5 ms·

Data on what poor people buy when they’re just given cash

34 points by kafkaesq 10y ago

protomyth 10y ago
A nice summary would be: Hope changes spending habits.
Neliquat 10y ago
Would this have the same effect if the money was distributed evenly between the sexes? The articles mention of most money going to mothers seems to skew the results such that the title seems hopeful at best, and perhaps disingenuous as written by someone who should know better.
blakesterz 10y ago
>> This negative result is supported by data from Latin America, Africa, and Asia, for both conditional and unconditional cash transfer programs. I wonder if the same results are seen in North America? http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/689575 http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/689575
Yhippa 10y ago
> Regardless of why, the idea that poor people will use any cash they get for cigarettes and alcohol has been laid to waste. Pretty bold claim.
rcdmd 10y ago
The "definitive data" is a meta-analysis of economic studies and hidden behind a paywall[1]. The linked article doesn't have any data or charts. [1] http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/689575 http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/689575
- Noseshine 10y ago
  I don't know how controversial it will be to post this here (heavily moderated /r/science on reddit removed a post when I did this some time ago), but enter that URL on Sci-Hub ("The Pirate Bay of science" [0]) and enjoy: http://sci-hub.cc/ http://sci-hub.cc/ About Sci-Hub: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci-Hub https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci-Hub [0] http://www.sciencealert.com/this-woman-has-illegally-uploaded-millions-of-journal-articles-in-an-attempt-to-open-up-science http://www.sciencealert.com/this-woman-has-illegally-uploade...
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  Here's a super secret non-paywall'd version: http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/617631468001808739/pdf/WPS6886.pdf http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/617631468001808739...
tomohawk 10y ago
Anecdotal, but I got to know quite a few of the people where I used to live who were receiving section 8 and other welfare benefits. For pretty much all of them, anything that could be converted or exchanged for some sort of cash, would be. Then it was used for drugs. In one case, a mother with 6 children was due to have heat cut off because she had found a way to divert the money to drugs instead of to pay for heat. The food stamps for food was similarly diverted even though her kids didn't have enough to eat. So, lets say we provide cash payments to people and they still don't pay for their own basic needs. What then? Are we prepared to say, "too bad you have no heat this winter. I guess you get to be cold."? Where does it end?
- foxhill 10y ago
  well, i'm hardly surprised, give drug addicts money and i assume they'll use it to get more drugs. however, the article is about people near or below the poverty line, not addicts.
- Waterluvian 10y ago
  Sounds like not giving them cash can be abused anyway. So yeah, really seems like not wasting all the administrative costs of micromanaging other people's finances may be the way to go.
- undersuit 10y ago
  So making it harder to convert benefits to cash doesn't work to stop drug use. Making drugs illegal doesn't stop drug use. Why do we care about drug use? As this is your anecdote, did you make any attempts to protect those children? Maybe give them some food or call Child Protection Services? Or were you just morally outraged that the mother would use drugs?
  - thescribe 10y ago
    On the other hand, society seems to have an interest in making sure children do not starve, but I think you would be hard pressed to show society has an interest in subsidizing what amounts to a hobby.
jonteru 10y ago
It's not evident from the short article, but was this a one time payment or monthly allowance? I would imagine that one time or non regular payment would work better than monthly so people don't start to rely on it too much and become lazy.
- nickthemagicman 10y ago
  Where do they teach you to talk like this? What evidence do you have that giving people money makes them lazy? There's no evidence for what you just said. It's insane that you believe that.
g00gler 10y ago
Pretty interesting. I use the money I get for holidays almost exclusively for cigarettes, alcohol, and gambling. Someone should perform a survey of middle to upper class people and see what they spend free money on. Are they just projecting their insecurities on other people?
gaspoweredcat 10y ago
kind of a misleading title as it doesnt actually say what its spent on, just that it isnt spent on cigs and alcohol as they expected

34 points by kafkaesq 10y ago

A nice summary would be: Hope changes spending habits.

Would this have the same effect if the money was distributed evenly between the sexes? The articles mention of most money going to mothers seems to skew the results such that the title seems hopeful at best, and perhaps disingenuous as written by someone who should know better.

blakesterz 10y ago

>> This negative result is supported by data from Latin America, Africa, and Asia, for both conditional and unconditional cash transfer programs. I wonder if the same results are seen in North America? http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/689575 http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/689575

Yhippa 10y ago

> Regardless of why, the idea that poor people will use any cash they get for cigarettes and alcohol has been laid to waste. Pretty bold claim.

rcdmd 10y ago

The "definitive data" is a meta-analysis of economic studies and hidden behind a paywall[1]. The linked article doesn't have any data or charts. [1] http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/689575 http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/689575

Noseshine 10y ago
I don't know how controversial it will be to post this here (heavily moderated /r/science on reddit removed a post when I did this some time ago), but enter that URL on Sci-Hub ("The Pirate Bay of science" [0]) and enjoy: http://sci-hub.cc/ http://sci-hub.cc/ About Sci-Hub: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci-Hub https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci-Hub [0] http://www.sciencealert.com/this-woman-has-illegally-uploaded-millions-of-journal-articles-in-an-attempt-to-open-up-science http://www.sciencealert.com/this-woman-has-illegally-uploade...
kafkaesq 10y ago
Here's a super secret non-paywall'd version: http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/617631468001808739/pdf/WPS6886.pdf http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/617631468001808739...

tomohawk 10y ago

Anecdotal, but I got to know quite a few of the people where I used to live who were receiving section 8 and other welfare benefits. For pretty much all of them, anything that could be converted or exchanged for some sort of cash, would be. Then it was used for drugs. In one case, a mother with 6 children was due to have heat cut off because she had found a way to divert the money to drugs instead of to pay for heat. The food stamps for food was similarly diverted even though her kids didn't have enough to eat. So, lets say we provide cash payments to people and they still don't pay for their own basic needs. What then? Are we prepared to say, "too bad you have no heat this winter. I guess you get to be cold."? Where does it end?

foxhill 10y ago
well, i'm hardly surprised, give drug addicts money and i assume they'll use it to get more drugs. however, the article is about people near or below the poverty line, not addicts.
Waterluvian 10y ago
Sounds like not giving them cash can be abused anyway. So yeah, really seems like not wasting all the administrative costs of micromanaging other people's finances may be the way to go.
undersuit 10y ago
So making it harder to convert benefits to cash doesn't work to stop drug use. Making drugs illegal doesn't stop drug use. Why do we care about drug use? As this is your anecdote, did you make any attempts to protect those children? Maybe give them some food or call Child Protection Services? Or were you just morally outraged that the mother would use drugs?
- thescribe 10y ago
  On the other hand, society seems to have an interest in making sure children do not starve, but I think you would be hard pressed to show society has an interest in subsidizing what amounts to a hobby.

jonteru 10y ago

It's not evident from the short article, but was this a one time payment or monthly allowance? I would imagine that one time or non regular payment would work better than monthly so people don't start to rely on it too much and become lazy.

nickthemagicman 10y ago
Where do they teach you to talk like this? What evidence do you have that giving people money makes them lazy? There's no evidence for what you just said. It's insane that you believe that.

g00gler 10y ago

Pretty interesting. I use the money I get for holidays almost exclusively for cigarettes, alcohol, and gambling. Someone should perform a survey of middle to upper class people and see what they spend free money on. Are they just projecting their insecurities on other people?

gaspoweredcat 10y ago

kind of a misleading title as it doesnt actually say what its spent on, just that it isnt spent on cigs and alcohol as they expected