5 ms·

A Nasal Spray That Was Supposed to Replace Sleep

44 points by Hooke 10y ago

ryanSrich 10y ago
TL;DR - the drug still exists, but the headlines were highly editorialized. It's not a sleep replacement, rather a treatment of narcolepsy. Narcoleptic patients aren't using it because drug companies won't make it. Drug companies won't make it because there's no money in it.
- johnhenry 10y ago
  1 point by johnhenry 0 minutes ago | parent | edit | delete | on: A Nasal Spray That Was Supposed to Replace Sleep I had a teacher who was narcoleptic -- sure it was funny when he would fall asleep in the middle of class, but when his wife died he wasn't in a position to take care of all five of his children, so his 17 year old daughter had to forego her dreams of college in order to take care of her siblings. This probably isn't the best venue to say this, but it really saddens me when people's lives are ruined because there isn't a profit in helping them.
  - baq 10y ago
    i agree wholeheartedly, but the next comment by boona ("Considering it costs between $100 million to $1 billion to get a drug approved by the FDA (depending on the study you look at), I can see why they wouldn't touch it.") highlights the issue: profit is only an incentive to do it; the initial cost is there either way and somebody has to cover it. if it's not private companies, who would that be...?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - amitdeshwar 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institutes_of_Health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institutes_of_Health
    - gozur88 10y ago
      That's what the Orphan Drug Act of 1983 was all about. In theory companies have enough incentive to produce these kinds of drugs.
- boona 10y ago
  > Drug companies won't make it because there's no money in it. Considering it costs between $100 million to $1 billion to get a drug approved by the FDA (depending on the study you look at), I can see why they wouldn't touch it.
  - brazzledazzle 10y ago
    In situations like this the FDA should be permitted to grant a temporary monopoly so it becomes worth the investment.
    - anilgulecha 10y ago
      Isn't that a "patent"?
      - brazzledazzle 10y ago
        Yes, but this would only apply to medicine/treatment and only in cases where it isn't something that can be patented.
rudolf0 10y ago
You can buy some from Ceretropic: https://www.ceretropic.com/orexin-a https://www.ceretropic.com/orexin-a (Not affiliated with them in any way. Have used their products before and find them to be reputable.)
- gwern 10y ago
  Ceretropic only just announced its availability: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/5h1mge/its_here_p21/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/5h1mge/its_here... I assume this is why the sudden renewal of interest and a January article on it showing up on HN...
  - jcoffland 10y ago
    You've linked to the wrong reddit. That one is about a substance called P21.
    - rudolf0 10y ago
      Orexin is also discussed in that thread. Ceretropic announced the release of P21 and Orexin at the same time.
- tmearnest 10y ago
  5mg/$99? What is the standard dosage?
msane 10y ago
Interesting story, but meta-clickbait.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
SamBam 10y ago
A few years ago there was all this talk about the discovery on the effects of sleep on the glymphatic system, where the brain is able to flush out metabolic toxins that build up during the day. [1][2] I remember one of the things I read was a scientist saying that this might be one of the, if not the, primary functions of sleep, and that, now that we know what it was, we might be able to invent drugs that target it and allow the process to happen without sleep. This would allow people to remain awake without the fatigue, bleary-headedness, or risk of death, that might all be caused by these toxins. (Learning and memory might still be affected if you don't sleep at all, of course.) I don't know whether people are still researching that -- it was only fairly recent after all, so no surprise that we haven't heard much more. 1. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/10/sleep-ultimate-brainwasher http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/10/sleep-ultimate-brainw... 2. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sleep-clears-brain https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sle...
- devoply 10y ago
  Why don't we change society so we won't have to do this? Why change the man. At the end of the day I think our civilization is highly misanthropic. It really hates people and having to deal with all their human needs.
- ue_ 10y ago
  I do not support this happening within the current capitalist system. It will lead to even more exploitation of workers, especially in countries with labour laws that aren't as strict. It favors workaholics over people with good balance. Some may regard this as a silly objection, but arguably worker exploitation is the largest problem, with the exception of climate change, in the world today. It is important to consider social effects.
  - kahrkunne 10y ago
    Woah calm down there Karl, I'm pretty sure we have a ban on politics here this month.
    - 10y ago
agumonkey 10y ago
Or you could do this simple procedure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kern

44 points by Hooke 10y ago

TL;DR - the drug still exists, but the headlines were highly editorialized. It's not a sleep replacement, rather a treatment of narcolepsy. Narcoleptic patients aren't using it because drug companies won't make it. Drug companies won't make it because there's no money in it.

johnhenry 10y ago
1 point by johnhenry 0 minutes ago | parent | edit | delete | on: A Nasal Spray That Was Supposed to Replace Sleep I had a teacher who was narcoleptic -- sure it was funny when he would fall asleep in the middle of class, but when his wife died he wasn't in a position to take care of all five of his children, so his 17 year old daughter had to forego her dreams of college in order to take care of her siblings. This probably isn't the best venue to say this, but it really saddens me when people's lives are ruined because there isn't a profit in helping them.
- baq 10y ago
  i agree wholeheartedly, but the next comment by boona ("Considering it costs between $100 million to $1 billion to get a drug approved by the FDA (depending on the study you look at), I can see why they wouldn't touch it.") highlights the issue: profit is only an incentive to do it; the initial cost is there either way and somebody has to cover it. if it's not private companies, who would that be...?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - amitdeshwar 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institutes_of_Health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institutes_of_Health
  - gozur88 10y ago
    That's what the Orphan Drug Act of 1983 was all about. In theory companies have enough incentive to produce these kinds of drugs.
boona 10y ago
> Drug companies won't make it because there's no money in it. Considering it costs between $100 million to $1 billion to get a drug approved by the FDA (depending on the study you look at), I can see why they wouldn't touch it.
- brazzledazzle 10y ago
  In situations like this the FDA should be permitted to grant a temporary monopoly so it becomes worth the investment.
  - anilgulecha 10y ago
    Isn't that a "patent"?
    - brazzledazzle 10y ago
      Yes, but this would only apply to medicine/treatment and only in cases where it isn't something that can be patented.

rudolf0 10y ago

You can buy some from Ceretropic: https://www.ceretropic.com/orexin-a https://www.ceretropic.com/orexin-a (Not affiliated with them in any way. Have used their products before and find them to be reputable.)

gwern 10y ago
Ceretropic only just announced its availability: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/5h1mge/its_here_p21/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/5h1mge/its_here... I assume this is why the sudden renewal of interest and a January article on it showing up on HN...
- jcoffland 10y ago
  You've linked to the wrong reddit. That one is about a substance called P21.
  - rudolf0 10y ago
    Orexin is also discussed in that thread. Ceretropic announced the release of P21 and Orexin at the same time.
tmearnest 10y ago
5mg/$99? What is the standard dosage?

msane 10y ago

Interesting story, but meta-clickbait.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

SamBam 10y ago

A few years ago there was all this talk about the discovery on the effects of sleep on the glymphatic system, where the brain is able to flush out metabolic toxins that build up during the day. [1][2] I remember one of the things I read was a scientist saying that this might be one of the, if not the, primary functions of sleep, and that, now that we know what it was, we might be able to invent drugs that target it and allow the process to happen without sleep. This would allow people to remain awake without the fatigue, bleary-headedness, or risk of death, that might all be caused by these toxins. (Learning and memory might still be affected if you don't sleep at all, of course.) I don't know whether people are still researching that -- it was only fairly recent after all, so no surprise that we haven't heard much more. 1. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/10/sleep-ultimate-brainwasher http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/10/sleep-ultimate-brainw... 2. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sleep-clears-brain https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-sle...

devoply 10y ago
Why don't we change society so we won't have to do this? Why change the man. At the end of the day I think our civilization is highly misanthropic. It really hates people and having to deal with all their human needs.
ue_ 10y ago
I do not support this happening within the current capitalist system. It will lead to even more exploitation of workers, especially in countries with labour laws that aren't as strict. It favors workaholics over people with good balance. Some may regard this as a silly objection, but arguably worker exploitation is the largest problem, with the exception of climate change, in the world today. It is important to consider social effects.
- kahrkunne 10y ago
  Woah calm down there Karl, I'm pretty sure we have a ban on politics here this month.
  - 10y ago

agumonkey 10y ago

Or you could do this simple procedure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kern