4 ms·

If you actually go poke around the Internet you will see that people have tons of problems with Windows 10 drivers. Three examples I and people I know encounter

If you actually go poke around the Internet you will see that people have tons of problems with Windows 10 drivers. Three examples I and people I know encountered: 1)crashing SSD drivers (the "fix" for that is to disable some power management settings for an SSD "sleep mode" which are not visible by default so you need some registry poking) 2)problems with wireless modems (in Thinkpads, fix is to disable and enable the device from time to time, of course it says the device is working correctly all the time which doesn't help) 3)crashes after updating from Windows 7, apparently some permissions don't update correctly and part of the system assumes it should have some permissions but it doesn't and the system crash (fix for that is apparently doing a clean install), this is bad because it doesn't even write anything to event log for some time before the crash You can easily find tons of people talking about those problems if you google. That are only driver/system problems, there is also huge mess with forced updates which you don't have enough control over. For example if Windows 10 decides to update you can't shut down the system anymore so if you need the computer now and it freezes you need to wait till updates complete (it's easy to imagine how it's not acceptable when you want to do a presentation, a quick fix or react to something before leaving home). Windows is 10 is huge mess and people having problems with it are definitely not outliers.

ams6110 10y ago
And you definitely do not want the average consumer user trying to download drivers because they will inevitably find them on some shady downloadz site and end up ransomed or worse.
Thimothy 10y ago
If you poke the internet, you will find people having tons of problems with virtually EVERYTHING, hell, I'd bet that one of the bigger uses of the internet is searching for every kind of solutions. The notion that the number one OS used by non-technically minded people, the OS that supports the greatest amount of HW, has the loudest crowd of people looking for help is perfectly understandable and doesn't signal anything by itself. Mayor OS upgrades are painful, no matter the flavor, and it totally looks like Microsoft has made some mayor blunders with this one, but if I wanted to know whether this one is specially abominable, I'd probably pay more attention to what sysadmins have to say about it, and not some randos in the internet.
pdimitar 10y ago
You forget that Windows is THE biggest and most used non-technical-users-oriented OS in the world. I am pretty convinced that at least 80% of what you're pointing at is not Microsoft's fault. That's like blaming the soil for not killing parasites on the veggies you grow in your backyard. As for the forced updates -- what would you have them do? Most of the virus and system-level exploit problems on XP and 7 stem from the fact that some people go out of their way to NEVER update their OS. Again, what would you do if you were MS? You can't rely on any random grandma to be update-conscious. Most people shrug an unplanned restart and forget about it in 5 minutes. IMO the compromise if you don't pay for a high-quality user-grade OS to not have control over the update times is fair. If you want to have control, you can pay. I see both sides of the argument and I was an MS hater years and years in the past. But IMO they made the right call this time. There simply is no universal win situation for MS when we talk about such a hugely adopted product like theirs. They did well.
- bluecalm 10y ago
  >>As for the forced updates -- what would you have them do? The same thing they do on Windows server: display huge red banner: "you need to update". Hell, make the banner bigger and more flashing every time. Make it emit sounds if I don't update for a few days. Just don't make me update right now because right now might be critical time for me. It's really is a no-brainer. Forced updates policy is a disaster. The solution is really simple as well: nudge more and more persistently. >> You can't rely on any random grandma to be update-conscious Even a grandma is going to notice ever growing red banner with a button "ok, update now".
  - pdimitar 10y ago
    I don't think both of us have solid enough knowledge in user/consumer psychology but FWIW, I think this would incite a much more violent reaction. Emit a sound, you say? I can mute everything with a press of two-keys combo in half a second. Banner? People go out of their way to silence the Windows 10 updates in general. People who weren't technical decide to become technical just to "get back at Microsoft". Look it up, it's all out there in the internet for the future generations to collectively shake their heads in shame. So you know, if Homo Sapiens wasn't what it was you would actually be right. But facts and history aren't on your side I am afraid. Finally, I think Microsoft had to introduce at least one small leverage on the users to tempt/strongarm them to actually buy the higher licenses of Windows 10 where you can control the update times. Windows is the most widespread consumer OS. I don't think it's so villainous that they give you 95% for free and ask for money if you want the other 5%.

ams6110 10y ago

And you definitely do not want the average consumer user trying to download drivers because they will inevitably find them on some shady downloadz site and end up ransomed or worse.

Thimothy 10y ago

If you poke the internet, you will find people having tons of problems with virtually EVERYTHING, hell, I'd bet that one of the bigger uses of the internet is searching for every kind of solutions. The notion that the number one OS used by non-technically minded people, the OS that supports the greatest amount of HW, has the loudest crowd of people looking for help is perfectly understandable and doesn't signal anything by itself. Mayor OS upgrades are painful, no matter the flavor, and it totally looks like Microsoft has made some mayor blunders with this one, but if I wanted to know whether this one is specially abominable, I'd probably pay more attention to what sysadmins have to say about it, and not some randos in the internet.

pdimitar 10y ago

You forget that Windows is THE biggest and most used non-technical-users-oriented OS in the world. I am pretty convinced that at least 80% of what you're pointing at is not Microsoft's fault. That's like blaming the soil for not killing parasites on the veggies you grow in your backyard. As for the forced updates -- what would you have them do? Most of the virus and system-level exploit problems on XP and 7 stem from the fact that some people go out of their way to NEVER update their OS. Again, what would you do if you were MS? You can't rely on any random grandma to be update-conscious. Most people shrug an unplanned restart and forget about it in 5 minutes. IMO the compromise if you don't pay for a high-quality user-grade OS to not have control over the update times is fair. If you want to have control, you can pay. I see both sides of the argument and I was an MS hater years and years in the past. But IMO they made the right call this time. There simply is no universal win situation for MS when we talk about such a hugely adopted product like theirs. They did well.

bluecalm 10y ago
>>As for the forced updates -- what would you have them do? The same thing they do on Windows server: display huge red banner: "you need to update". Hell, make the banner bigger and more flashing every time. Make it emit sounds if I don't update for a few days. Just don't make me update right now because right now might be critical time for me. It's really is a no-brainer. Forced updates policy is a disaster. The solution is really simple as well: nudge more and more persistently. >> You can't rely on any random grandma to be update-conscious Even a grandma is going to notice ever growing red banner with a button "ok, update now".
- pdimitar 10y ago
  I don't think both of us have solid enough knowledge in user/consumer psychology but FWIW, I think this would incite a much more violent reaction. Emit a sound, you say? I can mute everything with a press of two-keys combo in half a second. Banner? People go out of their way to silence the Windows 10 updates in general. People who weren't technical decide to become technical just to "get back at Microsoft". Look it up, it's all out there in the internet for the future generations to collectively shake their heads in shame. So you know, if Homo Sapiens wasn't what it was you would actually be right. But facts and history aren't on your side I am afraid. Finally, I think Microsoft had to introduce at least one small leverage on the users to tempt/strongarm them to actually buy the higher licenses of Windows 10 where you can control the update times. Windows is the most widespread consumer OS. I don't think it's so villainous that they give you 95% for free and ask for money if you want the other 5%.