6 ms·

HP drops Windows 7 from 'Slate' tablet, will use WebOS

79 points by raganwald 17y ago

evo_9 17y ago
This is just awesome news. All my initial excitement about webOS is coming back now that it's not turning into (hopefully) another BeOS situation. Kudos to HP, I want one bad!
- bradlane 17y ago
  it's funny you mention BeOS, since it's now/will be HP's with the Palm acquisition.
  - Teese 17y ago
    BeOS is believed to have gone to of Palm in the hardware/software split. That means ACCESS owns Be.
lurch_mojoff 17y ago
As you were everyone - "...sources say..."
ableal 17y ago
Wishlist: - Pixel Qi or similar screen (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/the-pixel-qi-display/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/the-pixel-qi-display/ ). 1024x768 (instead of x600) would be nice. - Thrifty CPU/chipset (e.g. 1GHz ARM, etc.), for day-long battery. - Video out (e.g. mini-DP, for presentations, etc.) - Easy to install your own OS. Seems there's already Linux underneath WebOS; if HP is not selling hardware at a loss, it might as well profit from unsupported (software wise) customers ...
- dman 17y ago
  I am building a tablet from scratch with identical specs based on the Tegra developer kit. Will post about it on HN once the project is farther along. Ive waited for others to deliver features I want for too long, time to build my own.
- thmz 17y ago
  Sounds like the Adam from Notion Ink: http://www.notionink.in/adamoverview.php http://www.notionink.in/adamoverview.php
  - tsuraan 17y ago
    Except for the resolution (which is 1024x600 for that one as well). I don't know how you can claim "Full High Definition Multimedia" without offering even a 720p screen.
swernli 17y ago
I wish I could downvote articles. This is a shoddy regurgitation of the Techcrunch article from last week, with slightly more formal language (and thus misleading with its implied certainty). Let's compare: Techcrunch: "But our source tells us that HP is not satisfied with Windows 7 as a tablet operating system and has terminated the project (something CrunchGear mentioned months ago). HP may also be abandoning Intel-based hardware for its slate lineup simply because it’s too power hungry. That would also rule out Windows 7 as an operating system." AfterDawn: "Sources say HP was not happy with the overall performance of Windows 7 on their unreleased tablet, saying the OS was too power-hungry... TechCrunch says also that HP is set to drop the Intel processor used in the tablet, which would completely kill off any chance of Windows 7 being used." Funny how the echo suddenly changes it to the OS being too power hungry instead of the chipset, huh? It saddens me that this is how "news" often gets reported. People keep repeating mistaken versions of what they heard without doing any investigation of their own, until the facts get completely muddled. It's like a giant game of telephone...
- krschultz 17y ago
  It is a pretty awful article. But isn't it Windows fault that it requires a power hungry x86 CPU? You can run other OSes on multiple types of hardware and have your engineers pick the best hardware for the device's needs. Or you decide "We're going with Windows!" and now your engineers are trying to figure out how to stretch the battery long enough to run this x86 CPU. If not for Windows being stuck on one platform I don't think we would have ever had the Atom.
  - swernli 17y ago
    An interesting point, though I don't think it justifies the way the new article chose to change the meaning of the original by rephrasing it. I don't think it's just Windows that encourages x86 use; it's also the fact that the ecosystem is richer for that chipset anyway (hardware compatibility for things like the webcam and card reader come to mind). If you decide to go with a linux distro on top of custom hardware, then you might have to develop drivers yourself, as well as build up some UI paradigms customized for touch. WebOS gives them a great starting point to do just that, so in the end their actions still look consistent with their goals.
jimbokun 17y ago
"Additionally, a Windows 7 license will bring up the price of any final Slate product, and now that HP owns WebOS, the move makes sense." "TechCrunch says also that HP is set to drop the Intel processor used in the tablet, which would completely kill off any chance of Windows 7 being used." This gives HP more negotiating leverage over Microsoft and Intel. Now that they have their own OS they can put on new form factor devices, Microsoft will have to give HP a good deal to get Windows on those devices. Windows is tied pretty tightly to Intel, so owning WebOS gives them more flexibility in processor architecture. Negotiating over new devices could lead to lower prices from Microsoft and Intel all around. This alone could justify the price they paid for Palm, over time.
- loiuygthyujik 17y ago
  I can't see the price of Win7 license being an issue on a $550 PC. Normally the pay-back for including anti-virus and other trialware is more than the OEM windows license. I suspect this is a negotiating point with Redmond. If MS is serious about remaining relevent in the smartphone & table era - the price of a Win7 license might well be negative.
  - ptomato 17y ago
    Yes, because HP will totally think it's a good idea to continue pre-installing that shit on something they want to compete with the iPad.
    - loiuygthyujik 17y ago
      You think HP care about the customer experience!!!!!!! HP has been the graveyard of a lot of OSes - VMS, HPUX, Tru64, Compaq, Tandem now BEOS and WebOS
      - ptomato 17y ago
        That's quite a lot of exclamation points. And I just think it's possible that HP is finally getting a clue. Buying Palm is a good sign, because really, why else would they buy it if they're not planning on actually using WebOS?
jrockway 17y ago
The only thing worse than being in distant second place is being in distant third place. HP is weird, their laptops aren't the best, their netbooks aren't the best, and now they are rolling out tablets with a proprietary, untested operating system. My prediction: fail.
- dman 17y ago
  Small saving grace - their enterprise notebook lineup rocks. I am typing this one one. Solid aluminium body, reasonable prices, and best of all 24/7 online chat support where they help you out if you have any issue (The two times Ive had to use the support theyve been rather clueful). Also the three year next day warranty is built into the price. Sadly the elitebook isnt a well established brand.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    I have an HP enterprise laptop for work. It's junk. Just moving the mouse makes the fan spin up to sound like a jet taking off.
    - dman 17y ago
      Sounds like the computer is badly infested with viruses, or your employer has mouse tracking enabled ;).
- kevingadd 17y ago
  In the event that they use WebOS, How is Linux more 'proprietary' than Windows 7? How is it untested when it's shipping on real phones right now?
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Where can I download the WebOS source code? Where is a WebOS-only laptop that I can test?
    - 17y ago
mattmaroon 17y ago
Sigh. I have a Pre and I love it, but I don't want a bigger one. I want Windows 7 on a tablet (if any tablet at all). I want access to Roboform and Zumodrive and Dropbox and Trillian and full fledged Outlook/Exchange. I want Flash so I can play Facebook games (oddly more for work-related reasons). I can't imagine trying to use a browser without Roboform for anything other than the most casual Googling on the go. All my media is in the cloud in Zumo.
Keyframe 17y ago
Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense for HP to take that cool billion to microsoft for an initiative to further 7 for tablets... OR microsoft to buy palm and further the initiative themselves? HPs business is not OS (we'll leave HP-UX out of this).. I really see no point in them controlling their own OS for devices like these, unless they want to open source it eventually or something I'm not seeing.
- rbanffy 17y ago
  Not a great idea to find development of an OS you don't control and that can (and will) be used by your competitors. By buying Palm, HP gets: - immunity from Apple lawsuits (through MAD) - a decent patent portfolio on the mobile space - a decent OS comparable to Apple's - a reasonable stick with which to coerce Microsoft Not a bad deal, IMHO
  - Keyframe 17y ago
    I understand, but here is what they also get: - headache and commitment of OS maintenance and advancement on OS that nobody but them uses - virtually no app eco system Basically what they are getting is bootstrapping an OS onto the market in their own closed loop of hardware+OS which is an epic endeavor IMHO. They don't have (anymore) tablet nor OS nor apps on the market and now they will try to try to do all three at the same time. I was just saying it might have been better to rely on someone whose job is OS rather than allocate resources themselves.
    - glhaynes 17y ago
      Yeah, it sounds like webOS could make a great tablet OS. But I'm not sure about the market reality... apps are so important on these things, and when you've got iPad appealing to the design-centric crowd and Android appealing to the open/hacker-crowd (and no doubt, soon a broader variety of hardware than Apple will ever offer), what place is there for a third OS unless it's leaps and bounds better than one of those two competitors? Considering it in comparison to the PC market: iPad has both the "cool/design/ease-of-use" of the Mac and the large 3rd party app market of Windows; Android has the openness/choice/capability of Linux. Those both seem to have a very obvious niche and I'd think will continue to see much success. So what room is there for a 3rd OS? And it doesn't help any that Microsoft's going to want a big chunk of 3rd place, too... Still, it's nice to see more vendors attempting to sell/take responsibility for "the whole widget".
mark_l_watson 17y ago
Who could not have predicted this, after the Palm acquisition? I love my Droid phone and was thinking that a tablet droid (no phone service, just Wifi) would be really nice. The HP tablet with WebOS will also be worth considering. I read that in a few years that half of Internet use will be mobile devices so HP's acquisition of Palm may prove to be a good gamble.
Auzy83 17y ago
Drops Windows 7? More like RUMORED to do so. Please use accurate headlines people... Unless you want hacker-news to become like Digg?
stcredzero 17y ago
HP should host webOS on Android. That could give them an app ecosystem that can draw from JavaScript and Android together.
jsz0 17y ago
WebOS should make a nice tablet platform but I think HP is still going to face an uphill battle building up good third party applications if they don't take a more active role. HP needs to throw some money at developers. There just aren't enough WebOS devices out there for support to happen naturally. 1%-2% of the sticker price for Palm going into developers pockets would greatly improve the situation.

79 points by raganwald 17y ago

evo_9 17y ago

This is just awesome news. All my initial excitement about webOS is coming back now that it's not turning into (hopefully) another BeOS situation. Kudos to HP, I want one bad!

bradlane 17y ago
it's funny you mention BeOS, since it's now/will be HP's with the Palm acquisition.
- Teese 17y ago
  BeOS is believed to have gone to of Palm in the hardware/software split. That means ACCESS owns Be.

lurch_mojoff 17y ago

As you were everyone - "...sources say..."

ableal 17y ago

Wishlist: - Pixel Qi or similar screen (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/the-pixel-qi-display/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/the-pixel-qi-display/ ). 1024x768 (instead of x600) would be nice. - Thrifty CPU/chipset (e.g. 1GHz ARM, etc.), for day-long battery. - Video out (e.g. mini-DP, for presentations, etc.) - Easy to install your own OS. Seems there's already Linux underneath WebOS; if HP is not selling hardware at a loss, it might as well profit from unsupported (software wise) customers ...

dman 17y ago
I am building a tablet from scratch with identical specs based on the Tegra developer kit. Will post about it on HN once the project is farther along. Ive waited for others to deliver features I want for too long, time to build my own.
thmz 17y ago
Sounds like the Adam from Notion Ink: http://www.notionink.in/adamoverview.php http://www.notionink.in/adamoverview.php
- tsuraan 17y ago
  Except for the resolution (which is 1024x600 for that one as well). I don't know how you can claim "Full High Definition Multimedia" without offering even a 720p screen.

swernli 17y ago

I wish I could downvote articles. This is a shoddy regurgitation of the Techcrunch article from last week, with slightly more formal language (and thus misleading with its implied certainty). Let's compare: Techcrunch: "But our source tells us that HP is not satisfied with Windows 7 as a tablet operating system and has terminated the project (something CrunchGear mentioned months ago). HP may also be abandoning Intel-based hardware for its slate lineup simply because it’s too power hungry. That would also rule out Windows 7 as an operating system." AfterDawn: "Sources say HP was not happy with the overall performance of Windows 7 on their unreleased tablet, saying the OS was too power-hungry... TechCrunch says also that HP is set to drop the Intel processor used in the tablet, which would completely kill off any chance of Windows 7 being used." Funny how the echo suddenly changes it to the OS being too power hungry instead of the chipset, huh? It saddens me that this is how "news" often gets reported. People keep repeating mistaken versions of what they heard without doing any investigation of their own, until the facts get completely muddled. It's like a giant game of telephone...

krschultz 17y ago
It is a pretty awful article. But isn't it Windows fault that it requires a power hungry x86 CPU? You can run other OSes on multiple types of hardware and have your engineers pick the best hardware for the device's needs. Or you decide "We're going with Windows!" and now your engineers are trying to figure out how to stretch the battery long enough to run this x86 CPU. If not for Windows being stuck on one platform I don't think we would have ever had the Atom.
- swernli 17y ago
  An interesting point, though I don't think it justifies the way the new article chose to change the meaning of the original by rephrasing it. I don't think it's just Windows that encourages x86 use; it's also the fact that the ecosystem is richer for that chipset anyway (hardware compatibility for things like the webcam and card reader come to mind). If you decide to go with a linux distro on top of custom hardware, then you might have to develop drivers yourself, as well as build up some UI paradigms customized for touch. WebOS gives them a great starting point to do just that, so in the end their actions still look consistent with their goals.

jimbokun 17y ago

"Additionally, a Windows 7 license will bring up the price of any final Slate product, and now that HP owns WebOS, the move makes sense." "TechCrunch says also that HP is set to drop the Intel processor used in the tablet, which would completely kill off any chance of Windows 7 being used." This gives HP more negotiating leverage over Microsoft and Intel. Now that they have their own OS they can put on new form factor devices, Microsoft will have to give HP a good deal to get Windows on those devices. Windows is tied pretty tightly to Intel, so owning WebOS gives them more flexibility in processor architecture. Negotiating over new devices could lead to lower prices from Microsoft and Intel all around. This alone could justify the price they paid for Palm, over time.

loiuygthyujik 17y ago
I can't see the price of Win7 license being an issue on a $550 PC. Normally the pay-back for including anti-virus and other trialware is more than the OEM windows license. I suspect this is a negotiating point with Redmond. If MS is serious about remaining relevent in the smartphone & table era - the price of a Win7 license might well be negative.
- ptomato 17y ago
  Yes, because HP will totally think it's a good idea to continue pre-installing that shit on something they want to compete with the iPad.
  - loiuygthyujik 17y ago
    You think HP care about the customer experience!!!!!!! HP has been the graveyard of a lot of OSes - VMS, HPUX, Tru64, Compaq, Tandem now BEOS and WebOS
    - ptomato 17y ago
      That's quite a lot of exclamation points. And I just think it's possible that HP is finally getting a clue. Buying Palm is a good sign, because really, why else would they buy it if they're not planning on actually using WebOS?

jrockway 17y ago

The only thing worse than being in distant second place is being in distant third place. HP is weird, their laptops aren't the best, their netbooks aren't the best, and now they are rolling out tablets with a proprietary, untested operating system. My prediction: fail.

dman 17y ago
Small saving grace - their enterprise notebook lineup rocks. I am typing this one one. Solid aluminium body, reasonable prices, and best of all 24/7 online chat support where they help you out if you have any issue (The two times Ive had to use the support theyve been rather clueful). Also the three year next day warranty is built into the price. Sadly the elitebook isnt a well established brand.
- jrockway 17y ago
  I have an HP enterprise laptop for work. It's junk. Just moving the mouse makes the fan spin up to sound like a jet taking off.
  - dman 17y ago
    Sounds like the computer is badly infested with viruses, or your employer has mouse tracking enabled ;).
kevingadd 17y ago
In the event that they use WebOS, How is Linux more 'proprietary' than Windows 7? How is it untested when it's shipping on real phones right now?
- jrockway 17y ago
  Where can I download the WebOS source code? Where is a WebOS-only laptop that I can test?
  - 17y ago

mattmaroon 17y ago

Sigh. I have a Pre and I love it, but I don't want a bigger one. I want Windows 7 on a tablet (if any tablet at all). I want access to Roboform and Zumodrive and Dropbox and Trillian and full fledged Outlook/Exchange. I want Flash so I can play Facebook games (oddly more for work-related reasons). I can't imagine trying to use a browser without Roboform for anything other than the most casual Googling on the go. All my media is in the cloud in Zumo.

Keyframe 17y ago

Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense for HP to take that cool billion to microsoft for an initiative to further 7 for tablets... OR microsoft to buy palm and further the initiative themselves? HPs business is not OS (we'll leave HP-UX out of this).. I really see no point in them controlling their own OS for devices like these, unless they want to open source it eventually or something I'm not seeing.

rbanffy 17y ago
Not a great idea to find development of an OS you don't control and that can (and will) be used by your competitors. By buying Palm, HP gets: - immunity from Apple lawsuits (through MAD) - a decent patent portfolio on the mobile space - a decent OS comparable to Apple's - a reasonable stick with which to coerce Microsoft Not a bad deal, IMHO
- Keyframe 17y ago
  I understand, but here is what they also get: - headache and commitment of OS maintenance and advancement on OS that nobody but them uses - virtually no app eco system Basically what they are getting is bootstrapping an OS onto the market in their own closed loop of hardware+OS which is an epic endeavor IMHO. They don't have (anymore) tablet nor OS nor apps on the market and now they will try to try to do all three at the same time. I was just saying it might have been better to rely on someone whose job is OS rather than allocate resources themselves.
  - glhaynes 17y ago
    Yeah, it sounds like webOS could make a great tablet OS. But I'm not sure about the market reality... apps are so important on these things, and when you've got iPad appealing to the design-centric crowd and Android appealing to the open/hacker-crowd (and no doubt, soon a broader variety of hardware than Apple will ever offer), what place is there for a third OS unless it's leaps and bounds better than one of those two competitors? Considering it in comparison to the PC market: iPad has both the "cool/design/ease-of-use" of the Mac and the large 3rd party app market of Windows; Android has the openness/choice/capability of Linux. Those both seem to have a very obvious niche and I'd think will continue to see much success. So what room is there for a 3rd OS? And it doesn't help any that Microsoft's going to want a big chunk of 3rd place, too... Still, it's nice to see more vendors attempting to sell/take responsibility for "the whole widget".

mark_l_watson 17y ago

Who could not have predicted this, after the Palm acquisition? I love my Droid phone and was thinking that a tablet droid (no phone service, just Wifi) would be really nice. The HP tablet with WebOS will also be worth considering. I read that in a few years that half of Internet use will be mobile devices so HP's acquisition of Palm may prove to be a good gamble.

Auzy83 17y ago

Drops Windows 7? More like RUMORED to do so. Please use accurate headlines people... Unless you want hacker-news to become like Digg?

stcredzero 17y ago

HP should host webOS on Android. That could give them an app ecosystem that can draw from JavaScript and Android together.

jsz0 17y ago

WebOS should make a nice tablet platform but I think HP is still going to face an uphill battle building up good third party applications if they don't take a more active role. HP needs to throw some money at developers. There just aren't enough WebOS devices out there for support to happen naturally. 1%-2% of the sticker price for Palm going into developers pockets would greatly improve the situation.