4 ms·

During the press event it was suggested the boost mode would operate primarily off of temperature, taking into account high-end cooling setups. Seemed interesti

by rl3 10y ago

During the press event it was suggested the boost mode would operate primarily off of temperature, taking into account high-end cooling setups. Seemed interesting, if not innovative. As far as I'm aware, existing boost modes tend to be static ranges. I'd really like to see Ryzen meet or exceed Intel i7-6700K/7700K single-core performance using boost mode clocks with a reasonable cooling setup. That would eliminate any reason whatsoever to choose Intel for gaming until their 10nm product arrives Q3 2017.

trome 10y ago
Yeah, I wouldn't set your hopes that high, if that were the case Intel has 4 to 5 generations of silicon already prepped that they could start churning out in volume within 3 months. Comparatively, AMD has been building chips to order as of late, since they do not have the money to build a bunch of chips that may or may not sell, so your looking at a 3 to 4 month delay before you can get a new chip like Ryzen after announcement. The cache arrangement (see pic halfway down) and better branch prediction are interesting though, cache has always been a space where Intel has been able to use way less transistors to store the same amount of data. http://semiaccurate.com/2016/12/13/amds-zen-becomes-ryzen/ http://semiaccurate.com/2016/12/13/amds-zen-becomes-ryzen/
- rl3 10y ago
  >... if that were the case Intel has 4 to 5 generations of silicon already prepped that they could start churning out in volume within 3 months. Can you elaborate? I'm fairly certain Intel deviating from their existing roadmap to such a degree and on such short notice would be extremely difficult at best.
  - trome 10y ago
    After the Pentium 4 debacle, Intel Israel came up with the Core micro-architecture to replace it. Since then, Intel has built up a 4 to 5 year buffer of developed silicon so that if any generation or two is worse than their competitors, they won't be caught flat footed & have to pay contra-revenue to incentivize manufacturers to use their chips. Most notably this can be seen in review samples of chips sent out, where AMD and Qualcomm will send out chips dated as being made shortly before being sent per the packaging, Intel will send out chips that are dated 4 to 5 years old, as they are from the first or second run of silicon that Intel did with that chip design.
    - sitkack 10y ago
      Isn't that a sign of really really poor competition?
      - trome 10y ago
        It is, hence why they got fined in the EU recently. That being said, so long as AMD & Via are still alive and producing x86-64 chips, they'll avoid the brunt of anti-competitive regulations.
    - russell_h 10y ago
      I'm fairly certain this isn't true, do you have any references?
    - rl3 10y ago
      >Intel will send out chips that are dated 4 to 5 years old, as they are from the first or second run of silicon that Intel did with that chip design. Fabrication process advancements (i.e. die shrinks) in that time span are enough to rule out what you said with near complete certainty—let alone the notion Intel is somehow shelving architectures for 4-5 years at a time. Architectures may be developed over those spans, sure—but not shelved for that long.
      - trome 10y ago
        I'm not saying that they have 4 to 5 full micro-architectures shelved (that'd be insane), but from talking to Intel Oregon people they do keep a deep stock that will buy them a few years. Think incremental improvements like you see from Intel every year, not 20% or 30% performance improvements.
- michaelmrose 10y ago
  Not trying to be a jerk but this sounds like a huge misunderstanding of reality. I had understood that new generations of cpu to be years from beginning of development to store shelves.
CoolGuySteve 10y ago
NVidia Pascal is doing this as well. It's pretty cool, you can open up a graphics stress test and watch it scale down as it heats up over time.
undersuit 10y ago
That little bit reminded me of the anecdote of a asynchronous CPU performing slower when a cup of hot coffee was placed on it. We're slowly power gating our way to clockless CPUs.
- witty_username 10y ago
  Well, CPUs (at least Intel ones) underclock if the temperature is high.
  - Already__Taken 10y ago
    Which has been wonderful for our computer lab with failing CPU fans. Annoying? yes. Day ruiner, not at all.
snarf 10y ago
Intel desktop 10nm won't actually arrive until late 2018/early 2019 with Icelake. Due to yield issues, those first 10nm Cannonlake parts are only for low power/mobile applications. To compensate, they are adding another 14nm iteration called Coffee Lake with up to 6 cores.

by rl3 10y ago

trome 10y ago

Yeah, I wouldn't set your hopes that high, if that were the case Intel has 4 to 5 generations of silicon already prepped that they could start churning out in volume within 3 months. Comparatively, AMD has been building chips to order as of late, since they do not have the money to build a bunch of chips that may or may not sell, so your looking at a 3 to 4 month delay before you can get a new chip like Ryzen after announcement. The cache arrangement (see pic halfway down) and better branch prediction are interesting though, cache has always been a space where Intel has been able to use way less transistors to store the same amount of data. http://semiaccurate.com/2016/12/13/amds-zen-becomes-ryzen/ http://semiaccurate.com/2016/12/13/amds-zen-becomes-ryzen/

rl3 10y ago
>... if that were the case Intel has 4 to 5 generations of silicon already prepped that they could start churning out in volume within 3 months. Can you elaborate? I'm fairly certain Intel deviating from their existing roadmap to such a degree and on such short notice would be extremely difficult at best.
- trome 10y ago
  After the Pentium 4 debacle, Intel Israel came up with the Core micro-architecture to replace it. Since then, Intel has built up a 4 to 5 year buffer of developed silicon so that if any generation or two is worse than their competitors, they won't be caught flat footed & have to pay contra-revenue to incentivize manufacturers to use their chips. Most notably this can be seen in review samples of chips sent out, where AMD and Qualcomm will send out chips dated as being made shortly before being sent per the packaging, Intel will send out chips that are dated 4 to 5 years old, as they are from the first or second run of silicon that Intel did with that chip design.
  - sitkack 10y ago
    Isn't that a sign of really really poor competition?
    - trome 10y ago
      It is, hence why they got fined in the EU recently. That being said, so long as AMD & Via are still alive and producing x86-64 chips, they'll avoid the brunt of anti-competitive regulations.
  - russell_h 10y ago
    I'm fairly certain this isn't true, do you have any references?
  - rl3 10y ago
    >Intel will send out chips that are dated 4 to 5 years old, as they are from the first or second run of silicon that Intel did with that chip design. Fabrication process advancements (i.e. die shrinks) in that time span are enough to rule out what you said with near complete certainty—let alone the notion Intel is somehow shelving architectures for 4-5 years at a time. Architectures may be developed over those spans, sure—but not shelved for that long.
    - trome 10y ago
      I'm not saying that they have 4 to 5 full micro-architectures shelved (that'd be insane), but from talking to Intel Oregon people they do keep a deep stock that will buy them a few years. Think incremental improvements like you see from Intel every year, not 20% or 30% performance improvements.
michaelmrose 10y ago
Not trying to be a jerk but this sounds like a huge misunderstanding of reality. I had understood that new generations of cpu to be years from beginning of development to store shelves.

CoolGuySteve 10y ago

NVidia Pascal is doing this as well. It's pretty cool, you can open up a graphics stress test and watch it scale down as it heats up over time.

undersuit 10y ago

That little bit reminded me of the anecdote of a asynchronous CPU performing slower when a cup of hot coffee was placed on it. We're slowly power gating our way to clockless CPUs.

witty_username 10y ago
Well, CPUs (at least Intel ones) underclock if the temperature is high.
- Already__Taken 10y ago
  Which has been wonderful for our computer lab with failing CPU fans. Annoying? yes. Day ruiner, not at all.

snarf 10y ago

Intel desktop 10nm won't actually arrive until late 2018/early 2019 with Icelake. Due to yield issues, those first 10nm Cannonlake parts are only for low power/mobile applications. To compensate, they are adding another 14nm iteration called Coffee Lake with up to 6 cores.