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The article doesn't mention that but another possible factor is that life is not that great over there either. If you are not Chinese, you'll always be a foreig
by laurent123456 10y ago
The article doesn't mention that but another possible factor is that life is not that great over there either. If you are not Chinese, you'll always be a foreigner there, even if you spend ten years in the same city, so that makes it difficult to integrate. You'll also have to deal with the Chinese administration for the visa, residence permit, etc. which is quite a pain. It's definitely a great place to visit or even to spend a few years, but it's not that welcoming if you want to live there more permanently.
- louhike 10y agoThe american administration is bad too for foreigners, so I think it can be summarized by how attractive the country is.
- duaneb 10y agoYou mean how the child of an immigrant is President?
- Jtsummers 10y agoUS immigration goes beyond just the President's personal views and desires. The present situation is pretty difficult for many would-be immigrants, even those from middle class backgrounds in stable countries. If they lack a degree or their degree isn't recognized, they can't easily get a work visa (for permanent resident status, not temporary workers). They have to get married, go for the diversity visa program, or become a student (may be their second or third degree for some if they go this route).
- duaneb 10y agoThis is true. But compare it to other countries: even where immigration is more relaxed, the cultural acceptance of foreign culture is greater in the US than most places. The only place I might prefer to be as a foreigner would be Canada.
- cylinder 10y agoHis father was not an immigrant, he was born in Queens. And the immigration laws are a much bigger obstacle now than they were even in the 80s.
- duaneb 10y agoI was referring to Obama Sr, who was born in Kenya.
- jameshart 10y agoWeird correction. Mary Anne MacLeod Trump, mother to Donald, was born on the Isle of Lewis in Scotland in 1912, emigrated to the US in 1930, married an American in 1936, naturalized 1942.
- duaneb 10y agoGreat find; I never would have realized this otherwise. Ironically this is more accurate than my statement about the current president!
- falsestprophet 10y agoYou mean how the child of an immigrant is President? The president's father was never an immigrant. An immigrant is someone who comes to life permanently in a new country. He was a foreign student with a wife in Kenya and eventually returned to Kenya with an American third wife upon the completion of his studies. Several presidents have been a child of an immigrant: Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, James Buchanan, Chester Arthur, Woodrow Wilson and Herbert Hoover.
- duaneb 10y agoCorrect; my apologies.
- seanmcdirmid 10y agoAn H1B doesn't have to reapply for a work visa every year, and they eventually get a green card, while green cards are extremely rare in China. Also, you don't have to re-register at the PSB in the states a few times a year, waiting in line just to get a little slip of paper. It is easy to get a working visa in tech, that's for sure, and if you have a company that jumps through all the hoops for you, it can be relatively painless.
- snambi 10y agoI'm an indian immigrant, this is totally not true. There may be edge cases, but in general, cannot agree with this statement.
- serge2k 10y agowhat? The american immigration system is pretty awful. H-1B to employer sponsored green card is a really lousy system.
- xiaoma 10y agoTry immigrating to China.
- jensvdh 10y agoI'm not familiar with China's system. But let's not pretend a lottery based system, where the only thing that decides whether you can stay in the country or not, is random number generation, like H1-B is great.
- wmil 10y agoChina's system is basically just "No, you can't stay". As of 2010 exactly 1,448 living immigrants had managed to become citizens. In contrast, the US naturalizes 700,000 every year. The country actually has more billionaires than non-Vietnamese refugees.
- lacampbell 10y agoRight. China is in the business of colonising other countries - not being colonised itself.
- officialjunk 10y agoA minority in the US could make that same exact argument...
- icelancer 10y agoOnly true if you're willing to be ignorant about how poor integration is in most of the Asian countries compared to the US.
- dethswatch 10y ago> you'll always be a foreigner there This isn't true in the US, if you learn the language.
- evidencepi 10y agolanguage != culture
- st3v3r 10y agoNo, but communication plays a huge deal in being able to absorb the culture, as well as share your own.
- arrosenberg 10y agoVery true. Most places in the US are fairly welcoming if you can speak English and communicate. It's even common for xenophobes to cut out an exception for immigrants and minorities they know personally and feel friendly toward.
- samsonradu 10y agoAlso the american culture is very wide spread through media. Watching Hollywood, music, sitcoms, talk shows, stand ups etc. ever since I was 10 yo and able to understand english definitely helps absorbing the culture even from eastern Europe as myself. Visited the US for 2 weeks and really felt as if I was no stranger at all.
- 10y ago
- aub3bhat 10y agoI agree, having arrived in USA 7 years ago, I have seen that its much easier to integrate in United States, especially if you live on East Coast or SF/LA. Sure there are visa and green card hurdles, but as a society Americans are probably more accepting of immigrants than any other country, except maybe Canada. Of course my experience is as a relatively well-off indian studying in United States, other will have a different experience.
- finid 10y agoThis is my observation: If you're Indian, being "relatively well-off" is not your only advantage: (White) Americans tend to view you in more favorable terms. It's almost as if we welcome you with open arms.
- parennoob 10y agoI am an Indian in the US. I get the general idea of what you are saying, but I should note that it has a strong implicit assumption of a very liberal community. In such communities (say in SF or NYC), I am welcomed pretty warmly. On the other hand, in a bunch of mostly male, middle-aged, Christian tech people in Middle America, I am regarded with a mildly welcoming/neutral attitude at best and open hostility that is leaning-towards-but-not-exactly-racism at the worst. So this "advantage" you mention is somewhat double-edged depending upon where you are.
- finid 10y agoThat "mildly welcoming/neutral attitude at best and open hostility that is leaning-towards-but-not-exactly-racism" attitude proves my point. That's much better than what folks from Black Africa, many with a much lighter skin tone than you, experience.
- parennoob 10y agoYes, but the initial thing you said was: > It's almost as if we welcome you with open arms. Perhaps there is something being lost in cross-cultural language or sarcasm, but I don't think "We might be racist to you, but we're way worse racist to this other group, so you have it good, really" should be expressed as "..as if we welcome you with open arms" and "You have an advantage...". Both of those are traditionally very positive expressions and you are applying them to fairly negative actual events.
- rfdub 10y agoRacial discrimination is completely legal in China. Why the hell would anyone want to move to a country where they can legally be discriminated against?
- icantdrive55 10y agoWhile we let any foreigner buy property in the USA with a phone call. Excuse me, they have some new regulation that purports to vet illegal foreign money? Out of everything our country overlooks, letting foreigners buy up our real-estate really bothers me.
- netheril96 10y agoWhen you are discriminated in a positive way. White males are regarded as superior in the eyes of many Chinese.