19 ms·

An Ode to Linux Desktop Users Everywhere

194 points by levlaz 10y ago

aamederen 10y ago
Unfortunately, this is true, we have all been there.
- levlaz 10y ago
  I started writing a post about the latest addition to my ~/.bash_profile file: ``` # Restart Network Driver alias n="sudo modprobe -r ath10k_pci && sudo modprobe ath10k_pci" ``` And ended up stealing the Apple ad instead. Much more fun. :)
  - andreicon 10y ago
    does stuff in ~/.bash_profile also get executed when you return from suspend/hibernation or rather just at first boot?
    - levlaz 10y ago
      Oh no, this is just an alias called `n` that I execute when the drivers are borked. Every other time that my laptop resumes from hibernate my wifi doesn't work. There is probably a much better solution here, but this one works for me.
      - andreicon 10y ago
        i went through the same pains with my hp stream 11 this helped: http://askubuntu.com/questions/632719/my-wifi-drops-the-connection-after-a-few-minutes-realtek8723be http://askubuntu.com/questions/632719/my-wifi-drops-the-conn... the fwlps=0 option disables the sleep feature altogether which might reduce battery life, but installing tlp gave me ~2 hrs extra per charge
        levlaz 10y ago
        Nice! Thanks for sharing that. I think that AskUbuntu thread is a living testimonial to what I am trying to express through my trolly blog post. I am honestly proud to be in a community of users who would read that thread and not reinstall Windows. It takes a special breed.
        andreicon 10y ago
        i'm reading your "about" page and thinking... what have i been doing all my life? i've followed you on twitter. keep writing good content!
        levlaz 10y ago
        Wow thanks so much! Best compliment I've received on HN :) Cheers!
  - skykooler 10y ago
    I had a similar alias in my eeePC (broadcom wifi drivers, which needed to be restarted after every boot). And I remember days of printing out xorg.conf documentation and random help threads at the library, in the hopes that I could finally convince nvidia drivers to give me graphics again. That said, I'm glad that nowadays my Linux problems tend to be more along the lines of "notifications aren't making noise when a video is playing" and not system-breaking bugs.
staticelf 10y ago
I use desktop linux on my work computer, it barely works and I have some issues. Although it's red hat enterprise which is running a lot of old shit. I think using a friendlier distro like Ubuntu or Fedora would probably be a lot better and give a much better experience.
- kusmi 10y ago
  I have Centos on my laptop and the Nvidia drivers work, steam works, 3 displays run flawlessly, SELinux is enforcing (!), but I'll be damned if I ever get the network printer to work.
- to3m 10y ago
  I use Ubuntu on my work PC. - had to buy a 2nd GPU to get 3 monitors to work - GPU driver won't drive my 2560x1440 monitor at the max res - popup volume control pops up every minute or so (and sound pops and stutters a bit each time this happens) - when waking from sleep, TTY works immediately, but GUI takes about 30 seconds to appear - something crashes on every boot, but it doesn't tell me what (I dutifully submit a crash report) - any time I drag something in Firefox (text, image, tab, etc.), Firefox crashes USB throughput and FS performance are very good though, and 3d, wifi and suspend-to-disk do work! (Whatever the root cause of all of these things, be it Linux per se or some other issue, the fact remains that I don't have any of these problems on Windows. Of course, I don't get the smashing filing system speed either...)
  - loudmax 10y ago
    Sounds like problems with the video card drivers. In Linux, it pays to research how well hardware is supported before you buy it, especially for video and wifi. Even then, you may still benefit from looking at alternative drivers or seeing if there are xorg.conf or kernel boot time options that resolve those issues. Whether it's worth the trouble of tracking down arcane options to get your system working optimally is up to you. For most people it's not worth the effort, so there are relatively few of us running Linux on the desktop. If you're willing to put in the time and effort (and you happen to have compatible hardware) it is possible to get a system that matches or exceeds proprietary software desktops. Just be prepared to start all over again when you upgrade to the next version of Ubuntu.
earthly10x 10y ago
I've been Linux on the desktop since 93' and especially since VMWare came out.
- erelde 10y ago
  Do you mean you're using Linux as guests on another host OS ? Or do you mean you're using Linux as hosts for other machines ?
wiredfool 10y ago
I think status quo is a good thing. Linux users don't want stuff to break for no good reason. I say this after reading the article, then hoping that the new kernel install doesn't bring back the video tearing/blinking when moving the mouse from screen 0 to 1.
- module0000 10y ago
  At least we can downgrade our kernels without re-install-and-recover-from-time-machine though, but otherwise yea :)
  - aruggirello 10y ago
    Speaking of Time Machine, I use Timeshift to do backups on Ubuntu. It's a GUI rsnapshot-based tool, and will backup/restore the full system, including boot sector, so it's perfect for a desktop user. Backing up your machine(s) regularly is important, regardless of the number of kernel images you have available. Because sh*t happens. :)
- digi_owl 10y ago
  > I think status quo is a good thing. Linux users don't want stuff to break for no good reason. Sadly Linux (user space) devs are stuck in CADT mode. So while the kernel may behave, anything above is a constant, relentless, churn of code.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
wiz21c 10y ago
My wife is on KDE, kids are on KDE every day (although they spend their time mostly inside firefox). I use openbox exclusively. It's debian stable (testing was a bit too stressful to update every week, I'm getting old :-)) Everything works : printing works (provided the driver is flawed); network works, cd burner works, Nvidia card works. electronic ID card works, USB stuff works. I even use a pretty old scanner and a pretty old drawing tablet; both work. The PC is 7 years old. I've added hard drives, changed video card and moved to SSD drives. The only pain point is that somehow, sometimes the PC doesn't shutdown because it has received a wake-on-lan packet.
- thecatspaw 10y ago
  > sometimes the PC doesn't shutdown because it has received a wake-on-lan packet. you should be able to fix that through the bios
cdevs 10y ago
Running kali and then mint is when I first had to experience all this hunting down the nomodeset option, ubuntu was fine but can flip out on wifi after standby which I think my first goto fix was Sudo ifconfig wlan0 down then Sudo ifconfig wlan0 up. Cheers to the crazy ones running a low ram hogging distro and less background processes so they can carry on a $200 i3 cpu / 4gig ram laptop for many years beyond windows and Mac users.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Heh, i think the motherboard in the desktop i am typing this on is 10 years old soon. At least that seems to be the case based on the copyright year given for the bios on each boot.
zeroviscosity 10y ago
I don't think anything on HN has ever made me as happy as this. Really captures the experience - both the frustrations and the joys.
- levlaz 10y ago
  Wow, thanks so much for this amazing compliment. :)
donquichotte 10y ago
Last fall I bought a Thinkpad T540s that came with Windows 10 + Lenovo Crapware and a sound driver that did not work out of the box. I installed Ubuntu on it and everything, including multiple displays, just worked. I didn't even have to recompile the kernel to get WiFi running.
- rglullis 10y ago
  This "Linux has too many issues on the desktop" thing got old already. To be precise, it is as old as Ubuntu 12.04. I have more than a handful of people that had PCs that "got too slow" and wanted to get a new PC or a Mac. I'd tell them to get an SSD. When they did, I'd go take a look at their computers, install the SSD myself and in less than an hour I'd guide them (not do it myself, guide) how to install Ubuntu and set up printers, scanners and which programs could substitute whatever they were used to use on Windows. The hardware was never a problem: HP printers, Canon all-in-ones, onboard wi-fi, you name it. The one thing that is still sub-par on Linux is power management, so batteries do suffer some abuse compared with other OSes. But for slightly older laptops with removable/replaceable batteries and desktops, I fail to see how Windows or MacOS is better in any way for the casual PC user. I think the ones complaining about hardware/configuration issues with Linux today are the ones pushing the envelope and trying to do things that will be tricky even on Windows/MacOS.
  - mverwijs 10y ago
    > To be precise, it is as old as Ubuntu 12.04. I see what you did there. :)
  - levlaz 10y ago
    Maybe, if you pick the right hardware life is good. I picked up an Acer V3 which is an awesome machine except the network dies when you resume from suspend (which then prompted this troll-ey blog post :))
loudmax 10y ago
For anyone who misses it, this is a reference to Apple's 1997 Think Different marketing campaign. The original ode is here: http://www.thecrazyones.it/spot-en.html http://www.thecrazyones.it/spot-en.html I'd forgotten about this campaign, and I would have missed the reference myself, but I just happened to listen to an audiobook chapter from Steve Jobs' biography yesterday.
- levlaz 10y ago
  > For anyone who misses it, this is a reference to Apple's 1997 Think Different marketing campaign. Yes, thank you! This post was careful crafted trolling. I am glad the not so subtle plagiarism was completely lost. ;)
  - Anthony-G 10y ago
    As a happy Lubuntu user, I interpreted it as an homage to the original Think Different quote. On a related note, the Atlantic has an interesting article on the Think Different advertising campaign: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/true-history-apples-think-different-campaign/334256/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/true-...
throw2016 10y ago
I current use Unity on Ubuntu 16.04 as my main system and I prefer it to my macbook pro and Windows desktop. Its smooth, fast and minimal. For someone who has used Linux desktops for more than 15 years it has come a long way. Gnome and Kde are both good but Unity provides a rare minimalism and polish on Linux. But for those who need specialized apps that app determines their work machine.
- erelde 10y ago
  If you're after minimalism, you should take a look at /r/unixporn (kinda SFW despite the name). Not necessarily the most efficient DEs or WMs, but it looks damn good. Some people seem to get a sharp looking Unity. I use bspwm on ArchLinux myself.
drewg123 10y ago
How about *nix desktop? I miss the days where a TWM was "enough". I started with TWM on Xterms and DECstations, moving up to CTWM on DEC alphas. I finally switched away from CTWM around the year 2000, due to it not supporting some kind of modern nonsense that web browsers wanted. Thankfully, KDE let me configure most of the keybindings in my .twmrc file & retain my muscle memory. Gnome rejected a patch that I sent them to allow the same config there, so I've been using KDE ever since. I ran FreeBSD for years as a desktop and always thought Linux was the gold standard for things like KDE. First FreeBSD/alpha in the early 2000s, and then FreeBSD/i386 on a P4. I remember getting sick of things "not working", switching to Ubuntu, and realizing that things were just as flaky there. So after ~6 years on a linux desktop, I'm back to FreeBSD.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Which desktop technology though - at one point (~1990) I had a login menu that prompted me to select Sunview, X or NeWS. TWM was the first X window manager I used, I remember spending ages getting it just so - just in time for a newer fancier one to come out (probably olwm in OpenWindows) - liked mwm for a few years as well. Must be something that I grew out of as I don't spend that much time personalizing computing environments these days.
  - jstanley 10y ago
    > Must be something that I grew out of as I don't spend that much time personalizing computing environments these days. I've had the same experience. I now find it easier to adapt myself to the defaults than to change the defaults every time I'm somewhere new.
  - drewg123 10y ago
    The Sun NewS stuff was some kind of postscript based rendering system that ran in parallel to X with an X server sharing the screen -- kind of like how X works on MacOSX today). I stayed away from it because I used mostly X windows terminals & DECstations. There was very little Sun hardware I could sit in front of in my formative years as an undergrad in the late 80s / early 90s. I kept the same basic customizations for years, mostly around focus-follows-mouse and what mouse buttons + key combos moved, resize, iconify windows. My problem was that the key things my muscle memory depended on were fairly hard to configure in most things, and by that time, it was too late to change my muscle memory. Eg, I have this hard-coded in my brain: Button1=m :w|f : f.function "move-raise" Button2=m :w|f : f.resize Button3=m :w|f : f.iconify (this means alt with mouse button 1 = raise window to front, and move it, alt+mouse2 = resize, alt+mouse3 = iconify) So changing to anything else that didn't easily allow this customization was painful. I used a Mac for almost a year, and lived in the X environment so much that I went back to a *nix desktop. I kept doing crazy thing when I moved my mouse to another window, and the focus did not follow the mouse. So I'd start typing code in an Xemacs window, and i'd be deleting or forwarding mail. Argh.
smashu 10y ago
my ThinkCentre home desktop runs on Ubuntu for 3 years, my Dell laptop runs on Fedora for 1 year. All smooth ;)
- grp 10y ago
  and my Vaio laptop runs voidlinux for 2 years, after arch for 4 years and fedora for 3! Still booting in less time than the bios needs to. :)
berntb 10y ago
Funny but really out of date. :-) I used to do some sysadmin stuff a long time ago, but am losing my UNIX/Linux skills -- because the Ubuntu (and follow ups) desktop just works with very little trouble, since lots of years. It seems I only use apt-get these days. Maybe I am just careful when I buy hardware, I don't know. That said, right now I am irritated and will soon have to download and read sources, because of problems getting an ipsec configuration to work on Mint 18. (It worked copying it from Ubuntu to Mint 17.3). But I really can't remember the previous time I broke out the source. Edit: It seems most people have the same experience as me. (I should also add to my claims of only needing apt-get, that it often work better if I get printer drivers from the manufacturer and not from the distro.)
smhg 10y ago
Related to Ubuntu's Unity (might apply to other environments): I remember last time I switched from Windows (~3 years ago) it was once again harsh on my eyes. The way things (fonts?) are rendered is just different. What made me survive the first days was switching the default font to Roboto Condensed (of Google fame) [1] with: sudo apt-get install fonts-roboto unity-tweak-tool I wouldn't want to trade it for any other OS currently. It just looks so good. But I guess it is more because I got used to it than anything else. If you find what works for you (right hardware, right kernel), issues can be minimal. I definitely don't consider it to be buggy. Maybe the way sound output switching works is a bit awkward, but that's about it. [1] http://pasteboard.co/6zgtPnMb7.png http://pasteboard.co/6zgtPnMb7.png
- JorgeGT 10y ago
  Curiously for me it's the opposite, I like very much the default Unity (14.04) font / anti-aliasing / rendering, I find it is much easier/pleasant to read that the default in Windows (Segoe UI?), bolder and "smoother", so to speak. I've tried calibrating the ClearType features and it's better, but still way worse than the Ubuntu default. Has anyone felt the same and/or found any solution?
- type0 10y ago
  First time I hear something other than praise for Ubuntu fonts. Bodhi Linux was the only distro I tried that had terrible fonts, all others were good or very good and I tried about 10 of them.
  - smhg 10y ago
    I definitely didn't want to say they are bad. For me, personally, the switch from Windows was rough. Not because I consider any of them to be superior, but because the way things are rendered is just so different. A more compact font (the 'Condensed' part) helped me a lot. So many other things (window animations, shadows, straight borders,...) I really love. And the compact font is the finishing touch for my untrained eye.
mathw 10y ago
This brought back memories, but I haven't had to do any of those things for ten years or so now. I've been careful in my hardware purchases, yes, but I've been running mostly Fedora on a couple of ThinkPads and it almost always just keeps on working. Especially the last four or five years, which is about how long it's been since I last had to switch to Ubuntu because Fedora was too broken. The latest shock was upgrading to Fedora 25 and finding out the Wayland session was running and I could barely tell the difference. All that extra time before making it the default was definitely worth it! Most impressive. Sure, desktop Linux isn't for everyone and it's not for every workload (I'm a .NET developer, I more or less have to use Windows at work; and I do have a big Windows box at home for gaming) but it lets me do my web browsing and my artwork and my hobby development stuff in great comfort and mostly just stays out of my way.
- antongribok 10y ago
  I'm running Fedora 24 on my laptop and just installed 25 on a desktop, and I can't tell any difference in user experience. They did a great job indeed! I've switched to running Linux full time on my work desktop or laptop around Ubuntu Lucid, and then switched to Fedora around 18 or 19. I'll run some Ubuntu desktop VMs from time to time for certain things, but for most things I prefer Fedora. I can't wait for the Dell XPS 13 DE that my wife just ordered for me for Christmas to arrive in the mail.
abrowne 10y ago
I've recently switched from MacOS to Linux. After trying lots of distros and desktops, I went with Ubuntu MATE. Other than needing to plug into ethernet to get the (Broadcom) wifi driver, it was an 100% automatic install, and I configure and tweak a new MacOS install more these days.
- vanderZwan 10y ago
  For me Kubuntu was the one that finally stopped giving me grief with dual monitor support (also, I miss ALT+Space Bar whenever I'm on another computer now). I suspect which distro works best also really depends on your hardware.
legulere 10y ago
> Because they ship your bug fixes. Sadly they often don't. Especially on the desktop most open source developers seem to be doing the work for free and it's totally understandable that they prefer playing around with new features rather than fixing bugs.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  More and more these days it feels like the big DEs operate much like Microsoft, as the response all too often is "its not a bug, but a feature".
- levlaz 10y ago
  Sorry maybe I said this wrong. A lot of developers that I know run Linux on the desktop. They don't necessary ship bug fixes for desktop linux but they write code for Google, Facebook, Some other Startup, etc.. "shipping bug fixes" may not have gotten that point across but my point is "Hackers make the Software that we all enjoy".
manishsharan 10y ago
Thank you OP for recognizing us. I have been rocking a Ubuntu on desktop for over 10 years. My 10 year old desktop boots up faster that my new windows laptop at work with all the security anti-virus etc. crapware.
nekopa 10y ago
I'm a very happy Xubuntu user. Have been for about 5 years, and even switched my partners laptop over to it a few months ago, after her win10 borked itself. Previously I used to dual boot windows and Slackware, but after 10 odd years on Slackware I wanted a Linux system I could just use and not spend every minute tweaking. I must be getting old. But I still have fond memories of plugging into Ethernet to get online with lynx and try to find out how did I manage to fuč up WiFi and Xorg by editing and completely unrelated (or so I thought) file. Ah, good times.
- k__ 10y ago
  I'm using xubuntu for years now, but I have the feeling it got heavier every year. Now I'm searching for a better alternative
  - moderation 10y ago
    Xubuntu user for years also. I still find it pretty zippy and everytime I go out looking at alternatives I always come back.
    - nekopa 10y ago
      Same here. But I must confess that I do get a new laptop every 2-3 years, so maybe it is getting heavier, but I don't notice it. But I was surprised recently when win10 killed my ssd, so I installed Xubuntu on the spinning disk. And it runs as fast as win10 did on the ssd. The only thing that does take longer is booting up, but I always had the feeling that windows was cheating somehow, it would boot to the desktop really quick, but it was not a usable desktop. That still took a while to become responsive.
  - Anthony-G 10y ago
    I’m a very happy user of Lubuntu on an 8-year old Dell laptop – with a modest Celeron 550 processor (I only recently got around to upgrading the RAM from 1GB to 2.5GB) and intend to follow it up with an SSD. I’ve stuck with Lubuntu for the past 5 years or so after experimenting with briefly with Elementary OS and regular Ubuntu. I’ve never had any issue installing it and/or configuring it.
rodolphoarruda 10y ago
I'm so glad this one reached the top page in HN. It's our chance to talk about it. I've been using Linux on my personal and professional desktops since 2006. I really enjoyed when Ubuntu got its presence and relevance in the scene, and I didn't mind when they decided to adopt Unity. KDE has always been my preferred option until I read an article where Linus T. said he used Gnome. So by the time I moved to Gnome I also doubled by RAM and swapped to a SSD. Those were the happiest days in my life. Using a computer was a real joy mainly because of response times brought down to nearly zero. OpenOffice, Files, browsers, and IMs were loaded before you could notice you had released the mouse button. I even started to advertise this terminology among friends and family: "instant computing experience". It was my own way to describe experience to Windows users who still had to wait seconds for things to load on their screens. Those were the gold pre-UEFI days. Machines were shipped OEM with Windows 7, which you could swipe out and replace with your favorite Linux ditro. No strings attached, no major headaches etc. Of course, some would have to struggle to make some hardware work, but once those things were sorted out and optimized, again: pure joy. I'm writing this because I hate UEFI. It made my life difficult because I have a hard time whenever I decide to install Linux on any new machine. Double or single boot, it doesn't matter. Today the so-called "instant computing experience" is just as a memory in my head. I'm stuck with Windows 10 and trying to get used to the fact applications take time to load. I wave to wait. I wait for the OS to start up. I wait until it resumes from sleeping mode. I wait for everything. I'm waiting for a definitive solution to the UEFI problem either from Ubuntu or from the community. Desperately!
- dman 10y ago
  Dont know what issue you had with UEFI but these days it should be possible for you to install Fedora / Ubuntu on a UEFI machine without any issues.
- grp 10y ago
  Maybe rEFInd[1] can help! UEFI has some cool things, like you don't really need a bootloader if you don't mind switching kernels. Just tell the bios which partition you want to boot. [1] http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/ http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/
jcoffland 10y ago
My wife is not a computer person and she has been using Linux exclusively for about 15 years now. I help every now and then.
Mister_Snuggles 10y ago
I'm running OpenSuSE Leap 42.1 on my ThinkPad x131e (Intel). I've also added the repositories that give me the latest Qt, KDE, and KDE Applications. The net result is that I've got a stable base and a rolling release of the desktop environment. The only "issues" I've had are: - Needed to add a repository to get the Broadcom wireless driver. - Sometimes the network status applet gets "stuck" with the progress indicator spinning even though the network is actually connected. It's like part of the applet knows it's connected, but the icon state didn't get updated. A logout/login fixes this. - Sometimes I have to toggle the Wifi on and off to get it to reconnect after a wake. - Sometimes if I close the lid too quickly after shutdown it decides that it wants to reboot. Honestly, these are the only real problems I have with the machine and they're very minor. For the most part, the machine performs exactly like you'd expect a small low-end laptop to perform.
greydius 10y ago
> How else can you stare at an empty screen and know that you have to blacklist your video card driver? Or sit in silence while tweaking alsamixer on the command line? Or write bash aliases to reload your network driver kernel module each time your laptop resumes from suspension? The good old days! I've been a desktop Linux user for going on a decade. Yes, it used to be a mess. Something only someone with technical acumen, enormous amounts of free time, and an endless supply of patience would subject themselves to. It's amazing how much has changed. Maybe I was lucky. I transitioned from 'student with plenty of time to mess around with my computer' into 'adult who actually needs to get work done' at around the time that Linux desktops were becoming mature. I've been using Ubuntu for the last two years and rarely have problems. Granted, I'm not a typical computer user. I don't need everything dumbed down and made pretty. I need a stable and reliable system that I have complete control over. It doesn't hurt that any software I need is an 'apt-get install' away as well. So thank you Linux, and thanks to all the developers that contribute to the ecosystem.
- antnisp 10y ago
  I regularly have to $sudo systemctl restart NetworkManager.service after suspend on Ubuntu LTS :(.
  - therealjumbo 10y ago
    16.04 or 14.04? I have to do the same after suspend on 16.04 gnome ubuntu, on my personal laptop. Network manager is such a shame on a system that otherwise gives me no trouble. I stay in the terminal and the web browser the vast majority of the time, so I don't need tons of fancy desktop stuff, but if it stays out of my way? Meh, sure whatever. At work, I have a RNDIS USB network device I need to connect to (work laptop, not personal) and Network Manager is just insane, I don't even know what its trying to do. It only works if I delete the connection every time it boots, and re-add it. I just wish I could figure out where to add it in a config file and never touch it, but all the documentation seems out of date. Ubuntu is trying to do so many changes in such a short period of time I guess they were bound to have some difficulties but it does seem like Network Manager is the worst of the bunch, otherwise everything else seems great.
bfrog 10y ago
Linux as a desktop has come a long way. Most things Just Work now. I actually enjoy the experience a great deal more than either Windows or Mac at this point, and I'm no Masochist. Windows, Mac... plug a device in, install the driver through some lame wizard. Linux... plug the device in, it Just Works. Windows, Mac... software is out of date, go through dozens different wizards and CLI tools to update all your stuff. Linux... run a yum/apt/pacman/whatever update, everything is good to roll. If your using NixOS you even get a complete system rollback, with configurations, feature without any disk snap shotting required. No microscopic close button. No spying on my desktop activity. No expensive custom hardware required. About the only downside is the lack of Adobe, which I personally don't use but I know it would continue to be a blocker for many. Dear Adobe, get your shit together.
- xgbi 10y ago
  I'm not sure we have the same experience on Mac. Everything I ever plugged in there works, from Arduino to Androids to USB sound cards, DVBT/SDR tuners, webcams, or USB ethernet adapters, even my little USB scanner. I migght have had problems with Wifi, but it was usually the same in linux with the ndiswrapper dance. I even plugged a Social Security card reader (Frenchman here) in there and it was detected correctly as a serial adapter.
  - taeric 10y ago
    Oddly, the number one "I can't believe this doesn't just work category" is printers. It is frustrating that I can just start printing from my ubuntu machine, but have to figure out how to get the right drivers for my other machines. As a standard caveat, I don't actually use that many devices on my network. So, YMMV. A lot.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      To contrast, IME, CUPS is a pain. Absolutely awful. Printing Just Works everywhere except Linux. And I'm using an EPSON printer, too.
skraelingjar 10y ago
I bought a $250 chromebook and a new SSD just to run Ubuntu as my daily driver and it's been great! Of course I've written scripts to reload network-manager on wake, add the keyboard backlight driver back into the kernel after updates, and I can't let the battery dip below 2% or everything will be erased...
- partisan 10y ago
  I bought a Dell Chromebook 13 with an i5 processor and I upgraded the SSD. In the end, I might have been better off getting a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition, but I am somewhat smitten with this pretty amazing little machine. I am worried about flashing the BIOS and bricking it, but that seems to be the only way, apart from constantly charging it, to avoid loss of data.
  - dennylfromga 10y ago
    Why flash the BIOS? I have a Dell Chromebook 13 (i5/8GB) and I upgraded the SSD to 256GB. I installed Linux Mint 18 (Sarah) on partition 7 which I can dual-boot into and I have several crouton chroots installed to run with CrOS. I find this a perfect setup for my needs.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
reitanqild 10y ago
KDE Neon user here. As long as I work at a place that doesn't care then I guess it will be KDE for the next few releases. Have left a partition with my Windows installation but as much as I think Windows 10 is a step forward, lenovo drivers or something still manage to drive me mad. Build now takes 22-25 seconds compared to > 45 seconds. Edit: Neon gives me the stability of Ubuntu as I remember it together with the beauty and (power user at least : ) usability of KDE 5. Perfect? No.[0] Nice? Fast? Easy to use? Yes, yes and yes. [0]: (I sometimes run a sudo service networking restart or sudo service network-manager restart, but Windows used to either refuse to sleep or somehow restart in my bag, which destroyed my display last year.) Fast
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Too late to edit but it should be "...but Windows sometimes used to...".
swayvil 10y ago
I install Linux for impoverished, computer-illiterate old ladies. Debian, with the Mate desktop, specifically. They like it because it's free, it just works, it never breaks, it runs fast on your old machine, it never gets malware and it doesn't waste your time and money with bullshit like Windows and Mac does.
scandox 10y ago
I'm using Arch with the i3 window manager for the last 8 months. I've run pacman -Syu (equivalent of apt-get dist-upgrade) probably once a day that entire time. I've had exactly zero problems. It is amazingly smooth. The setup was a mild chore and yes the laptop is UEFI and I am dual booting. But I can't remember the last time I used Windows, though I do remember it seemed insanely slow. I often find myself doing something in the Terminal thinking: "This is objectively easier than filling in an online form". And when I see teenagers and geriatrics behind the counter at Dunnes Stores (Irish thing) using Terminal based stock control with flying fingers, I do think we've chosen a strange path. Then I shake my head and move along.
- Accacin 10y ago
  As a fellow Arch i3wm user I completely agree. I love i3's simple and readable config. It's odd that in Windows I dread updates, but using Arch I love to go home and see how many packages are ready to be installed and I usually end up running Pacman -Syu when I'm bored heh.
- nogbit 10y ago
  Same, Arch and i3. I keep my hands on the keyboard, mouse for input is worthless except for games and many web sites.
arc_of_descent 10y ago
I've been using Linux as my desktop for 10 years now. I really love it and can't imagine how people (especially devs) make do with Windows or Mac (To be honest I've never used a Mac). But here's to Linux on the Desktop!
qwertyuiop924 10y ago
I do love this. It's an enjoyable humorous piece. And it's just a little cathartic for those of us who remember when running a Linux desktop wasn't as easy as it is now. But nowadays, everything Just Works, modulo the occasional kernel/driver version bump that needs a reboot, and the irritations of running systemdless. I wasn't around when running Linux on the desktop was that bad, but I do remember the insanity of Linux Gaming between when Loki folded and when Valve took the mantle. It was... bad.
listrophy 10y ago
Flagging as off-topic per "Political Detox Week": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13108404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13108404 This "story" does not satisfy "substantive" and qualifies as "ideological." > What Hacker News is: a place for stories that gratify intellectual curiosity and civil, substantive comments. What it is not: a[n]... ideological... battlefield. Don't get me wrong: I do appreciate Linux on the desktop. But we're not allowed to talk about it this way during this week.
- fieryskiff 10y ago
  This is the second post I've seen just this morning trying to shut down a post due to it being "political" when it clearly isn't. I'm sad to say that I saw this coming, and it was a big part of why I didn't like the "experiment". Aside: I only really noticed this post because it was initially at the top of the page due to being new. I probably would have otherwise ignored it.
  - listrophy 10y ago
    I don't like the "experiment" either, but there are _always_ unintended consequences to actions. It's not my fault they're doing a crappy "experiment."
Fwirt 10y ago
After reading many glowing comments, just chiming in with my own anecdote here. As someone who recently gave the Linux desktop a second (third?) chance, my experience seems to match up well with the author's. From what I've seen, the Linux desktop works very well if you have a very "standard" setup - One monitor of average size, one sound output, a very standard network chipset, etc. In other words, a Thinkpad. If you're trying to get everything to work on, say, a living room HTPC with HDMI sound output and an HiDPI UHD display, good luck. This is of course anecdotal, but my recent experience went something like this: - Install Kubuntu for simplicity my wife can relate to. "Oh wow! Most things are actually working out-of-the-box! Even wireless networking!" - "Hmm, everything's a little small... Maybe I can just adjust the dpi..." 6 hours of editing config files and restarting daemons later, Qt applications are mostly behaving, Gtk applications are still popping up with random scaling factors between 1x and 3x. - "That's funny, the sound is only coming out of the headphone jack..." 3 hours of tweaking settings later, sound over HDMI is *mostly* working, but if I logout and back in then everything believes my audio device has vaporized. - Wife walks in and says, "Just install Windows, please." I know my experience may be unique, but "Just Works" has never been the case for me. I love the concept and ideology of the Linux desktop, but I always end up spending more time editing config files and tearing my hair out than I do actually working. That being said, I'm glad it works well for some of us...
dman 10y ago
As an avid Linux user I used to be troubled by people claiming the utter unusability of Linux as a productive desktop environment. The thing that brought me some peace was the realization that a lot of the users that complain about desktop linux being broken want the computing equivalent of a Toyota Camry - something that takes them from point A to point B with a minimum of fuss. I would like to think of the Linux desktop environment as being closer to a Miata - something fun and enjoyable for those that are willing to accept different tradeoffs and enjoy being closer to the road.
- levlaz 10y ago
  > I would like to think of the Linux desktop environment as being closer to a Miata - something fun and enjoyable for those that are willing to accept different tradeoffs and enjoy being closer to the road. I really like this analogy.
BrandoElFollito 10y ago
I am a Linux fan since ca. 1993. Yesterday I tried once again to give a chance to ubuntu desktop on my dual boot Lenovo P50 with a docking station and two screens. Complete failure, the screens were not recognized, the cursor was leaving a trace, etc. A complete failure. So while Linux as a server is a dream came true, I will stick to Windows as my desktop OS.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

194 points by levlaz 10y ago

aamederen 10y ago

Unfortunately, this is true, we have all been there.

levlaz 10y ago
I started writing a post about the latest addition to my ~/.bash_profile file: ``` # Restart Network Driver alias n="sudo modprobe -r ath10k_pci && sudo modprobe ath10k_pci" ``` And ended up stealing the Apple ad instead. Much more fun. :)
- andreicon 10y ago
  does stuff in ~/.bash_profile also get executed when you return from suspend/hibernation or rather just at first boot?
  - levlaz 10y ago
    Oh no, this is just an alias called `n` that I execute when the drivers are borked. Every other time that my laptop resumes from hibernate my wifi doesn't work. There is probably a much better solution here, but this one works for me.
    - andreicon 10y ago
      i went through the same pains with my hp stream 11 this helped: http://askubuntu.com/questions/632719/my-wifi-drops-the-connection-after-a-few-minutes-realtek8723be http://askubuntu.com/questions/632719/my-wifi-drops-the-conn... the fwlps=0 option disables the sleep feature altogether which might reduce battery life, but installing tlp gave me ~2 hrs extra per charge
      - levlaz 10y ago
        Nice! Thanks for sharing that. I think that AskUbuntu thread is a living testimonial to what I am trying to express through my trolly blog post. I am honestly proud to be in a community of users who would read that thread and not reinstall Windows. It takes a special breed.
        andreicon 10y ago
        i'm reading your "about" page and thinking... what have i been doing all my life? i've followed you on twitter. keep writing good content!
        levlaz 10y ago
        Wow thanks so much! Best compliment I've received on HN :) Cheers!
- skykooler 10y ago
  I had a similar alias in my eeePC (broadcom wifi drivers, which needed to be restarted after every boot). And I remember days of printing out xorg.conf documentation and random help threads at the library, in the hopes that I could finally convince nvidia drivers to give me graphics again. That said, I'm glad that nowadays my Linux problems tend to be more along the lines of "notifications aren't making noise when a video is playing" and not system-breaking bugs.

staticelf 10y ago

I use desktop linux on my work computer, it barely works and I have some issues. Although it's red hat enterprise which is running a lot of old shit. I think using a friendlier distro like Ubuntu or Fedora would probably be a lot better and give a much better experience.

kusmi 10y ago
I have Centos on my laptop and the Nvidia drivers work, steam works, 3 displays run flawlessly, SELinux is enforcing (!), but I'll be damned if I ever get the network printer to work.
to3m 10y ago
I use Ubuntu on my work PC. - had to buy a 2nd GPU to get 3 monitors to work - GPU driver won't drive my 2560x1440 monitor at the max res - popup volume control pops up every minute or so (and sound pops and stutters a bit each time this happens) - when waking from sleep, TTY works immediately, but GUI takes about 30 seconds to appear - something crashes on every boot, but it doesn't tell me what (I dutifully submit a crash report) - any time I drag something in Firefox (text, image, tab, etc.), Firefox crashes USB throughput and FS performance are very good though, and 3d, wifi and suspend-to-disk do work! (Whatever the root cause of all of these things, be it Linux per se or some other issue, the fact remains that I don't have any of these problems on Windows. Of course, I don't get the smashing filing system speed either...)
- loudmax 10y ago
  Sounds like problems with the video card drivers. In Linux, it pays to research how well hardware is supported before you buy it, especially for video and wifi. Even then, you may still benefit from looking at alternative drivers or seeing if there are xorg.conf or kernel boot time options that resolve those issues. Whether it's worth the trouble of tracking down arcane options to get your system working optimally is up to you. For most people it's not worth the effort, so there are relatively few of us running Linux on the desktop. If you're willing to put in the time and effort (and you happen to have compatible hardware) it is possible to get a system that matches or exceeds proprietary software desktops. Just be prepared to start all over again when you upgrade to the next version of Ubuntu.

earthly10x 10y ago

I've been Linux on the desktop since 93' and especially since VMWare came out.

erelde 10y ago
Do you mean you're using Linux as guests on another host OS ? Or do you mean you're using Linux as hosts for other machines ?

wiredfool 10y ago

I think status quo is a good thing. Linux users don't want stuff to break for no good reason. I say this after reading the article, then hoping that the new kernel install doesn't bring back the video tearing/blinking when moving the mouse from screen 0 to 1.

module0000 10y ago
At least we can downgrade our kernels without re-install-and-recover-from-time-machine though, but otherwise yea :)
- aruggirello 10y ago
  Speaking of Time Machine, I use Timeshift to do backups on Ubuntu. It's a GUI rsnapshot-based tool, and will backup/restore the full system, including boot sector, so it's perfect for a desktop user. Backing up your machine(s) regularly is important, regardless of the number of kernel images you have available. Because sh*t happens. :)
digi_owl 10y ago
> I think status quo is a good thing. Linux users don't want stuff to break for no good reason. Sadly Linux (user space) devs are stuck in CADT mode. So while the kernel may behave, anything above is a constant, relentless, churn of code.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

wiz21c 10y ago

My wife is on KDE, kids are on KDE every day (although they spend their time mostly inside firefox). I use openbox exclusively. It's debian stable (testing was a bit too stressful to update every week, I'm getting old :-)) Everything works : printing works (provided the driver is flawed); network works, cd burner works, Nvidia card works. electronic ID card works, USB stuff works. I even use a pretty old scanner and a pretty old drawing tablet; both work. The PC is 7 years old. I've added hard drives, changed video card and moved to SSD drives. The only pain point is that somehow, sometimes the PC doesn't shutdown because it has received a wake-on-lan packet.

thecatspaw 10y ago
> sometimes the PC doesn't shutdown because it has received a wake-on-lan packet. you should be able to fix that through the bios

cdevs 10y ago

Running kali and then mint is when I first had to experience all this hunting down the nomodeset option, ubuntu was fine but can flip out on wifi after standby which I think my first goto fix was Sudo ifconfig wlan0 down then Sudo ifconfig wlan0 up. Cheers to the crazy ones running a low ram hogging distro and less background processes so they can carry on a $200 i3 cpu / 4gig ram laptop for many years beyond windows and Mac users.

digi_owl 10y ago
Heh, i think the motherboard in the desktop i am typing this on is 10 years old soon. At least that seems to be the case based on the copyright year given for the bios on each boot.

zeroviscosity 10y ago

I don't think anything on HN has ever made me as happy as this. Really captures the experience - both the frustrations and the joys.

levlaz 10y ago
Wow, thanks so much for this amazing compliment. :)

donquichotte 10y ago

Last fall I bought a Thinkpad T540s that came with Windows 10 + Lenovo Crapware and a sound driver that did not work out of the box. I installed Ubuntu on it and everything, including multiple displays, just worked. I didn't even have to recompile the kernel to get WiFi running.

rglullis 10y ago
This "Linux has too many issues on the desktop" thing got old already. To be precise, it is as old as Ubuntu 12.04. I have more than a handful of people that had PCs that "got too slow" and wanted to get a new PC or a Mac. I'd tell them to get an SSD. When they did, I'd go take a look at their computers, install the SSD myself and in less than an hour I'd guide them (not do it myself, guide) how to install Ubuntu and set up printers, scanners and which programs could substitute whatever they were used to use on Windows. The hardware was never a problem: HP printers, Canon all-in-ones, onboard wi-fi, you name it. The one thing that is still sub-par on Linux is power management, so batteries do suffer some abuse compared with other OSes. But for slightly older laptops with removable/replaceable batteries and desktops, I fail to see how Windows or MacOS is better in any way for the casual PC user. I think the ones complaining about hardware/configuration issues with Linux today are the ones pushing the envelope and trying to do things that will be tricky even on Windows/MacOS.
- mverwijs 10y ago
  > To be precise, it is as old as Ubuntu 12.04. I see what you did there. :)
- levlaz 10y ago
  Maybe, if you pick the right hardware life is good. I picked up an Acer V3 which is an awesome machine except the network dies when you resume from suspend (which then prompted this troll-ey blog post :))

loudmax 10y ago

For anyone who misses it, this is a reference to Apple's 1997 Think Different marketing campaign. The original ode is here: http://www.thecrazyones.it/spot-en.html http://www.thecrazyones.it/spot-en.html I'd forgotten about this campaign, and I would have missed the reference myself, but I just happened to listen to an audiobook chapter from Steve Jobs' biography yesterday.

levlaz 10y ago
> For anyone who misses it, this is a reference to Apple's 1997 Think Different marketing campaign. Yes, thank you! This post was careful crafted trolling. I am glad the not so subtle plagiarism was completely lost. ;)
- Anthony-G 10y ago
  As a happy Lubuntu user, I interpreted it as an homage to the original Think Different quote. On a related note, the Atlantic has an interesting article on the Think Different advertising campaign: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/true-history-apples-think-different-campaign/334256/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/true-...

throw2016 10y ago

I current use Unity on Ubuntu 16.04 as my main system and I prefer it to my macbook pro and Windows desktop. Its smooth, fast and minimal. For someone who has used Linux desktops for more than 15 years it has come a long way. Gnome and Kde are both good but Unity provides a rare minimalism and polish on Linux. But for those who need specialized apps that app determines their work machine.

erelde 10y ago
If you're after minimalism, you should take a look at /r/unixporn (kinda SFW despite the name). Not necessarily the most efficient DEs or WMs, but it looks damn good. Some people seem to get a sharp looking Unity. I use bspwm on ArchLinux myself.

drewg123 10y ago

How about *nix desktop? I miss the days where a TWM was "enough". I started with TWM on Xterms and DECstations, moving up to CTWM on DEC alphas. I finally switched away from CTWM around the year 2000, due to it not supporting some kind of modern nonsense that web browsers wanted. Thankfully, KDE let me configure most of the keybindings in my .twmrc file & retain my muscle memory. Gnome rejected a patch that I sent them to allow the same config there, so I've been using KDE ever since. I ran FreeBSD for years as a desktop and always thought Linux was the gold standard for things like KDE. First FreeBSD/alpha in the early 2000s, and then FreeBSD/i386 on a P4. I remember getting sick of things "not working", switching to Ubuntu, and realizing that things were just as flaky there. So after ~6 years on a linux desktop, I'm back to FreeBSD.

arethuza 10y ago
Which desktop technology though - at one point (~1990) I had a login menu that prompted me to select Sunview, X or NeWS. TWM was the first X window manager I used, I remember spending ages getting it just so - just in time for a newer fancier one to come out (probably olwm in OpenWindows) - liked mwm for a few years as well. Must be something that I grew out of as I don't spend that much time personalizing computing environments these days.
- jstanley 10y ago
  > Must be something that I grew out of as I don't spend that much time personalizing computing environments these days. I've had the same experience. I now find it easier to adapt myself to the defaults than to change the defaults every time I'm somewhere new.
- drewg123 10y ago
  The Sun NewS stuff was some kind of postscript based rendering system that ran in parallel to X with an X server sharing the screen -- kind of like how X works on MacOSX today). I stayed away from it because I used mostly X windows terminals & DECstations. There was very little Sun hardware I could sit in front of in my formative years as an undergrad in the late 80s / early 90s. I kept the same basic customizations for years, mostly around focus-follows-mouse and what mouse buttons + key combos moved, resize, iconify windows. My problem was that the key things my muscle memory depended on were fairly hard to configure in most things, and by that time, it was too late to change my muscle memory. Eg, I have this hard-coded in my brain: Button1=m :w|f : f.function "move-raise" Button2=m :w|f : f.resize Button3=m :w|f : f.iconify (this means alt with mouse button 1 = raise window to front, and move it, alt+mouse2 = resize, alt+mouse3 = iconify) So changing to anything else that didn't easily allow this customization was painful. I used a Mac for almost a year, and lived in the X environment so much that I went back to a *nix desktop. I kept doing crazy thing when I moved my mouse to another window, and the focus did not follow the mouse. So I'd start typing code in an Xemacs window, and i'd be deleting or forwarding mail. Argh.

smashu 10y ago

my ThinkCentre home desktop runs on Ubuntu for 3 years, my Dell laptop runs on Fedora for 1 year. All smooth ;)

grp 10y ago
and my Vaio laptop runs voidlinux for 2 years, after arch for 4 years and fedora for 3! Still booting in less time than the bios needs to. :)

berntb 10y ago

Funny but really out of date. :-) I used to do some sysadmin stuff a long time ago, but am losing my UNIX/Linux skills -- because the Ubuntu (and follow ups) desktop just works with very little trouble, since lots of years. It seems I only use apt-get these days. Maybe I am just careful when I buy hardware, I don't know. That said, right now I am irritated and will soon have to download and read sources, because of problems getting an ipsec configuration to work on Mint 18. (It worked copying it from Ubuntu to Mint 17.3). But I really can't remember the previous time I broke out the source. Edit: It seems most people have the same experience as me. (I should also add to my claims of only needing apt-get, that it often work better if I get printer drivers from the manufacturer and not from the distro.)

smhg 10y ago

Related to Ubuntu's Unity (might apply to other environments): I remember last time I switched from Windows (~3 years ago) it was once again harsh on my eyes. The way things (fonts?) are rendered is just different. What made me survive the first days was switching the default font to Roboto Condensed (of Google fame) [1] with: sudo apt-get install fonts-roboto unity-tweak-tool I wouldn't want to trade it for any other OS currently. It just looks so good. But I guess it is more because I got used to it than anything else. If you find what works for you (right hardware, right kernel), issues can be minimal. I definitely don't consider it to be buggy. Maybe the way sound output switching works is a bit awkward, but that's about it. [1] http://pasteboard.co/6zgtPnMb7.png http://pasteboard.co/6zgtPnMb7.png

JorgeGT 10y ago
Curiously for me it's the opposite, I like very much the default Unity (14.04) font / anti-aliasing / rendering, I find it is much easier/pleasant to read that the default in Windows (Segoe UI?), bolder and "smoother", so to speak. I've tried calibrating the ClearType features and it's better, but still way worse than the Ubuntu default. Has anyone felt the same and/or found any solution?
type0 10y ago
First time I hear something other than praise for Ubuntu fonts. Bodhi Linux was the only distro I tried that had terrible fonts, all others were good or very good and I tried about 10 of them.
- smhg 10y ago
  I definitely didn't want to say they are bad. For me, personally, the switch from Windows was rough. Not because I consider any of them to be superior, but because the way things are rendered is just so different. A more compact font (the 'Condensed' part) helped me a lot. So many other things (window animations, shadows, straight borders,...) I really love. And the compact font is the finishing touch for my untrained eye.

mathw 10y ago

This brought back memories, but I haven't had to do any of those things for ten years or so now. I've been careful in my hardware purchases, yes, but I've been running mostly Fedora on a couple of ThinkPads and it almost always just keeps on working. Especially the last four or five years, which is about how long it's been since I last had to switch to Ubuntu because Fedora was too broken. The latest shock was upgrading to Fedora 25 and finding out the Wayland session was running and I could barely tell the difference. All that extra time before making it the default was definitely worth it! Most impressive. Sure, desktop Linux isn't for everyone and it's not for every workload (I'm a .NET developer, I more or less have to use Windows at work; and I do have a big Windows box at home for gaming) but it lets me do my web browsing and my artwork and my hobby development stuff in great comfort and mostly just stays out of my way.

antongribok 10y ago
I'm running Fedora 24 on my laptop and just installed 25 on a desktop, and I can't tell any difference in user experience. They did a great job indeed! I've switched to running Linux full time on my work desktop or laptop around Ubuntu Lucid, and then switched to Fedora around 18 or 19. I'll run some Ubuntu desktop VMs from time to time for certain things, but for most things I prefer Fedora. I can't wait for the Dell XPS 13 DE that my wife just ordered for me for Christmas to arrive in the mail.

abrowne 10y ago

I've recently switched from MacOS to Linux. After trying lots of distros and desktops, I went with Ubuntu MATE. Other than needing to plug into ethernet to get the (Broadcom) wifi driver, it was an 100% automatic install, and I configure and tweak a new MacOS install more these days.

vanderZwan 10y ago
For me Kubuntu was the one that finally stopped giving me grief with dual monitor support (also, I miss ALT+Space Bar whenever I'm on another computer now). I suspect which distro works best also really depends on your hardware.

legulere 10y ago

> Because they ship your bug fixes. Sadly they often don't. Especially on the desktop most open source developers seem to be doing the work for free and it's totally understandable that they prefer playing around with new features rather than fixing bugs.

digi_owl 10y ago
More and more these days it feels like the big DEs operate much like Microsoft, as the response all too often is "its not a bug, but a feature".
levlaz 10y ago
Sorry maybe I said this wrong. A lot of developers that I know run Linux on the desktop. They don't necessary ship bug fixes for desktop linux but they write code for Google, Facebook, Some other Startup, etc.. "shipping bug fixes" may not have gotten that point across but my point is "Hackers make the Software that we all enjoy".

manishsharan 10y ago

Thank you OP for recognizing us. I have been rocking a Ubuntu on desktop for over 10 years. My 10 year old desktop boots up faster that my new windows laptop at work with all the security anti-virus etc. crapware.

nekopa 10y ago

I'm a very happy Xubuntu user. Have been for about 5 years, and even switched my partners laptop over to it a few months ago, after her win10 borked itself. Previously I used to dual boot windows and Slackware, but after 10 odd years on Slackware I wanted a Linux system I could just use and not spend every minute tweaking. I must be getting old. But I still have fond memories of plugging into Ethernet to get online with lynx and try to find out how did I manage to fuč up WiFi and Xorg by editing and completely unrelated (or so I thought) file. Ah, good times.

k__ 10y ago
I'm using xubuntu for years now, but I have the feeling it got heavier every year. Now I'm searching for a better alternative
- moderation 10y ago
  Xubuntu user for years also. I still find it pretty zippy and everytime I go out looking at alternatives I always come back.
  - nekopa 10y ago
    Same here. But I must confess that I do get a new laptop every 2-3 years, so maybe it is getting heavier, but I don't notice it. But I was surprised recently when win10 killed my ssd, so I installed Xubuntu on the spinning disk. And it runs as fast as win10 did on the ssd. The only thing that does take longer is booting up, but I always had the feeling that windows was cheating somehow, it would boot to the desktop really quick, but it was not a usable desktop. That still took a while to become responsive.
- Anthony-G 10y ago
  I’m a very happy user of Lubuntu on an 8-year old Dell laptop – with a modest Celeron 550 processor (I only recently got around to upgrading the RAM from 1GB to 2.5GB) and intend to follow it up with an SSD. I’ve stuck with Lubuntu for the past 5 years or so after experimenting with briefly with Elementary OS and regular Ubuntu. I’ve never had any issue installing it and/or configuring it.

rodolphoarruda 10y ago

I'm so glad this one reached the top page in HN. It's our chance to talk about it. I've been using Linux on my personal and professional desktops since 2006. I really enjoyed when Ubuntu got its presence and relevance in the scene, and I didn't mind when they decided to adopt Unity. KDE has always been my preferred option until I read an article where Linus T. said he used Gnome. So by the time I moved to Gnome I also doubled by RAM and swapped to a SSD. Those were the happiest days in my life. Using a computer was a real joy mainly because of response times brought down to nearly zero. OpenOffice, Files, browsers, and IMs were loaded before you could notice you had released the mouse button. I even started to advertise this terminology among friends and family: "instant computing experience". It was my own way to describe experience to Windows users who still had to wait seconds for things to load on their screens. Those were the gold pre-UEFI days. Machines were shipped OEM with Windows 7, which you could swipe out and replace with your favorite Linux ditro. No strings attached, no major headaches etc. Of course, some would have to struggle to make some hardware work, but once those things were sorted out and optimized, again: pure joy. I'm writing this because I hate UEFI. It made my life difficult because I have a hard time whenever I decide to install Linux on any new machine. Double or single boot, it doesn't matter. Today the so-called "instant computing experience" is just as a memory in my head. I'm stuck with Windows 10 and trying to get used to the fact applications take time to load. I wave to wait. I wait for the OS to start up. I wait until it resumes from sleeping mode. I wait for everything. I'm waiting for a definitive solution to the UEFI problem either from Ubuntu or from the community. Desperately!

dman 10y ago
Dont know what issue you had with UEFI but these days it should be possible for you to install Fedora / Ubuntu on a UEFI machine without any issues.
grp 10y ago
Maybe rEFInd[1] can help! UEFI has some cool things, like you don't really need a bootloader if you don't mind switching kernels. Just tell the bios which partition you want to boot. [1] http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/ http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/

jcoffland 10y ago

My wife is not a computer person and she has been using Linux exclusively for about 15 years now. I help every now and then.

Mister_Snuggles 10y ago

I'm running OpenSuSE Leap 42.1 on my ThinkPad x131e (Intel). I've also added the repositories that give me the latest Qt, KDE, and KDE Applications. The net result is that I've got a stable base and a rolling release of the desktop environment. The only "issues" I've had are: - Needed to add a repository to get the Broadcom wireless driver. - Sometimes the network status applet gets "stuck" with the progress indicator spinning even though the network is actually connected. It's like part of the applet knows it's connected, but the icon state didn't get updated. A logout/login fixes this. - Sometimes I have to toggle the Wifi on and off to get it to reconnect after a wake. - Sometimes if I close the lid too quickly after shutdown it decides that it wants to reboot. Honestly, these are the only real problems I have with the machine and they're very minor. For the most part, the machine performs exactly like you'd expect a small low-end laptop to perform.

greydius 10y ago

> How else can you stare at an empty screen and know that you have to blacklist your video card driver? Or sit in silence while tweaking alsamixer on the command line? Or write bash aliases to reload your network driver kernel module each time your laptop resumes from suspension? The good old days! I've been a desktop Linux user for going on a decade. Yes, it used to be a mess. Something only someone with technical acumen, enormous amounts of free time, and an endless supply of patience would subject themselves to. It's amazing how much has changed. Maybe I was lucky. I transitioned from 'student with plenty of time to mess around with my computer' into 'adult who actually needs to get work done' at around the time that Linux desktops were becoming mature. I've been using Ubuntu for the last two years and rarely have problems. Granted, I'm not a typical computer user. I don't need everything dumbed down and made pretty. I need a stable and reliable system that I have complete control over. It doesn't hurt that any software I need is an 'apt-get install' away as well. So thank you Linux, and thanks to all the developers that contribute to the ecosystem.

antnisp 10y ago
I regularly have to $sudo systemctl restart NetworkManager.service after suspend on Ubuntu LTS :(.
- therealjumbo 10y ago
  16.04 or 14.04? I have to do the same after suspend on 16.04 gnome ubuntu, on my personal laptop. Network manager is such a shame on a system that otherwise gives me no trouble. I stay in the terminal and the web browser the vast majority of the time, so I don't need tons of fancy desktop stuff, but if it stays out of my way? Meh, sure whatever. At work, I have a RNDIS USB network device I need to connect to (work laptop, not personal) and Network Manager is just insane, I don't even know what its trying to do. It only works if I delete the connection every time it boots, and re-add it. I just wish I could figure out where to add it in a config file and never touch it, but all the documentation seems out of date. Ubuntu is trying to do so many changes in such a short period of time I guess they were bound to have some difficulties but it does seem like Network Manager is the worst of the bunch, otherwise everything else seems great.

bfrog 10y ago

Linux as a desktop has come a long way. Most things Just Work now. I actually enjoy the experience a great deal more than either Windows or Mac at this point, and I'm no Masochist. Windows, Mac... plug a device in, install the driver through some lame wizard. Linux... plug the device in, it Just Works. Windows, Mac... software is out of date, go through dozens different wizards and CLI tools to update all your stuff. Linux... run a yum/apt/pacman/whatever update, everything is good to roll. If your using NixOS you even get a complete system rollback, with configurations, feature without any disk snap shotting required. No microscopic close button. No spying on my desktop activity. No expensive custom hardware required. About the only downside is the lack of Adobe, which I personally don't use but I know it would continue to be a blocker for many. Dear Adobe, get your shit together.

xgbi 10y ago
I'm not sure we have the same experience on Mac. Everything I ever plugged in there works, from Arduino to Androids to USB sound cards, DVBT/SDR tuners, webcams, or USB ethernet adapters, even my little USB scanner. I migght have had problems with Wifi, but it was usually the same in linux with the ndiswrapper dance. I even plugged a Social Security card reader (Frenchman here) in there and it was detected correctly as a serial adapter.
- taeric 10y ago
  Oddly, the number one "I can't believe this doesn't just work category" is printers. It is frustrating that I can just start printing from my ubuntu machine, but have to figure out how to get the right drivers for my other machines. As a standard caveat, I don't actually use that many devices on my network. So, YMMV. A lot.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    To contrast, IME, CUPS is a pain. Absolutely awful. Printing Just Works everywhere except Linux. And I'm using an EPSON printer, too.

skraelingjar 10y ago

I bought a $250 chromebook and a new SSD just to run Ubuntu as my daily driver and it's been great! Of course I've written scripts to reload network-manager on wake, add the keyboard backlight driver back into the kernel after updates, and I can't let the battery dip below 2% or everything will be erased...

partisan 10y ago
I bought a Dell Chromebook 13 with an i5 processor and I upgraded the SSD. In the end, I might have been better off getting a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition, but I am somewhat smitten with this pretty amazing little machine. I am worried about flashing the BIOS and bricking it, but that seems to be the only way, apart from constantly charging it, to avoid loss of data.
- dennylfromga 10y ago
  Why flash the BIOS? I have a Dell Chromebook 13 (i5/8GB) and I upgraded the SSD to 256GB. I installed Linux Mint 18 (Sarah) on partition 7 which I can dual-boot into and I have several crouton chroots installed to run with CrOS. I find this a perfect setup for my needs.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

reitanqild 10y ago

KDE Neon user here. As long as I work at a place that doesn't care then I guess it will be KDE for the next few releases. Have left a partition with my Windows installation but as much as I think Windows 10 is a step forward, lenovo drivers or something still manage to drive me mad. Build now takes 22-25 seconds compared to > 45 seconds. Edit: Neon gives me the stability of Ubuntu as I remember it together with the beauty and (power user at least : ) usability of KDE 5. Perfect? No.[0] Nice? Fast? Easy to use? Yes, yes and yes. [0]: (I sometimes run a sudo service networking restart or sudo service network-manager restart, but Windows used to either refuse to sleep or somehow restart in my bag, which destroyed my display last year.) Fast

reitanqild 10y ago
Too late to edit but it should be "...but Windows sometimes used to...".

swayvil 10y ago

I install Linux for impoverished, computer-illiterate old ladies. Debian, with the Mate desktop, specifically. They like it because it's free, it just works, it never breaks, it runs fast on your old machine, it never gets malware and it doesn't waste your time and money with bullshit like Windows and Mac does.

scandox 10y ago

I'm using Arch with the i3 window manager for the last 8 months. I've run pacman -Syu (equivalent of apt-get dist-upgrade) probably once a day that entire time. I've had exactly zero problems. It is amazingly smooth. The setup was a mild chore and yes the laptop is UEFI and I am dual booting. But I can't remember the last time I used Windows, though I do remember it seemed insanely slow. I often find myself doing something in the Terminal thinking: "This is objectively easier than filling in an online form". And when I see teenagers and geriatrics behind the counter at Dunnes Stores (Irish thing) using Terminal based stock control with flying fingers, I do think we've chosen a strange path. Then I shake my head and move along.

Accacin 10y ago
As a fellow Arch i3wm user I completely agree. I love i3's simple and readable config. It's odd that in Windows I dread updates, but using Arch I love to go home and see how many packages are ready to be installed and I usually end up running Pacman -Syu when I'm bored heh.
nogbit 10y ago
Same, Arch and i3. I keep my hands on the keyboard, mouse for input is worthless except for games and many web sites.

arc_of_descent 10y ago

I've been using Linux as my desktop for 10 years now. I really love it and can't imagine how people (especially devs) make do with Windows or Mac (To be honest I've never used a Mac). But here's to Linux on the Desktop!

qwertyuiop924 10y ago

I do love this. It's an enjoyable humorous piece. And it's just a little cathartic for those of us who remember when running a Linux desktop wasn't as easy as it is now. But nowadays, everything Just Works, modulo the occasional kernel/driver version bump that needs a reboot, and the irritations of running systemdless. I wasn't around when running Linux on the desktop was that bad, but I do remember the insanity of Linux Gaming between when Loki folded and when Valve took the mantle. It was... bad.

listrophy 10y ago

Flagging as off-topic per "Political Detox Week": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13108404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13108404 This "story" does not satisfy "substantive" and qualifies as "ideological." > What Hacker News is: a place for stories that gratify intellectual curiosity and civil, substantive comments. What it is not: a[n]... ideological... battlefield. Don't get me wrong: I do appreciate Linux on the desktop. But we're not allowed to talk about it this way during this week.

fieryskiff 10y ago
This is the second post I've seen just this morning trying to shut down a post due to it being "political" when it clearly isn't. I'm sad to say that I saw this coming, and it was a big part of why I didn't like the "experiment". Aside: I only really noticed this post because it was initially at the top of the page due to being new. I probably would have otherwise ignored it.
- listrophy 10y ago
  I don't like the "experiment" either, but there are _always_ unintended consequences to actions. It's not my fault they're doing a crappy "experiment."

Fwirt 10y ago

After reading many glowing comments, just chiming in with my own anecdote here. As someone who recently gave the Linux desktop a second (third?) chance, my experience seems to match up well with the author's. From what I've seen, the Linux desktop works very well if you have a very "standard" setup - One monitor of average size, one sound output, a very standard network chipset, etc. In other words, a Thinkpad. If you're trying to get everything to work on, say, a living room HTPC with HDMI sound output and an HiDPI UHD display, good luck. This is of course anecdotal, but my recent experience went something like this: - Install Kubuntu for simplicity my wife can relate to. "Oh wow! Most things are actually working out-of-the-box! Even wireless networking!" - "Hmm, everything's a little small... Maybe I can just adjust the dpi..." 6 hours of editing config files and restarting daemons later, Qt applications are mostly behaving, Gtk applications are still popping up with random scaling factors between 1x and 3x. - "That's funny, the sound is only coming out of the headphone jack..." 3 hours of tweaking settings later, sound over HDMI is *mostly* working, but if I logout and back in then everything believes my audio device has vaporized. - Wife walks in and says, "Just install Windows, please." I know my experience may be unique, but "Just Works" has never been the case for me. I love the concept and ideology of the Linux desktop, but I always end up spending more time editing config files and tearing my hair out than I do actually working. That being said, I'm glad it works well for some of us...

dman 10y ago

As an avid Linux user I used to be troubled by people claiming the utter unusability of Linux as a productive desktop environment. The thing that brought me some peace was the realization that a lot of the users that complain about desktop linux being broken want the computing equivalent of a Toyota Camry - something that takes them from point A to point B with a minimum of fuss. I would like to think of the Linux desktop environment as being closer to a Miata - something fun and enjoyable for those that are willing to accept different tradeoffs and enjoy being closer to the road.

levlaz 10y ago
> I would like to think of the Linux desktop environment as being closer to a Miata - something fun and enjoyable for those that are willing to accept different tradeoffs and enjoy being closer to the road. I really like this analogy.

BrandoElFollito 10y ago

I am a Linux fan since ca. 1993. Yesterday I tried once again to give a chance to ubuntu desktop on my dual boot Lenovo P50 with a docking station and two screens. Complete failure, the screens were not recognized, the cursor was leaving a trace, etc. A complete failure. So while Linux as a server is a dream came true, I will stick to Windows as my desktop OS.

deleted 10y ago

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