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For the curious, the data center is in Montreal according to the press release: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20161208006034/en/Amazon-Web-Services-Clou

For the curious, the data center is in Montreal according to the press release: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20161208006034/en/Amazon-Web-Services-Cloud-Customers-Data-Centers http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20161208006034/en/Amaz...

api 10y ago
OVH has a monster data center there too. The region has very cheap power due to a lot of hydroelectric available.
- gaius 10y ago
  OVH is French-speaking too, so they will probably have the advantage for now.
  - an_d_rew 10y ago
    Not Quebecois-French, though, LOL...
- faeriol 10y ago
  The region should have become the Datacenter capital of North-America... Cold temperatures, Cheap (and renewable) power...
  - notheguyouthink 10y ago
    > Should have Is there a reason it didn't? (i'm not "in the know")
    - ihsw 10y ago
      Shit internet up until recently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Internet_Exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Internet_Exchange
      - chipperyman573 10y ago
        40GB/s??? How does amazon expect to put an entire region in there and to share the 40GB/s with the other hosts already up there (OVH)?
        otoburb 10y ago
        If we believe the Cacti graphs, over the past several weeks the Montréal QIX peaked at 50Gbps[1]. Your comment implies that the QIX might be running over a mere 40Gbps link, but presumably their aggregate link capacity is (much?) higher than that. [1] http://www.qix.ca/en/qix/network http://www.qix.ca/en/qix/network
        antaviana 10y ago
        Amazon connections between regions are owned by Amazon. Only last mile traffic would need to go to an Exchange.
        rgbrenner 10y ago
        "averaging 40gbps" != "maximum 40gbps" Also, qix puts their member list online, and Amazon has a 10gbps port: http://www.qix.ca/en/members/membership http://www.qix.ca/en/members/membership From 2013: "deployed over 180 Gbps of capacity into the exchange." https://www.cologix.com/pdf/QIX-Case-Study.pdf https://www.cologix.com/pdf/QIX-Case-Study.pdf
        mcmatterson 10y ago
        That's 40gbps of voluntary (technically settlement free, but not in the usual meaning of the term) peering, not paid transit. Paid transit numbers are several orders of magnitude higher, and total traffic numbers are unknown.
      - faeriol 10y ago
        Yes that has been a problem... Let me tell you, everybody would have been investing in the infrastructure if there had been a social desire to actually attract datacenters... Nobody will invest in good internet lines if the only thing to go around is middle-aged people who think the internet is useless...
    - faeriol 10y ago
      They put business people in charge of the Electrical company instead of engineers... Service quality went down, new projects were put on hold, and investments in new technology was basically killed... Prices went up too. Quebec has nationalized electricity and really missed the boat for newer technology.
    - walrus01 10y ago
      until very recently the competition for serious backbone IP carriers in major canadian cities (vancouver, calgary, montreal, toronto) was terrible and much higher priced compared to buying IP transit in a place like seattle, chicago, north virginia, NYC, los angeles, etc.
  - mistermann 10y ago
    Any idea what would a data center pay per year for cooling? Would it be worthwhile to build in a cooler location where cooling would be free in the winter? And maybe even (somehow) freeze water in the winter and melt it in the summer to provide additional "free" cooling? (Might be a bit of a stretch)
    - faeriol 10y ago
      Now for cooling, the montreal region has subzero temps from lateish november to somthing like almost april... Apparently Wikipedia has a half decent article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_in_Canada Not sure about that freeze water in the winter and use it in the summer idea at such a low latitude... But yes, using an artificial lake (or even a real one... given the population does not go bersek about protecting the wildlife) as a heat echanger might be an idea. Lake would most likely come close to freezing in the winter (need to engineer this properly) but in the summer you could get water from the depths to provide extra cooling power. Idea, put a beach there, get cheers from the population. Other idea: run a river from up north in your datacenter and you've got a nice cooling strategy for basically... free. Better idea yet... Build the datacenter on top of the hydroelectric damn... Last thing to do is to run the lines... Not like Quebec had not mastered running lines over hundreds of kilometers anyways, they've been importing power from the north for decades.
      - ficklepickle 10y ago
        Water is most dense around 4°C. Accordingly the bottom of a large body like the great lakes is near that temperature year round. This is part of the reason why fish can survive in lakes that freeze over in the winter. This is exploited in deep water source cooling [1]. Such a thing is implemented in Lake Ontario since 2004. Very cool imo :) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_water_source_cooling https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_water_source_cooling
      - therein 10y ago
        I got an even better idea. Why not build the datacenter inside the hydroelectric dam? You get electricity from the turbines and cooling from the artificial lake at what's likely to be a high altitude. Now all you need it rock solid connectivity but you've got an incredibly small carbon footprint.
  - simonebrunozzi 10y ago
    You need proximity to a ton of people to become the Datacenter capital; I doubt Montreal qualifies.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - smathieu 10y ago
      Montreal is the 19th largest metropolitan area in North America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_metropolitan_areas_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_metropo... It's also very close to the American North East for data transfer...
    - ficklepickle 10y ago
      600km(~360 miles) by road from NYC... Could possibly be worthwhile if the energy is significantly cheaper* * Pure speculation on my part
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - dghughes 10y ago
      I think the GTA has as many people ~8 million as all of Quebec ~8 million.
      - betaby 10y ago
        No, GTA is ~6M and Greater Montreal ~4 GTA is not that big in terms of population and very sparse comparable with other big metros.
- wyck 10y ago
  OVH is actually located right inside a hydro dam about 15 minutes away from the city: http://www.hydroquebec.com/visit/monteregie/beauharnois.html http://www.hydroquebec.com/visit/monteregie/beauharnois.html
  - dx034 10y ago
    Where do you see that info? Couldn't find anything that they're actually in the dam, rather very close by?
    - wyck 10y ago
      Its mentioned on the wiki page , and several trade magazines about servers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauharnois,_Quebec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauharnois,_Quebec It's on the dam's land and about 300 meters from the actual dam itself.
richerlariviere 10y ago
It is located in Montreal downtown
- mattkrause 10y ago
  Really? There were rumors that it would be in Baie D’Urfe, which is on the southwest tip of the island, fairly far from downtown Montreal. Here's a job posting for "data center security" which seems to be located out there: https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/452269 https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/452269
- dgemm 10y ago
  There are multiple sites, and if it's anything like other regions, then one at most would be downtown
  - richerlariviere 10y ago
    https://twitter.com/affairesmtl/status/807221404961800193 https://twitter.com/affairesmtl/status/807221404961800193
    - dgemm 10y ago
      You can read about what constitutes a region in the AWS documentation, and it's not one building downtown. Full disclosure: I work there.
count 10y ago
FWIW, it's not 'a data center'. It's at least 3 a few miles apart from each other. They might (probably do) still end up in Montreal, depending on where those city/county limits lie.
- smashed 10y ago
  According to [1] it seems there are 2 az. 1: https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global-infrastructure/ https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global-infrastructure/
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - discodave 10y ago
    S3, Dynamo and some other servicea always have three AZs, sometimes they only expose 2 EC2 AZs to save money in new/small regions. James Hamilton just announced that they were going to stop doing this but I guess this region was already under construction.
    - sudhirj 10y ago
      Aurora requires 3 as well, in order to establish quorum for leader elections in case of network partitions.
    - smashed 10y ago
      Makes sense, thanks for correcting me.

api 10y ago

OVH has a monster data center there too. The region has very cheap power due to a lot of hydroelectric available.

gaius 10y ago
OVH is French-speaking too, so they will probably have the advantage for now.
- an_d_rew 10y ago
  Not Quebecois-French, though, LOL...
faeriol 10y ago
The region should have become the Datacenter capital of North-America... Cold temperatures, Cheap (and renewable) power...
- notheguyouthink 10y ago
  > Should have Is there a reason it didn't? (i'm not "in the know")
  - ihsw 10y ago
    Shit internet up until recently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Internet_Exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Internet_Exchange
    - chipperyman573 10y ago
      40GB/s??? How does amazon expect to put an entire region in there and to share the 40GB/s with the other hosts already up there (OVH)?
      - otoburb 10y ago
        If we believe the Cacti graphs, over the past several weeks the Montréal QIX peaked at 50Gbps[1]. Your comment implies that the QIX might be running over a mere 40Gbps link, but presumably their aggregate link capacity is (much?) higher than that. [1] http://www.qix.ca/en/qix/network http://www.qix.ca/en/qix/network
      - antaviana 10y ago
        Amazon connections between regions are owned by Amazon. Only last mile traffic would need to go to an Exchange.
      - rgbrenner 10y ago
        "averaging 40gbps" != "maximum 40gbps" Also, qix puts their member list online, and Amazon has a 10gbps port: http://www.qix.ca/en/members/membership http://www.qix.ca/en/members/membership From 2013: "deployed over 180 Gbps of capacity into the exchange." https://www.cologix.com/pdf/QIX-Case-Study.pdf https://www.cologix.com/pdf/QIX-Case-Study.pdf
      - mcmatterson 10y ago
        That's 40gbps of voluntary (technically settlement free, but not in the usual meaning of the term) peering, not paid transit. Paid transit numbers are several orders of magnitude higher, and total traffic numbers are unknown.
    - faeriol 10y ago
      Yes that has been a problem... Let me tell you, everybody would have been investing in the infrastructure if there had been a social desire to actually attract datacenters... Nobody will invest in good internet lines if the only thing to go around is middle-aged people who think the internet is useless...
  - faeriol 10y ago
    They put business people in charge of the Electrical company instead of engineers... Service quality went down, new projects were put on hold, and investments in new technology was basically killed... Prices went up too. Quebec has nationalized electricity and really missed the boat for newer technology.
  - walrus01 10y ago
    until very recently the competition for serious backbone IP carriers in major canadian cities (vancouver, calgary, montreal, toronto) was terrible and much higher priced compared to buying IP transit in a place like seattle, chicago, north virginia, NYC, los angeles, etc.
- mistermann 10y ago
  Any idea what would a data center pay per year for cooling? Would it be worthwhile to build in a cooler location where cooling would be free in the winter? And maybe even (somehow) freeze water in the winter and melt it in the summer to provide additional "free" cooling? (Might be a bit of a stretch)
  - faeriol 10y ago
    Now for cooling, the montreal region has subzero temps from lateish november to somthing like almost april... Apparently Wikipedia has a half decent article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_in_Canada Not sure about that freeze water in the winter and use it in the summer idea at such a low latitude... But yes, using an artificial lake (or even a real one... given the population does not go bersek about protecting the wildlife) as a heat echanger might be an idea. Lake would most likely come close to freezing in the winter (need to engineer this properly) but in the summer you could get water from the depths to provide extra cooling power. Idea, put a beach there, get cheers from the population. Other idea: run a river from up north in your datacenter and you've got a nice cooling strategy for basically... free. Better idea yet... Build the datacenter on top of the hydroelectric damn... Last thing to do is to run the lines... Not like Quebec had not mastered running lines over hundreds of kilometers anyways, they've been importing power from the north for decades.
    - ficklepickle 10y ago
      Water is most dense around 4°C. Accordingly the bottom of a large body like the great lakes is near that temperature year round. This is part of the reason why fish can survive in lakes that freeze over in the winter. This is exploited in deep water source cooling [1]. Such a thing is implemented in Lake Ontario since 2004. Very cool imo :) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_water_source_cooling https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_water_source_cooling
    - therein 10y ago
      I got an even better idea. Why not build the datacenter inside the hydroelectric dam? You get electricity from the turbines and cooling from the artificial lake at what's likely to be a high altitude. Now all you need it rock solid connectivity but you've got an incredibly small carbon footprint.
- simonebrunozzi 10y ago
  You need proximity to a ton of people to become the Datacenter capital; I doubt Montreal qualifies.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - smathieu 10y ago
    Montreal is the 19th largest metropolitan area in North America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_metropolitan_areas_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_metropo... It's also very close to the American North East for data transfer...
  - ficklepickle 10y ago
    600km(~360 miles) by road from NYC... Could possibly be worthwhile if the energy is significantly cheaper* * Pure speculation on my part
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dghughes 10y ago
    I think the GTA has as many people ~8 million as all of Quebec ~8 million.
    - betaby 10y ago
      No, GTA is ~6M and Greater Montreal ~4 GTA is not that big in terms of population and very sparse comparable with other big metros.
wyck 10y ago
OVH is actually located right inside a hydro dam about 15 minutes away from the city: http://www.hydroquebec.com/visit/monteregie/beauharnois.html http://www.hydroquebec.com/visit/monteregie/beauharnois.html
- dx034 10y ago
  Where do you see that info? Couldn't find anything that they're actually in the dam, rather very close by?
  - wyck 10y ago
    Its mentioned on the wiki page , and several trade magazines about servers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauharnois,_Quebec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauharnois,_Quebec It's on the dam's land and about 300 meters from the actual dam itself.

richerlariviere 10y ago

It is located in Montreal downtown

mattkrause 10y ago
Really? There were rumors that it would be in Baie D’Urfe, which is on the southwest tip of the island, fairly far from downtown Montreal. Here's a job posting for "data center security" which seems to be located out there: https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/452269 https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/452269
dgemm 10y ago
There are multiple sites, and if it's anything like other regions, then one at most would be downtown
- richerlariviere 10y ago
  https://twitter.com/affairesmtl/status/807221404961800193 https://twitter.com/affairesmtl/status/807221404961800193
  - dgemm 10y ago
    You can read about what constitutes a region in the AWS documentation, and it's not one building downtown. Full disclosure: I work there.

count 10y ago

FWIW, it's not 'a data center'. It's at least 3 a few miles apart from each other. They might (probably do) still end up in Montreal, depending on where those city/county limits lie.

smashed 10y ago
According to [1] it seems there are 2 az. 1: https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global-infrastructure/ https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global-infrastructure/
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- discodave 10y ago
  S3, Dynamo and some other servicea always have three AZs, sometimes they only expose 2 EC2 AZs to save money in new/small regions. James Hamilton just announced that they were going to stop doing this but I guess this region was already under construction.
  - sudhirj 10y ago
    Aurora requires 3 as well, in order to establish quorum for leader elections in case of network partitions.
  - smashed 10y ago
    Makes sense, thanks for correcting me.