16 ms·

There's marketing copy, and then there's throw-up-a-little-in-your-mouth marketing copy. This is the latter.

by 1_2__3 10y ago

Avshalom 10y ago
Right, this isn't a world class entry into a nascent market. This is a pair of fucking headphones. A pair of headphones a month later than they should be that look exactly like their old headphones
- cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
  Maybe you missed something but I guess this is why you guys are so angry about this. Because it IS an entry into a nascent market. Apple sees this as a new IO device, not a "pair of fucking headphones". Take a look at the specs
  - Skunkleton 10y ago
    How is it anything more than a wireless version of the headphones they have been bundling for years?
    - gambiting 10y ago
      It's like calling a Tesla "an electric version of the same cars that were on the road for decades". Each headphone has a new chip that could probably run a whole smartphone few years ago - but I mean, if the fact that they are wireless is not impressive, then I don't think we can convince you.
      - Amezarak 10y ago
        He's probably not impressed by the fact they're wireless because wireless headphones aren't new. I mean, even stodgy grumps like me have a pair that works well and cost $20. Wireless headphones just aren't impressive technology in December 2016. They've been done. Again and again. This isn't a Tesla situation by any means. Apple might have executed particularly well, but I see his point.
        MBCook 10y ago
        Wireless headphones aren't new. Wireless headphones at that size/feature set/price point seem to be. The only comparable thing I know if is Samsung reportedly had some similar but they only had like 90m of battery life.
        brazzledazzle 10y ago
        I'm curious how well the battery life claims hold up. It's impressive but sometimes the real world battery life doesn't measure up. The new MacBook Pros are a good example of this (even if the current battery life is temporary and may be fixed by OS updates).
        MBCook 10y ago
        Apple tends to be highly accurate on battery life measurements. If they 5 hours playing music I believe them. The problem with the MBP is its 10 hours of a 'light workload'. And it meets that. But a HEAVY workload may be 4 hours and they don't advertise that. I don't remember reviewers saying anything bad about battery life on the AirPods back in October.
        monkmartinez 10y ago
        Eh, you said it... YOU believe them. A lot of people here don't anymore. Let's wait to see what real world use looks like. I mean, if you take the emoji touch bar at face value it's the coolest thing since sliced bread. However, real world use indicates that it might not be as useful as Apple wants it to be.
        MBCook 10y ago
        I think you misunderstood me. What I said is that Apple's numbers are highly accurate FOR WHAT THEY TESTED. The problem here is that Apple hasn't given numbers about what it's like under heavy load. Or really any load it all. If you stick to doing the kind of things Apple does in their battery life test you WILL get what they say. Unfortunately as we seem to be finding out if you go outside of that you're screwed. Obviously harder workloads always hit the computer more, but this year the delta seems much much higher. They are cherry picking tests that make their battery life look reasonable. I should also note that this is not the first time Apple did this. The quoted battery life on the iPhone 7 is basically the same as before, but they made a slight change to the wording. This year there tests are all with wireless headphones. This is likely because it's always been down that using the speaker on an iPhone to listen to music will lower your battery life pretty significantly, and now that the new iPhone 7 has a double speaker arrangement it's likely an even bigger effect than before. Apples not lying like so many PC makers used to do, they're playing lawyer games and choosing their words incredibly carefully. This is not a good turn. Apple giving real life accurate battery estimates used to be one of the things that put them above PC makers in my mind. If they're going to start redefining the workload to doing nothing on your computer... why bother?
      - hueving 10y ago
        Are you seriously suggesting these are the first wireless headphones?
        madeofpalk 10y ago
        No one is suggesting that. There are not many wireless earbuds in this form-factor / category.
        nilkn 10y ago
        Honest question: can you point me to some other earbuds of the same size that are totally wireless (not even a bridging wire) and that also include a microphone, etc.? The AirPods honestly do seem like a somewhat unique entry into the market to me, but it's such a crowded market that I could have easily missed a competitor somewhere. That said, the lack of any sort of wiring is actually a negative to me, because that's primarily what makes it seem like these will be so easy to lose.
        stonogo 10y ago
        The Bragi Dash and the Samsung Gear Icon X both do this, and also include fitness tracking functionality. The Samsung ones can even be loaded with music and cache your fitness data so you don't need a phone with you.
        Terretta 10y ago
        Bragi Dash: $249.99 after $50 off https://www.amazon.com/Bragi-Truly-Wireless-Smart-Earphones/dp/B01BHAU6QO https://www.amazon.com/Bragi-Truly-Wireless-Smart-Earphones/...
        FireBeyond 10y ago
        I think this is hilarious, even as someone who owns multiple Apple devices. "This is revolutionary. Nothing else does anything like this." "These do." "Well they cost more!", or "doesn't look as cool". Moving goalposts. And eh, I realize that Apple almost never goes below MSRP/list, but don't act like the "after $50 off" is some special promotion. It's not a rebate, even an instant one, just 'cheaper than list'.
      - Skunkleton 10y ago
        I was responding to this line by the parent commenter. > Because it IS an entry into a nascent market. Apple sees this as a new IO device, not a "pair of fucking headphones". It really is just a pair of headphones. This isn't a new market.
    - cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
      For starters, it has a CPU. Also it has an accelerometer. Also it has a microphone. Hope this answers your question.
  - bhauer 10y ago
    I can't speak for the other guys above, but I must have missed something. I am baffled why this particular set of wireless headphones has received as much press as it has. It seems so overblown that I have to wonder if people with iPhone 7s have actually been refusing to use existing wireless headphones because they are actually waiting for these. I've had a set of $25 Motorola wireless (Bluetooth) headphones that I use on my daily walking commute to and from work for many years. They work and sound great. They double as a wireless microphone and playback controls. I charge them every day via a USB cable. Woohoo. I can't see anything specs-wise with the Apple headphones that is interesting. Auto-pause? Okay, cool, but I can press the pause button on my Bluetooth headphones from 2010. Switching between devices? I can enable or disable Bluetooth on my devices, I guess, if I had wanted to use the headphones with more than my phone (though I do not want that). These new features seem incremental at best. The clamor for these—and the fact that their availability is a high-ranking news item on HN—seems to suggest I am missing something very fundamental. And yet, it feels that I am not. These are wireless headphones with a couple incremental features and an Apple logo.
    - j2bax 10y ago
      Can you provide a link to your headphones so I can see if they are something I'd be at all interested in?
      - bhauer 10y ago
        Motorola S305: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BH3I9U https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BH3I9U They're from ~2009 or thereabouts. Traditional headphone form factor. Works great for my use case (pedestrian commutes to and from the office).
        j2bax 10y ago
        I had a pair of wired Sony's wayyyyy back in the day in this wrap around ear/neck band form factor that I really loved when I was a kid. Lately though, I find anything that covers my ear too warm and uncomfortable. This is why I'm excited about the AirPods. I wouldn't really classify these Motorola's as truly wireless because of the connecting band.
- j2bax 10y ago
  Actually it is a bit more than "a pair of fucking headphones". As someone who spends a lot of time throughout the day listening to music, and finds Apple's Earpods to be some of the most comfortable nice sounding headphones I have owned, I'm rather excited about some innovation being done around this space. A few features that make them new/innovative: • Smart switching between multiple devices logged into iCloud. You need only pair with one of your iCloud devices and the rest will auto pair. • Auto-pause when removed from ears. • Auto-mono when only one is in your ear. • Carrying case that charges them rapidly and keeps them safe in your pocket. Edit: I said AirPods when I meant EarPods (the current wired ones). I don't currently have the AirPods. Edit 2: Another reason I'm excited about these: I absolutely abhor talking on the phone (like holding the phone up to my ear) and find single ear bluetooth devices to be lame in both function and appearance. I might be a smidge hard of hearing, so I much prefer to have both ears in on the action. I've tried a handful of Bluetooth headsets in the past, and they've all left me seriously wanting. Connectivity isn't consistent. Audio quality isn't great. If something doesn't just work like my wired headphones, I'm not going to switch. If these turn out to have the same issues, I'll gladly report how inaccurate Apple's marketing was and how disappointed I am.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    Carrying case - Plantronics and others would like to discuss "new/innovative": http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend-case http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend-case (I know that this product is not specifically music-oriented, but the operation principle is there still).
    - Terretta 10y ago
      I own that. It's not these.
    - npunt 10y ago
      Like with most things Apple, they don't necessarily create the first product in a space, but they define the category by refinement of user experience and inventing the necessary tech to support that. This Plantronics case isn't that great. You have to open it with two hands in front of you, and carefully place the awkwardly shaped headset in. You probably have to look at it while doing so. It's rather large, and the clear plastic cover looks like it can break pretty easily. It's also only one ear, and it's a $30 accessory. The AirPods can be opened one-handed while in your pocket, and you can place them in without looking. They're also smaller, the case looks quite a bit more durable, and they work with the charger you already have as an iPhone user (lightning). The AirPods and case were designed with a broader UX scope - the entire user experience, from opening to listening to putting away - as one unified product. The process that most hardware teams typically take is more narrowly focused on the core product hardware, rather than the entire scope of its use. If Plantronics had designed their headset with a broader UX scope in mind, they probably would have designed the headset itself differently, because its awkwardly shaped and hard to store. Instead I imagine they optimized the headset design for solely when its on-ear, and then asked how they could make a case for that shape. Such are the little differences that distinguish between regular products and category-defining ones (see also: iPod with iTunes).
- madeofpalk 10y ago
  > A pair of headphones a month later than they should be that look exactly like their old headphones ??? Maybe we have different standards on what 'look different' should be, but these are functionally and design-wise worlds apart from their existing headphones.
- coldtea 10y ago
  A pair of "fucking headphones" with a custom designed BT/audio processing chip that does lots of interesting things.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  > This is a pair of fucking headphones. I'm not sure if you have a bias against Apple or not but you're distilling your adjectives down to the simplest level in order to attack them. I do not believe that is a fair assessment. The AirPods include some interesting UX changes not typically seen (open case to connect, etc) and while some abilities have been done before (the tiny ear buds, the recharging case, etc) it also has some interesting aspects with voice commands and gestures. Yes I wouldn't necessarily call them world class but a "pair of fucking headphones" seems possibly even more inaccurate to me.
  - baddox 10y ago
    That's important to notice. Just adding "fucking" in front of what something is isn't a very good argument. You can do it to anything that people love or consider to be great. The Beatles is just a fucking band. Tesla just makes fucking electric cars. A cure for cancer is just a fucking medical discovery.
    - Avshalom 10y ago
      adding "magical" in front of everything isn't a good argument either. I rise to the level of my competition.
- stuaxo 10y ago
  Sort of like earrings you might see worn in star trek.
capkutay 10y ago
Keep in mind we're not really the audience for their copy. There's always some subliminal reason companies advertise the way they do. But I do agree it's kind of corny...
baddox 10y ago
I didn't throw up in my mouth, so that part seems to be subjective.

There's marketing copy, and then there's throw-up-a-little-in-your-mouth marketing copy. This is the latter.

by 1_2__3 10y ago

There's marketing copy, and then there's throw-up-a-little-in-your-mouth marketing copy. This is the latter.

Right, this isn't a world class entry into a nascent market. This is a pair of fucking headphones. A pair of headphones a month later than they should be that look exactly like their old headphones

cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
Maybe you missed something but I guess this is why you guys are so angry about this. Because it IS an entry into a nascent market. Apple sees this as a new IO device, not a "pair of fucking headphones". Take a look at the specs
- Skunkleton 10y ago
  How is it anything more than a wireless version of the headphones they have been bundling for years?
  - gambiting 10y ago
    It's like calling a Tesla "an electric version of the same cars that were on the road for decades". Each headphone has a new chip that could probably run a whole smartphone few years ago - but I mean, if the fact that they are wireless is not impressive, then I don't think we can convince you.
    - Amezarak 10y ago
      He's probably not impressed by the fact they're wireless because wireless headphones aren't new. I mean, even stodgy grumps like me have a pair that works well and cost $20. Wireless headphones just aren't impressive technology in December 2016. They've been done. Again and again. This isn't a Tesla situation by any means. Apple might have executed particularly well, but I see his point.
      - MBCook 10y ago
        Wireless headphones aren't new. Wireless headphones at that size/feature set/price point seem to be. The only comparable thing I know if is Samsung reportedly had some similar but they only had like 90m of battery life.
        brazzledazzle 10y ago
        I'm curious how well the battery life claims hold up. It's impressive but sometimes the real world battery life doesn't measure up. The new MacBook Pros are a good example of this (even if the current battery life is temporary and may be fixed by OS updates).
        MBCook 10y ago
        Apple tends to be highly accurate on battery life measurements. If they 5 hours playing music I believe them. The problem with the MBP is its 10 hours of a 'light workload'. And it meets that. But a HEAVY workload may be 4 hours and they don't advertise that. I don't remember reviewers saying anything bad about battery life on the AirPods back in October.
        monkmartinez 10y ago
        Eh, you said it... YOU believe them. A lot of people here don't anymore. Let's wait to see what real world use looks like. I mean, if you take the emoji touch bar at face value it's the coolest thing since sliced bread. However, real world use indicates that it might not be as useful as Apple wants it to be.
        MBCook 10y ago
        I think you misunderstood me. What I said is that Apple's numbers are highly accurate FOR WHAT THEY TESTED. The problem here is that Apple hasn't given numbers about what it's like under heavy load. Or really any load it all. If you stick to doing the kind of things Apple does in their battery life test you WILL get what they say. Unfortunately as we seem to be finding out if you go outside of that you're screwed. Obviously harder workloads always hit the computer more, but this year the delta seems much much higher. They are cherry picking tests that make their battery life look reasonable. I should also note that this is not the first time Apple did this. The quoted battery life on the iPhone 7 is basically the same as before, but they made a slight change to the wording. This year there tests are all with wireless headphones. This is likely because it's always been down that using the speaker on an iPhone to listen to music will lower your battery life pretty significantly, and now that the new iPhone 7 has a double speaker arrangement it's likely an even bigger effect than before. Apples not lying like so many PC makers used to do, they're playing lawyer games and choosing their words incredibly carefully. This is not a good turn. Apple giving real life accurate battery estimates used to be one of the things that put them above PC makers in my mind. If they're going to start redefining the workload to doing nothing on your computer... why bother?
    - hueving 10y ago
      Are you seriously suggesting these are the first wireless headphones?
      - madeofpalk 10y ago
        No one is suggesting that. There are not many wireless earbuds in this form-factor / category.
      - nilkn 10y ago
        Honest question: can you point me to some other earbuds of the same size that are totally wireless (not even a bridging wire) and that also include a microphone, etc.? The AirPods honestly do seem like a somewhat unique entry into the market to me, but it's such a crowded market that I could have easily missed a competitor somewhere. That said, the lack of any sort of wiring is actually a negative to me, because that's primarily what makes it seem like these will be so easy to lose.
        stonogo 10y ago
        The Bragi Dash and the Samsung Gear Icon X both do this, and also include fitness tracking functionality. The Samsung ones can even be loaded with music and cache your fitness data so you don't need a phone with you.
        Terretta 10y ago
        Bragi Dash: $249.99 after $50 off https://www.amazon.com/Bragi-Truly-Wireless-Smart-Earphones/dp/B01BHAU6QO https://www.amazon.com/Bragi-Truly-Wireless-Smart-Earphones/...
        FireBeyond 10y ago
        I think this is hilarious, even as someone who owns multiple Apple devices. "This is revolutionary. Nothing else does anything like this." "These do." "Well they cost more!", or "doesn't look as cool". Moving goalposts. And eh, I realize that Apple almost never goes below MSRP/list, but don't act like the "after $50 off" is some special promotion. It's not a rebate, even an instant one, just 'cheaper than list'.
    - Skunkleton 10y ago
      I was responding to this line by the parent commenter. > Because it IS an entry into a nascent market. Apple sees this as a new IO device, not a "pair of fucking headphones". It really is just a pair of headphones. This isn't a new market.
  - cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
    For starters, it has a CPU. Also it has an accelerometer. Also it has a microphone. Hope this answers your question.
- bhauer 10y ago
  I can't speak for the other guys above, but I must have missed something. I am baffled why this particular set of wireless headphones has received as much press as it has. It seems so overblown that I have to wonder if people with iPhone 7s have actually been refusing to use existing wireless headphones because they are actually waiting for these. I've had a set of $25 Motorola wireless (Bluetooth) headphones that I use on my daily walking commute to and from work for many years. They work and sound great. They double as a wireless microphone and playback controls. I charge them every day via a USB cable. Woohoo. I can't see anything specs-wise with the Apple headphones that is interesting. Auto-pause? Okay, cool, but I can press the pause button on my Bluetooth headphones from 2010. Switching between devices? I can enable or disable Bluetooth on my devices, I guess, if I had wanted to use the headphones with more than my phone (though I do not want that). These new features seem incremental at best. The clamor for these—and the fact that their availability is a high-ranking news item on HN—seems to suggest I am missing something very fundamental. And yet, it feels that I am not. These are wireless headphones with a couple incremental features and an Apple logo.
  - j2bax 10y ago
    Can you provide a link to your headphones so I can see if they are something I'd be at all interested in?
    - bhauer 10y ago
      Motorola S305: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BH3I9U https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BH3I9U They're from ~2009 or thereabouts. Traditional headphone form factor. Works great for my use case (pedestrian commutes to and from the office).
      - j2bax 10y ago
        I had a pair of wired Sony's wayyyyy back in the day in this wrap around ear/neck band form factor that I really loved when I was a kid. Lately though, I find anything that covers my ear too warm and uncomfortable. This is why I'm excited about the AirPods. I wouldn't really classify these Motorola's as truly wireless because of the connecting band.
j2bax 10y ago
Actually it is a bit more than "a pair of fucking headphones". As someone who spends a lot of time throughout the day listening to music, and finds Apple's Earpods to be some of the most comfortable nice sounding headphones I have owned, I'm rather excited about some innovation being done around this space. A few features that make them new/innovative: • Smart switching between multiple devices logged into iCloud. You need only pair with one of your iCloud devices and the rest will auto pair. • Auto-pause when removed from ears. • Auto-mono when only one is in your ear. • Carrying case that charges them rapidly and keeps them safe in your pocket. Edit: I said AirPods when I meant EarPods (the current wired ones). I don't currently have the AirPods. Edit 2: Another reason I'm excited about these: I absolutely abhor talking on the phone (like holding the phone up to my ear) and find single ear bluetooth devices to be lame in both function and appearance. I might be a smidge hard of hearing, so I much prefer to have both ears in on the action. I've tried a handful of Bluetooth headsets in the past, and they've all left me seriously wanting. Connectivity isn't consistent. Audio quality isn't great. If something doesn't just work like my wired headphones, I'm not going to switch. If these turn out to have the same issues, I'll gladly report how inaccurate Apple's marketing was and how disappointed I am.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  Carrying case - Plantronics and others would like to discuss "new/innovative": http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend-case http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend-case (I know that this product is not specifically music-oriented, but the operation principle is there still).
  - Terretta 10y ago
    I own that. It's not these.
  - npunt 10y ago
    Like with most things Apple, they don't necessarily create the first product in a space, but they define the category by refinement of user experience and inventing the necessary tech to support that. This Plantronics case isn't that great. You have to open it with two hands in front of you, and carefully place the awkwardly shaped headset in. You probably have to look at it while doing so. It's rather large, and the clear plastic cover looks like it can break pretty easily. It's also only one ear, and it's a $30 accessory. The AirPods can be opened one-handed while in your pocket, and you can place them in without looking. They're also smaller, the case looks quite a bit more durable, and they work with the charger you already have as an iPhone user (lightning). The AirPods and case were designed with a broader UX scope - the entire user experience, from opening to listening to putting away - as one unified product. The process that most hardware teams typically take is more narrowly focused on the core product hardware, rather than the entire scope of its use. If Plantronics had designed their headset with a broader UX scope in mind, they probably would have designed the headset itself differently, because its awkwardly shaped and hard to store. Instead I imagine they optimized the headset design for solely when its on-ear, and then asked how they could make a case for that shape. Such are the little differences that distinguish between regular products and category-defining ones (see also: iPod with iTunes).
madeofpalk 10y ago
> A pair of headphones a month later than they should be that look exactly like their old headphones ??? Maybe we have different standards on what 'look different' should be, but these are functionally and design-wise worlds apart from their existing headphones.
coldtea 10y ago
A pair of "fucking headphones" with a custom designed BT/audio processing chip that does lots of interesting things.
BinaryIdiot 10y ago
> This is a pair of fucking headphones. I'm not sure if you have a bias against Apple or not but you're distilling your adjectives down to the simplest level in order to attack them. I do not believe that is a fair assessment. The AirPods include some interesting UX changes not typically seen (open case to connect, etc) and while some abilities have been done before (the tiny ear buds, the recharging case, etc) it also has some interesting aspects with voice commands and gestures. Yes I wouldn't necessarily call them world class but a "pair of fucking headphones" seems possibly even more inaccurate to me.
- baddox 10y ago
  That's important to notice. Just adding "fucking" in front of what something is isn't a very good argument. You can do it to anything that people love or consider to be great. The Beatles is just a fucking band. Tesla just makes fucking electric cars. A cure for cancer is just a fucking medical discovery.
  - Avshalom 10y ago
    adding "magical" in front of everything isn't a good argument either. I rise to the level of my competition.
stuaxo 10y ago
Sort of like earrings you might see worn in star trek.

capkutay 10y ago

Keep in mind we're not really the audience for their copy. There's always some subliminal reason companies advertise the way they do. But I do agree it's kind of corny...

baddox 10y ago

I didn't throw up in my mouth, so that part seems to be subjective.