6 ms·

Ask YC: Why do you recommend a Macbook?

• robmnl 19y ago
  stable, affordable, good user interface. expose and spaces are time savers. big no is battery time. I don't think you're missing out on too much if you primarily code.
• graywh 19y ago
  OS X is often easier than Windows and powerful like *Nix/BSD. The plastic case on the MacBook isn't the strongest, though.
• moog 19y ago
  Is there a cumulative reduction in friction everywhere? I'd say yes. I've used Unix, PC and Mac for years and have always found I get more done and am happier when it's on a Mac.
  • jgrahamc 19y ago
    Agreed, I feel the same way about my MBP. Basically, I've used all sorts of things for years (going back to CP/M machines, via DOS and every flavor of Windows, SuSE, Fedora, Ubuntu, ... ) and the Mac is the right combination: 1. Stuff that I need to get done just works (e.g. sync my Bluetooth phone to address book, hook up to wireless networks, do backups) 2. Aesthetically pleasing. Don't discount this when it comes to hackers... we like elegant code and machines. 3. Unix underneath... no loss of power.
  • deleted 19y ago
    [deleted]
• manvsmachine 19y ago
  I speak from limited experience with Macs, but I'd think that a lot of it has to do with the 'out of the box' experience. I'm running Gutsty right now too and I have it tweaked just the way I like it, but it can take some time / effort to get everything set up "your way". Of course, none of this applies if you're running the stock Gutsy config, but why would you want to do that? Essentially OSX is for people who want the benefits of *nix but don't enjoy, or can't spend the time, hacking their OS as much as hacking their code. @robmnl: Expose functionality is built into compiz-fusion, and Linux users have been enjoying virtual desktops for god knows how long.
• tokipin 19y ago
  pg said that Mac lets him drag and drop code from vi to repl - and he was very happy about it you can do that on any OS with the GUI shell for Vim (with Vim running in Vi compatible mode if that matters) [edit]: actually it doesn't look like it's possible. i could have sworn it was though <.< my bad i'm guessing the iPod has something to do with macs becoming more popular
  • kirubakaran 19y ago
    I tried this now but it didn't work for me. I must be missing something. Please help. I am running GVIM (I am at work so I am on Windows). I am trying to drag and drop a block of code to Python REPL. It is not happening.
    • ibgeek 19y ago
      Ummm... copy and paste?
      • kirubakaran 19y ago
        Mac supposedly allows you to drag&drop code without explicit copy&paste.
        • ibgeek 19y ago
          That may be true but that is such a minor thing. I use OS X and Linux... definitely not something that ever makes a difference.
        • utx00 19y ago
          you don't mind not having page-up/page-down keys?
          • curi 19y ago
            macs do have page up and page down keys
• mrtron 19y ago
  It is physically well made. I beat the crap out of my macbook and it puts up with the abuse without problem. It is fast and reliable. It is portable. I would pay double the price for how great it is.
• utx00 19y ago
  You're not missing out on anything, there are no significant advantages (specially not over a t61) I sold my powerbook on ebay, and I'm still happy with my t42 running gutsy as well.
  • darjen 19y ago
    Almost all of my coworkers use Thinkpads. I started off on a T43, and have recently been upagraded to T60. Would never trade it in for a mac.
    • utx00 19y ago
      Good for you. I started out on a T20 (I'm old). Still have it. Still love it. One of these days I'll move up to a T60 or whatever. For now, T42 still kicks a$$.
      • stcredzero 19y ago
        I still have a T22 with Libranet (Debian) Linux on it. The keyboard light was great! (Much cheaper than a backlit-keyboard, and accomplished the same thing. But I do everything nowadays on my old G4 Powerbook.
      • Zak 19y ago
        I started out with a Powerbook 140, and I don't think 26 counts as old here. I have a T20 too - 6th laptop I've owned. I've rebuilt it 3 or 4 times and replaced everything but the screen at some point. It's a good machine aside from having an annoying tendency to corrupt the contents of its CMOS chip. I've noticed both Apple and IBM/Lenovo dropping in quality over the past 10 years or so. I have a Thinkpad 600X from 1998 or so - it's made mostly of carbon fiber, with a rubber coating. My Z61m is made mostly of cheap plastic, though it does have a metal frame and titanium lid. Apple uses either polycarbonate or aluminum, but seems to have a high rate of logic board failures. I'm not a huge fan of metal on the surfaces of a laptop that come in to contact with my body during use either - it transmits heat.
• jey 19y ago
  Because it's the best desktop unix machine available. Where else can you find true unix with a great user experience and full hardware and software support? I don't use Linux because I no longer enjoy doing sysadmin crap. I also like the MacOS UI.
  • davidw 19y ago
    I don't think it's as good a desktop experience as OSX, but for a hacker, Ubuntu isn't half bad, and continues to improve by leaps and bounds. Less and less 'sysadmin crap' is necessary these days. And you can get an Ubuntu machine from Dell that is very well supported. I wouldn't recommend it to my parents, just yet (they're happy with OSX), but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Dell+Ubuntu to people here. It might not be as sexy, but it's a setup that works pretty well. I had a tibook a number of years ago, and while it was certainly a beautiful machine that got lots of looks, in the end, I'm just as happy with my ugly clunky (but cheap and well supported) Dell.
    • jey 19y ago
      Yeah, if I was optimizing on price I would just get a Dell laptop and throw Ubuntu on it. (Although I would make sure that all the hardware is well-supported first. I have spent far too many hours patching kernels and adjusting parameters when using Linux with brand new hardware.)
      • davidw 19y ago
        You can buy Dells with Ubuntu on them: http://www.dell.com/ubuntu http://www.dell.com/ubuntu It was pretty cool to get it, open it up, and see it boot Ubuntu. I admit I did have to tweak it just a bit (about 15 minutes of googling and config files), but I think it was one of the first ones, hopefully they've gotten even better. I chatted with some of the guys working on it at OSCON last year, and they wrote down a few of the bugs I had found.
        • doubleplus 19y ago
          I got one of these right after they came out, too. Having had no experience with Linux before then, I've spent more than 15 minutes at a time figuring out how to get things to work. Right away, it was a couple nights on nvidia driver and wpa support. And since then, about once a month, I'll have to spend a whole night or two figuring something else out... last weekend it was something with generic vs rt kernels for ubuntustudio. Anyhoo, looking back, I wouldn't suggest it to any relative novices (like me) who really just want to use their computer to accomplish normal tasks, and who aren't into tinkering for the sake of it. Gnome/KDE in K/Ubuntu are really convenient and slick 29/30 days, but to be honest, I'm getting tired of fighting my computer and I'll likely pick up a Mac when I get a new desktop this summer.
• eugenejen 19y ago
  I am speaking from hard customization aspect. I like MacBook better than MacBook Pro in this domain. It is relatively painless to replace hard drive and memory inside a MacBook. Of course I need to do some research to know the power consumption of hard drive and memory before I ordered replacement, so I can avoid overheat inside my MacBook. MacBook pro is great in its dedicated graphic chip and better range of view angle of its TFT display. But to replace a hard drive, it takes pain to remove all screws and lift up cables around the disk. And from what I read from Guy Kawasaki's blog, you can't return a beefed up MacBook back to Apple if you feel it is not what you want. I went for MacBook because it is painless to add memory and upgrade disk. And I don't mind its less than perfect graphic performance and display because I use external LCD monitor when I can. It is smaller in size and light in weight so it is easier to carry around and it is 50% cheaper than MacBook Pro. I get what I paid for but also a little bit less hassle to mod it.
• iowahansen 19y ago
  I'm generally a person that values function more than form, but I have to say it is a real daily joy to work on gorgeous hardware like a Macbook Pro. The reason Macs are more expensive because they only offer high-end hardware specs. A similar spec'ed Dell comes roughly at the same price. If you are hacker, always use the best tools there are. This is an invest in yourself. Hardware aside, the real reason you should switch is OSX and the applications around it. Stuff just works. Sounds like a marketing message but its true. You can focus on accomplishing the task rather than wrestling with shortcomings and crutches of the environment. Application developers on the Mac also have the philosophy to integrate with existing services as much as possible, which makes a huge difference, because most of the stuff you use is able to talk to each other. Compare that to Windows where every application/service is its own island. Imho, OSX is by far the best platform out there right now bar none. It's amazing to see how even non-hackers are blown away once they switch. You should too.
  • utx00 19y ago
    Have you tried the latest Ubuntu?
    • gcv 19y ago
      Sure. Two problems with it: 1. Still fairly bad video hardware support. I spent two hours helping a buddy set up a mid-range ATI card recently, and we couldn't get full acceleration to work. The configuration just plain sucked. 2. Fonts in the X environment are so ugly that I can't stare at an editor window full of code. Good fonts are rarely open-source. Ubuntu is nice, but it doesn't come close to the experience of opening a box, pushing the "on" button, and being able to start working right away.
      • utx00 19y ago
        1. fair enough. i can see how that could be a deal breaker. You probably know about the sad state of affairs with those vendors, and I guess reasons don't matter much if it doesn't work. all i can say is that it is improving. 2. it's not the fonts. check this out: http://ubuntutips.net/node/10 http://ubuntutips.net/node/10. in a nutshell, just put <match target="font"> <edit name="hintstyle"> <const>hintslight</const> </edit> <edit name="autohint"> <bool>true</bool></edit> <edit name="rgba"> <const>rgb</const></edit> <edit mode="assign" name="hinting"> <bool>true</bool> </edit> <edit mode="assign" name="antialias"> <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> in your ~/.fonts.conf file. you won't believe your eyes. try it. :)
• ibgeek 19y ago
  You shouldn't make decisions like this based on hype or other people's opinions. It's personal thing. You are the one who has to be happy and productive on the platform -- no one else -- so why let someone else determine what you use?
  • hollerith 19y ago
    Uh, he's asking for advice now before he spends $2000 or so on a MBP. Of course, if he buys it and hates it, he'll go back to what he is using now.
• mynameishere 19y ago
  Yes, there is a huge advantage to using Macs: http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html
• willchang 19y ago
  Devices always work on Windows first, and then drivers are eventually made for UNIX. Software that make hackers productive are always first in UNIX, and then eventually ported to Windows. A hacker who had to use one system for everything is faced with either the horror of having to use XFree86 or the horror of having to build an executable in Windows. Traditionally people got around the problem by having a Windows PC for the devices and a UNIX server for getting work done. With a Mac, you often get the best of both systems in one machine: devices just work, and compiling UNIX software is easy.
• comatose_kid 19y ago
  The keyboard feels great on the macbook pros. The downside is the lame insistence on a single mouse button.
  • projectileboy 19y ago
    I would have agreed once upon a time, but now I either use my mighty mouse, or else the two finger tap.
    • rksprst 19y ago
      The two finger tap is easier to use than a right mouse button, IMO.
  • curi 19y ago
    mac programs avoid using right-click context menus as a primary interface approach. so what do you need it for? for gaming you need to plug in a mouse anyway. otherwise occasional ctrl-clicking isn't hard, nor is the 2 finger thing.
• dbryson 19y ago
  I have a macbook which I run linux on. I get the best of both worlds having a great laptop with lots of 3rd party hardware(and now x86). And all the fun of recompiling my kernel.
  • utx00 19y ago
    well there you go. although i don't know how much fun anyone can have recompiling kernels ;) cheers.
    • kirubakaran 19y ago
      My friends and I used to drink cold beer while the kernel recompiled in the background. Happy times. Almost 10 years ago! (Kingfisher (Indian beer))
      • maximilian 19y ago
        I can see it now: "Dude! New kernel is out!", "I'll get the beer... Psssh, crack, glug glug glug" Never before were nerds that excited about recompiling the kernel.
        • kirubakaran 19y ago
          Us = geeks. ( geeks are nerds who can get laid ;) )
  • mov 19y ago
    I did the same. Using Debian at my Macbook.
• plusbryan 19y ago
  I was a mac user when macs weren't cool. Mac OS 9 was like that edgy indie band that suddenly became an overnight success. Sellouts! :-)
  • bobochan 19y ago
    Hey, I remember upgrading from my thoroughly cool //e to my first Mac -- they were VERY cool at the start. Macs were more like a cool band that has a huge first album, kind of loses their way for a couple of records and then gets the mojo back with a monster record that leaves everybody nodding, "I love these guys!"
    • dhimes 19y ago
      I got one of the first mac plus machines. A full 1MB of RAM. People said, "you'll never run out of memory!" Great machine, though. Hacked some assembly for the 86000.
• newt0311 19y ago
  Personally, I got a macbook for the amazing hardware design. It is one of the few laptops I have seen which is sleek, beautiful, and very very effective. The laptop is very well designed. OS X is also well designed but for a different demographic. Thats why I use Linux for the software. Still, the hardware design is amazing.
• mixmax 19y ago
  I tried to switch over to a mac a year ago. It didn't work, so I switched back after three months. I found that a lot of little things were annoying, and made me spend more time than I needed on doing trivial things sucha as resizing of windows. On mac it can only be done from one corner, on windows from all four. There are lots of these little things that mean you have to spend three clicks instead of two. I see why they make sense if you're a beginner - it's almost impossible to do anything wrong. Other things that annoy me the fact that it is impossible to find a lot of the little shareware programs I use under windows, and that their equivalent of Outlook really sucks. And I simply don't understand why there is only one mousebutton. That alone was enough to switch back. Overall my opinion of macs is that they are excellent for beginners, and for looking cool in the cafes but for me it simply didn't make the cut for serious work. I don't code, but work in outlook, excel, word and a browser. This might make make a difference.
  • jmtulloss 19y ago
    The pseudo multi-touch trackpad on the macbook is awesome. It takes away the pain of the one mouse button and makes scrolling a joy. After experiencing that trackpad, no other trackpad even comes close (though I bet the one on the macbook air is even more of a joy to use)
  • utx00 19y ago
    I code. I had the exact same experience. This is two years ago and things might have improved. But the ports system did not have that much software, I didn't like the feel of the keyboard, it's a huge heat sink (and then in cold NY mornings it would be cold to the touch when I started it), I didn't like the anti-alising, I didn't like the default terminal program (and couldn't be bothered to get a new one ... that was the point of getting a powerbook in the first place - all the supposedly annoying sysadmin things I wouldn't have to do). java support was horrible too (that might be better - and besides this is not a java crowd) I didn't like all the proprietary formats for iphoto, and itunes either. oh and yeah. I have a lot of mail. The import into Mail.app took days. It was ok after that. But once again, the mail files use a proprietary tagging system to know when mail is read and what not. It wasn't fun porting that back to maildir. try ubuntu. you might like.
• alps 19y ago
  When Linux can get it's GUI in shape, I will gladly move to it. I will miss TextMate dearly, but I will use Linux when the GUI (Gnome and KDE) people can get this one thing correct: Separation between line editing commands, and GUI commands. It is very simple. What happens on Linux when you are in Thunderbird and you do "^a"? It selects all! What happens when you do that on the command line? It takes you to the beginning of the line! Why a different experience for the exact same universal command? On a Mac, "^a" always brings you to the beginning of the line, whether you are in Terminal, a Safari text edit box, a Mail email message, etc. "command a" always selects all, whether you are in Terminal, a Safari text edit box, a Mail email message, etc. The same goes for "^k", "^y", "^e", etc. Cocoa uses basic Emacs bindings, and the user experience because of it is hands down better. I drove myself nuts on Windows for 3 months, then Linux for 8 until I told my employer that I either get a Mac or I leave. They gave me a Mac. My hands, brain, productivity, and my employer are all better off as a result.
• kingkongrevenge 19y ago
  > 'budding hackers' nowadays coding on a Macbook Why hack on a laptop? Why not use a desktop that's much cheaper, much more powerful, much more reliable, and easy to fix in one day? You can get two for the price of a new laptop. If you're on the road with sufficient frequency that you actually need a laptop to work then you're probably a salesman or manager, not a hacker. I can get to all my data from any machine: everything is on the web or accessible by ssh. I don't need to lug one with me. Paper works fine for the occasional six hour period away from a machine. I do have an old laptop I sync to my desktop with unison to use on the road when need be, but that's just not very often.
  • jmtulloss 19y ago
    To work with other people wherever they end up. We're not working in some cubicle day in and day out, we need to go to our co-workers and sit there next to them hacking on problems. I prefer hacking on my desktop too, but I could not operate without the ability to take my work with me.
    • kingkongrevenge 19y ago
      > sit there next to them hacking on problems This is high level design, no? It works fine on paper/white-board. You sit alone to refine it and do any implementation. You pair program on one machine if someone is clueless and being ramped up.
      • stcredzero 19y ago
        There are times with a sufficiently high level dynamic language, where you can usefully and quickly pair program your high level design. The ideal platform for this is a desktop on a table (not a concave cublicle desk, just a flat table) with a wireless keyboard.
      • jmtulloss 19y ago
        I find that it can be useful to just be in the same room when working on dependent, if separate tasks. It's often necessary to nail down details as you're thinking through every possible different situation, which really only occurs once you're coding every possible situation.
• jmtulloss 19y ago
  I find a macbook with 2 virtual machines (linux/windows) gives me the power I need, the operating system I love, and the flexibility to develop in any and all environments. Plus, the size of the macbook is perfect when it's not your primary computer. It's the best piece of hardware I've ever owned.
• loumf 19y ago
  Not everything I do with a computer is programming. For everything else I do, a Mac is perfect. And it's a pretty good dev machine.
• hollywoodcole 19y ago
  Funny how when you are about to buy something expensive as a Macbook Pro you do a lot of research and then you see other people asking a question like this for you. I'm about to buy a Macbook Pro last-gen and I just thought that was weird!
• jharper 19y ago
  Synergy of ... - An apple interface (streamlined and beautiful). - Awesome performance/security/organization of unix.
  • utx00 19y ago
    is this too old to still be considered valid? http://www.techworld.com/security/news/index.cfm?newsid=1798 http://www.techworld.com/security/news/index.cfm?newsid=1798
• albertcardona 19y ago
  I used a PowerBook Ti 3.5 1Ghz for 4 years and I loved it. But since most of my programming is in java (whatever), I _had_ to switch. The last year I simply run ubuntu-ppc. IMO: The best of apple laptops: (1) long battery life, (2) bright screens, (3) very comfortable keyboards -if you remap the apple keys to control. The worst of apple laptops: (1) they get burning hot -even new macbook pros; (2) the spinning beachball (of death) can get to your nerves -too much swapping; (3) their sharp edge will hurt your wrists -as opposed to a smoothened, curvy Thinkpad T60 (my current).
• jdavid 19y ago
  i almost bought a macbook pro for the screen. mac makes it easy for you to get a non glossy high def display. you can now even get LED backlit which should give brighter whites, better contrast, and longer backlight life. the rest of the manufactures are behind mac in display tech. i ended up going with a dell precision because of dells support for ubuntu, and i could get better hardware than the mac for $1000 less, with a 3 accident warranty. So basically for $2500 i have a machine that is faster, and will be replaced for free in the 3 years of its useful life, for $1k less than a mac book pro. in the end i could not justify spending $1k for an operating system. $250 maybe.
  • jamesbritt 19y ago
    "the rest of the manufactures are behind mac in display tech." I was looking at macbooks, but did not see one that had a 15" screen that ran 1920x1200. I went with a Dell D830, for the 15" WUXGA screen and for the clit mouse (since I find trackpads distracting and less precise than the TrakPoint thingie). I'm (more or less) happily running Kubuntu on it.
• curi 19y ago
  for the GUI, macs are the best, it's not close for the unixy stuff, macs do a good job, but they don't blow linux away macs make lots of stuff more convenient. customizing is no problem for anything especially important. you can also download stuff to change, say, the builtin Dock, if you want. i strongly recommend a mac. but consider a macbook (not pro) if you're worried about price. pro only has a certain limited set of advantages you might not need.
• tx 19y ago
  I switch between Macbook and Thinkpad/Ubuntu almost daily. Why? Because I get bored on either of them fairly quickly :-) I love both of them, but my vote goes towards Ubuntu/Linux (and I mainly code on ThinkPad) for three reasons: 1. Most hackers' software is native on Linux, although nearly all of it exists for OS X. But nothing beats Debian/Ubuntu's aptitude: nearly everything imaginable is a few keystrokes away: can installed and pre-configured in seconds. And guaranteed to "just work". 2. Apple's hardware is no match to IBM's. UltraNav combo kicks ass, and I feel crippled and slowed down when using a touchpad of other laptops, including Apple's. 3. Linux is more flexible. It's not the "sysadmin carp" that some people from the 90s complain about, it's genuine flexibility that comes with choice. There are many more different terminal apps, different ways to manage workspaces, various window management plug-ins, screensavers even! OS X is more commercialized. Besides, I dislike some of Apple's software. iTunes is number one on my hate-list. :-)
  • papersmith 19y ago
    "3. Linux is more flexible. It's not the "sysadmin carp" that some people from the 90s complain about, it's genuine flexibility that comes with choice. There are many more different terminal apps, different ways to manage workspaces, various window management plug-ins, screensavers even! OS X is more commercialized." Agreed. It'd be nice if there's an up-to-date binary repo of MacPorts packages. Flint has apt-get for binary packages, but a lot of them are pretty outdated.
• deleted 19y ago
  [deleted]
• Excedrin 19y ago
  I run Arch Linux on my Macbook Pro. I don't like the hardware at all, it feels cheap in comparison to the Thinkpad it replaced.
• bluelu 19y ago
  Once you have started working with a trackpoint, you will never want to go back to a touchpad. It feels like making a step backwards.
• mk 19y ago
  Aqua looks nicer than any windows manager has to offer. I run Ubuntu for my work desktop, and Debian for servers, but at home I have a macbook and a mac mini running 10.5. Before that I had a powerbook for 4 years. They are all awesome machines. I didn't have to spend time tweaking config settings to try to get the sound card working, or deal with updating and breaking everything. On OS X I've never had to fix something after an update, and sound always works. I'm not dissing any linux distros, but they are truly for hackers that want to spend time tweaking on things getting them to work and dealing with problems. OS X allows me to get more work done because I'm not dealing with those hassles yet I still have vim/emacs/whatever other unix app I want to install. The only complaint I have is that the packaging doesn't seem to be as good as Debian/FreeBSD/Gentoo. Maybe this has changed in the last couple years, but Macports and fink never really worked out all that well for me.
• rcoder 19y ago
  I use a MBP at home, because there's nothing within a light-year of Lightroom (or Aperture, which is pretty much an equivalent package) for RAW photo workflow. If it weren't for that single piece of software, I could switch to Ubuntu/Debian full-time and be quite happy. When I'm at work writing code, it's 98% Linux, with occasional compatibility testing on a Mac or Windows system. Apache, Vim, Ruby, and PostgreSQL all run just as well on Debian as they do on a Mac, and a lot of other packages work much, much better -- plus, they're just an 'apt-get' away.
• jazj 19y ago
  Becauthe they're thabulouth.
• thaumaturgy 19y ago
  There are some things about Macs that drive me a little nuts, same as any other system, but they do have the very most awesomest terminal program in existence. I can spend ten hours straight in ssh terminals on those things, and that makes 'em almost worth the price tag for me.
• natch 19y ago
  1) Productivity. I get a lot more done. 2) Great UNIX implementation. 3) Great file/user/permission organization. 4) Super-easy backups, with no command line switches to remember. 5) Since I have a Mac, my boss steers me toward fun projects like getting started with iPhone development. 6) Feeling of investing in myself, making a commitment to getting a lot done. Turns out the Mac helps a LOT with that.
• maximilian 19y ago
  I think many of you are missing the number 1, in my book, best part about mac laptops: Sleep! It works brilliantly. I close the lid and it sleeps, keeping the RAM alive for up to a week. When I wanna use my computer again I just open it up and within a couple of seconds I'm back at it. I know windows laptops can do something similar, but its not implemented anywhere nearly as well and is a deal breaker for me. I don't have experience with linux laptops, but I imagine its at best as good as windows laptops. I cannot emphasize enough how useful sleep is. I go to the library, open it up, start working, close it. Move to another desk. Open it up, start working, close it. Go to the coffee shop with friend. Have a tea, then open it up to show him a plot from the hw, bring up the plot (without waiting for it to restore...), show buddy, and close the lid again. All this happens with minimal battery loss. That is the biggest reason i love my powerbook. If I was going to get a "windows" laptop, I'd get a thinkpad and put ubuntu on it.
• deleted 19y ago
  [deleted]
• tienshiao 19y ago
  - A solid UNIX underneath. I don't care in the trademark sense. I care in the "beats Cygwin" sense. Real terminals. Most things you need from Linux will build. - A solid GUI on top. Everything is largely cohesive. No half the apps running KDE themes and the other half of the apps running Gnome themes. - Better supported by hardware and software vendors than Linux. No need to mess figure out wireless, Bluetooth, power management, sleep/hibernate multi-button mice, free vs non-free drivers, multi-monitor mirroring/spanning etc issues. It all pretty much just works. Someone said since this is "Hacker News", you shouldn't mind spending some time figuring it out. Bullshit. I don't have enough time to hack the stuff I want to hack, let alone the minutiae I don't want to hack. I work with Linux all day. I don't feel particularly enlightened by knowing how to config X by hand (I am quite excited that we're past that point now) and how to use multiple mouse buttons with imwheel.
• yason 19y ago
  I don't recommend. I don't really. I tried, but I don't. Coming from a long Linux history dating back to mid-nineties, I have used Macs for about three years. My first was a Powerbook P4 and now I've had my MacBookPro for about two years. Now my next laptop is going to be a Linux friendly non-Mac for running Ubuntu exclusively. I liked the smoothness of OS X and how it all fits together. Then little irks surfaced: there's no decent system for installing/uninstalling applications, and absolutely nothing compared to apt in Ubuntu/Debian. Back to manual installations and manual upgrades. Ok, it was the Mac way and I adapted. Though, I started to avoid large software installations because upgrading turned out to be a real hassle. Uninstallation was different every time: it wasn't even as straight-forward as the ad hoc uninstaller mess in Windows. At least you can invoke that from one single place which helps in trying out applications. DarwinPorts was easy but took forever to source-compile even the first installations of some essential applications, so I never upgraded them unless I had to. And I couldn't find everything I wanted from DarwinPorts. And it conflicted with some existing unix system software. Luckily, I could build Emacs locally with --enable-carbon-app from CVS and at least the most important item in my toolchain worked pretty well, and looked nice. Then various other limitations started to kick in. No decent terminal that could use the left Apple key as meta. Nothing major, but it really killed my thumb. Luckily I could configure carbon-Emacs to work like that so I started using terminals inside Emacs buffers... In a way I was in no way against that. Eventually crappy window management started to stress me. I couldn't get my highly desired focus-follows-mouse from anywhere (or by installing any 3rd party utility!), or even keep certain windows on top while typing into a lower window. But I adapted and changed my working habits, trying to compromise with tricky virtual desktop configuration (with VirtuaDesktop or something). Then utf-8 filenames between Linux and OS X turned out incompatible: Mac normalizes them and Linux doesn't. Boom, lots of problems with my version control running on a Linux server when filenames changed by themselves. I ended up renaming some of my essential files to plain ASCII, but I really didn't like the way where I was going. And I don't even want to start with FileVault whose only purpose seemed to be corrupting my files and making logins take like half an hour after reboots. It may work for a few dozen Word documents and some configuration files but putting a heavy home directory of several gigabytes on it just doesn't work. Eventually, the best desktop Unix didn't do unix for me well enough. I was basically having a huge hassle trying to run on OS X the applications I'd run on a Linux system. There was the desktop which was pretty worthless given that I couldn't run my stuff as easily as on Linux/X11. And try compile ogg123 on OS X! It worked on the P4 (Panther) but I never found a good binary nor working source code for MBP (Tiger). How's that relevant? The answer is cplay, the ultimate mp3+ogg+mod+sid player for any decent unix. Cplay is compatible with my directory-rather-than-id3-tag based music collection and it supports these exotic like playsid and mikmod players. I never got it fully working on OS X. There was a pivotal issue, which I can't remember now, but which caused OS X to start sucking so badly that I installed Refit and put Ubuntu Dapper on my MBP at once. It had something to do with some bizarre software restrictions imposed by the OS X. I had the usual hassle of configuring the Linux to work on the relatively alien Apple hardware but it took a day or two and then I had a Linux system that could hibernate and sleep just like OS X. I didn't compile a kernel for that, FYI. And at the same time I had all my good old applications working out of the box from Ubuntu's apt repositories. Installing the essential packages was a breeze and I got mostly the same desktop back that I had abandoned 2-3 years ago. System maintenance and hassle went immediately to zero. Filenames started working again, cross-installations. The unix had returned. Funnily enough, the same hardware has worked flawlessly for almost half a year now, running Linux. Sure, some parts don't work. Webcam - I don't need it. Most notably the fglrx driver sucks, failing at suspend/hibernate. I have to run Xorg with vesa and that doesn't give me 1440x900 but 1152x864, but it's still good enough. As a reply to the OP: I don't know. Your mileage will vary: you won't miss out on the Mac unless you try it first. Then decide.
• mickt 19y ago
  If I'd never used Linux I wouldn't know as much as I so know about OS's, if I'd used a Mac all these years I'd probably know naught (or a lot less). But, that's part of the value of using a Mac, you don't need to know about the OS which is probably a good point for non-techie or non-geekie users. I don't have a Mac but do think they're cool, hardware that works, OS that works, but I'd be concerned about the lock-in that comes from using proprietary software that comes with it; such as managing my 12GB photograph collection.