty effectively. Bodyweight exercises like squats and lunges and similar, done regularly, will also improve the muscles around the knee, which can help. Again, for some forms of arthritis this won't help or won't help as much, but for others (like me) it can be a life changer. The path I was on, I'd be unable to run or play soccer at this point (80% confidence in that statement, would've sought medical treatment by this point if I'd stayed on that path).
brokenmachine 10y ago
:( Can you swim? Might be somewhat similar with less impact. I love running but I'm dreading the time when my knees can't take it anymore.

huac 10y ago

It'd be better if they started with control groups of people who don't exercise, and then measured the impact of participating in a running regimen. Pretty cool findings anyways.

0xcde4c3db 10y ago
Right. It's common for correlations with specific diet and exercise factors in observational studies to disappear when the same things are studied as interventions in randomized controlled trials.

cylinder 10y ago

Man, NYT seems to run a piece about exercise and health, especially mental health, and especially running, almost daily. We get it. Personally, I hate running. I like thinking.

rconti 10y ago
I find I think more while I'm running. Probably because running is so damn boring!
- SmellyGeekBoy 10y ago
  Me too. I get to the finish line of a half marathon and wonder what I've been doing the past 2 hours because I've been so lost in thought!
  - rconti 10y ago
    appropriate username
brokenmachine 10y ago
Why can't you think while you run? I guess if you're really out of shape, running is so difficult that you can't think. I run trails, and when I run is the time I get the most thinking done! I listen to podcasts and music, and sometimes just listen to the wildlife around. It's definitely my most concentrated thinking time though.

gragas 10y ago

I hate how much the authors of this article imply causality. >There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering. Could it not be that people who have the willpower to run regularly also have the willpower to stay focused? >In essence, the runners seemed to have brains in which certain cognitive skills, including multitasking and concentration, were more finely honed than among the inactive men. "Honed" definitely implies that running hones those skills, when in fact having those very skills could be a confounding factor. All of that said, I have yet to see a compelling argument against running regularly.

eutectic 10y ago
There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.
- theobold 10y ago
  What qualifies as "excessive", though? Excessive anything is harmful almost by definition.
  - klodolph 10y ago
    This comment replies to the wording of the parent comment, not the content. We know what the parent comment means.
    - notacoward 10y ago
      No, we don't. I'm not sure even the author has a clear definition of "excessive" in mind, so we might not know even if we were all telepathic. The validity or applicability of their complaints about running is very closely tied to that definition, so it's entirely reasonable to seek clarification.

justinator 10y ago

Related, How Neuroscientists Explain the Mind-Clearing Magic of Running http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/04/how-neuroscientists-explain-the-mind-clearing-magic-of-running.html http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/04/how-neuroscientists-exp...

jkingsbery 10y ago

As this described by the NYT (maybe the original paper describes it better?), there's all sorts of problems with this conclusion: - A very small sample size - Confounding factors: one group consists of collegiate runners (i.e., college students), and another consists of "young men" i.e., presumably men who didn't necessarily go to college. Even if both groups consisted entirely of college students, there might be other confounding factors that could explain the differences rather than running itself (eg: runners spend more time outside; runners' days are more structured; college runners probably drink fewer nights a week than average) - The control group "said that they had not exercised in the past year" - could it just be that exercise in some form improves brain functioning? I was a mediocre Division 3 cross country and track runner, so I feel like I'm qualified to say that while there are many benefits of running, improved brain function is not one of them.

cortesoft 10y ago
Right? There are no conclusions they can draw about running in particular, since they are basically comparing fit people to unfit people.

russellbeattie 10y ago

"There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering." That's also called "thinking". An unfocused, wandering mind is a creative mind. This article completely reinforces my general opinion of runners tending to be mindless automatons, obsessively rehashing their to-do list and daily schedule while out on their morning jog, before having their extra-foam soy half-caff latte with cinnamon and organic raw agave sweetener and heading out early to 'beat the traffic'. Einstein wasn't a jogger.

hiddencost 10y ago
I've had some of my most rambly mental explorations running. This probably isn't in my favor, but I've patented stuff I've come up with while running. Your hostility seems pretty clearly rooted in your own prejudices.
theobold 10y ago
And yet, Turing was.
- logicallee 10y ago
  True, and a good argument for running, however using Turing and the effects on him of running as an example (it clearly led to his breakthrough scientific work as well as every other part of his life), it must be said that many people enjoy the company of women and would not be willing to become gay (from running) for a slight mental improvement. (this is a joke comment pointing out how silly this thread is being.)
drvdevd 10y ago
Personally, I walk to let my thoughts ramble. I run to run past my thoughts. In both cases it's both the journey and destination that counts, but in the case of running, it's a little bit more about the destination for me. I feel it in my whole body for the next 6-12 hours and it feels good. My mind also feels more focused as a side effect.

Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago

Intellectuals often take up cycling or running, notice the benefits and then claim cycling and running are great for the mind. Kind of makes me wonder if they'd ever exercised before. As long as I don't completely exhaust myself, I tend to feel much better after I exercise, which includes playing ball sports... I just don't do it nearly as often as I should!

fian 10y ago
Team sports require you to process a large stream of input information as a stream for a 1-2 hour window. In my experience (social league basketball, volleyball, soccer, mixed netball) I switch off subconscious (deep) thought processing and focus on handling the high volume of (shallow) inputs from reading other players movements, communicating audibly and feeling through touch/proprioception. Cycling and running (or hiking), especially solo and on quiet roads or trails does the opposite. You can process a much smaller amount of input information required for navigation and hazard avoidance in "autopilot" mode. This frees your mind to process your subconscious thoughts in a daydream like (meditative?) way. So to me, both activities are useful ways to modify my thought processes. Team sports let me switch off or de-prioritise my subconscious for a while. Cycling or running lets me work through a subconscious queue.
pjc50 10y ago
Often not, or only at school where exercise is a miserable, mandatory thing.

notacoward 10y ago

It might be significant that the study was on distance runners (though it's not clear what they mean by that). Road running definitely requires a lot more situational awareness and decision making than track running. Uneven roads or sidewalks require instant reaction, especiall with snow/ice in winter. Cars, bikes, walkers, dogs, etc. can come from all directions and must be accounted for. Following a route and pacing for uphills/downhills also requires at least a little bit of thought. Trail running is even more challenging in some of these areas, though less in others. Running around a track is comparatively simple. It would be interesting to see how much - if any - of these effects exist for that kind of running.

blt 10y ago

The first part of the article contrasts running against sports that stress hand-eye coordination and decision making. The author claims that the connection between those sports and overall cognitive performance is more obvious. But the scientific study only compare runners against sedentary people. We don't know how running compares to basketball, etc. on these metrics. The running/cognition correlation is presented as surprising, but it would be a lot less surprising if a stronger version of the same link existed for decision-based sports. The speculation about running->cognition causality should be kept to a minimum until there is data on other sports for comparison.

erd0s 10y ago

Is 11 people a really small sample size for a study like this?

erd0s 10y ago
Also, i don't understand it because I'm not a neuroscientist but are the brain networks they're talking about in the abstract of the research related to conscious thinking? I find these kind of articles so frustrating, the articles themselves imply these big dubious claims, then you try to read the research and you don't know what the fk they're talking about.
elchief 10y ago
Well, if it's real random and it's experimental vs observational, then it depends on how big an error you can tolerate. Counter-intuitive fact: the minimum sample size for a T-test is two...

mannykannot 10y ago

Orienteering is a way to combine running (or walking) with thinking.

Numberwang 10y ago
I've been running Orienteering for decades and love the sport. I have reflected on the demographic of the participants many times.

elchief 10y ago

Some things I've realized / hypothesized over the years: I like and am good at biking, swimming, running, and weight lifting because I'm poorly co-ordinated, so bad at other sports (that involve changing direction right/left quickly) I like and am good at biking, swimming, running, and weight lifting because I'm kind of socially awkward and you don't need to talk to other people to do those Regarding exercise and cognition: I was studying for the GMAT and training for a triathlon. If I did practice questions shortly after a workout, I did poorly compared to a no-workout-day, as I was tired. I think exercise helps long-term cognition, but impairs short-term cognition

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croon 10y ago

Admittedly I skimmed through it with a preconceived notion, but the research seems to by convenience target endurance runners, but I don't see where it has to be specifically running, or endurance. Why not interval runners, bikers, swimmers, rowers, Tabata interval trainers, any aerobic training? Specifically since research I've read suggests that VO2 improvments is more efficient with interval training than with endurance training [*]. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26243014 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26243014

jurasource 10y ago

I'm a ultra distance runner and fairly regularly run for over 12 hours. One of the first things people normally ask is "don't you get bored", but honestly the concentration needed to maintain good form, eat, drink, not get lost, doesn't leave much room for much else. I've been running for over ten years, and I'd say it's only in the last year that I've realised how important that concentration is, to do it well that is, it's easy to trundle along allowing ones mind to wander...

douche 10y ago

I just can't do running, for the sake of running. I will grudgingly run up and down a basketball court, but at least there there is the promise of analyzing and exploiting the geometry of the court on the offensive or defensive end to do something interesting once you've chugged down the court. The exercise that I miss most, ironically, given how much I cussed about it as a kid, is sawing, splitting and stacking firewood. It can be almost meditative, and its fantastic for building real, functional strength.

devilsavocado 10y ago

I'm curious if the effects on the brain from running are the same as from meditation [0]. Any long distance runner will tell you that you can definitely get into a meditative-like state. Personally, I've noticed similarities in my mental state from meditation and running for 30+ minutes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/05/26/harvard-neuroscientist-meditation-not-only-reduces-stress-it-literally-changes-your-brain/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/05...

ultra-jeremyx 10y ago

A few years ago I got into MUT (mountain/ultra/trail) running and have been amazed by the mental health benefits it has had on my life. I have come to realize that it's because human beings are natural endurance athletes but the evolution of our minds has far outpaced our biology. Most people just don't use their bodies for what they were evolved for. For me, engaging in regular endurance activities led to great fitness, and more importantly, happiness. As a developer, I find that taking a mid-day break from coding to run for an hour or two in the mountains refreshes my mind and clarifies my thinking in the afternoon. I often end up solving coding problems when I stop thinking and focus on the moment in running, and then--BAM--out of nowhere a solution will pop into my head.